FreshFish Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 the title says it all...What next? Should the rep party move more toward the 'Center'? Abandon Social Conservative issues? Reach out to Hispanics? Maintain the status quo? discuss.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 They have to reach out to more voters - they can't continue being an undiverse party. And they have to stop being so extremist on the social issues and such war hawks. I think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters still, but I think people are tired of the politicis of division and fear. So, in sum, become more liberal on the social issues, stop trying to divide people, and stop being so hawkish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I don't think social issues played a role in this election. Fiscal policy is what wounded the GOP. They need to stand firm for balanced budgets and reduced government spending and against entitlement programs. In other words, they need to move to the right on fiscal policy. They also need to be pro business which means being pro job creation. McCain sounded like a Democrat every time he railed against "corporate greed' in Wall Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 I believe they need to reach out to Hispanics, a minority which is going to grow exponentially during the next decade. Most of Hispanics tend to be moderate conservatives. How do you reach them, without pissing off the anti-immigration hawks of the right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Yeah, I would expect that the only real one-issue voters would be the pro-life crowd. Many religious institutions would endorse McCain on that facet alone. However, arguably these were the voters that prevented a total blowout. I believe the GOP must be realistic about this. And run on a platform of reducing abortion, rather than overturning it. The next administration will probably move further left on abortion issues, which most pro-choice people will probably be against it. I also believe that the religious right must treat this issue differently, they must educate and stop condemning. They would be more successful that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee Ball Bunt Machine Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 The GOP needs to decide what it wants to be, and I hope that isn't moving more towards the socialism that is acceptable at the apparent "center". It has to decide whether it's going to be for big government that enforces "traditional" values with the force of government, solves all our problems, and makes us moral and for a foreign policy of "getting those evil-doers" or whether it will be a party for small government, maximum liberty, and recognizing that we cannot (and should not) run the world. Because the illusion that those two philosophies can coexist under that "big tent" is dead. I would honestly be happy to see the GOP fall apart completely and open the way for another party (or two) to replace them if the GOP doesn't redefine itself as giving more than lip service to the philosophy of liberty and small government. I believe they need to reach out to Hispanics, a minority which is going to grow exponentially during the next decade. Most of Hispanics tend to be moderate conservatives. How do you reach them, without pissing off the anti-immigration hawks of the right? I agree, and I would say that the answer is to educate those "hawks" to the fact that their problems aren't being caused by immigrants, and that immigrant workers area scapegoat. Of course, I suppose there is a problem that it is mainly GOP officials in government that have made them scapegoats for the failures of government. Yeah, I would expect that the only real one-issue voters would be the pro-life crowd. Many religious institutions would endorse McCain on that facet alone. However, arguably these were the voters that prevented a total blowout. I believe the GOP must be realistic about this. And run on a platform of reducing abortion, rather than overturning it. The next administration will probably move further left on abortion issues, which most pro-choice people will probably be against it. I also believe that the religious right must treat this issue differently, they must educate and stop condemning. They would be more successful that way. There is a better way to deal with abortion, but simply accepting that it is going to be legal to kill a baby that might already be capable of surviving outside of the womb isn't it. I'm willing to argue that many of the "social ills" that "conservatives" argue against and want to prohibit are no one's business and should be legal, but abortion isn't one of those. Unless you believe that a child doesn't become a living human being until they come out of the womb (and I don't) then you acknowledge that at least some abortions are murder, and that is something that should be condemned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Good thread. As previously mentioned in this thread I think fiscal conservatism still appeals to a lot of people. As far as social issues, I think taking the stance of "we are government, this is not our business" would also resonate with the people. It's honest and let's people make choices. Low taxes, conservative spending and let people make their own choices should be the campaign they run starting in 2010... I also don't believe Obama will be tough to beat in four years, McCain was an absolutely horrible candidate to run against him and he had such an uphill battle as being labeled Bush 2. Obama won't be able to use the Bush 2 line in four years. Bobby Jindal would be interesting and I wonder if the republicans have any Latins they could build and hype up like the dems did with Obama? You're right that could help a lot to energize that base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I believe they need to reach out to Hispanics, a minority which is going to grow exponentially during the next decade. Most of Hispanics tend to be moderate conservatives. How do you reach them, without pissing off the anti-immigration hawks of the right? I think the ceding of core positions to try to reach certain groups is a losing proposition. If Hispanics stand for conservarive principles then welcome them. If they don't, then don't move to the left to bring them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industrialescampeon Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Good thread. As previously mentioned in this thread I think fiscal conservatism still appeals to a lot of people. As far as social issues, I think taking the stance of "we are government, this is not our business" would also resonate with the people. It's honest and let's people make choices. Low taxes, conservative spending and let people make their own choices should be the campaign they run starting in 2010... I also don't believe Obama will be tough to beat in four years, McCain was an absolutely horrible candidate to run against him and he had such an uphill battle as being labeled Bush 2. Obama won't be able to use the Bush 2 line in four years. Bobby Jindal would be interesting and I wonder if the republicans have any Latins they could build and hype up like the dems did with Obama? You're right that could help a lot to energize that base. Although I agree with this statement, we must remember that until the economic crisis in September, McCain still had a shot. And some people would even argue that he could've won the election. Now it all depends on what Obama he accomplishes (or doesn't) that will count in the next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee Ball Bunt Machine Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I'll agree that McCain seemed like the absolute worst candidate to me from the very beginning of the primaries, and it really does make me wonder if its not being too much of a conspiracy nut to believe that they really wanted to lose this year, because I felt exactly the same with Kerry, that out of him, Dean, Edwards, & Clark, that Kerry was the absolute worst choice to oppose Bush and the surest to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Good thread. As previously mentioned in this thread I think fiscal conservatism still appeals to a lot of people. As far as social issues, I think taking the stance of "we are government, this is not our business" would also resonate with the people. It's honest and let's people make choices. Low taxes, conservative spending and let people make their own choices should be the campaign they run starting in 2010... I also don't believe Obama will be tough to beat in four years, McCain was an absolutely horrible candidate to run against him and he had such an uphill battle as being labeled Bush 2. Obama won't be able to use the Bush 2 line in four years. Bobby Jindal would be interesting and I wonder if the republicans have any Latins they could build and hype up like the dems did with Obama? You're right that could help a lot to energize that base. Although I agree with this statement, we must remember that until the economic crisis in September, McCain still had a shot. And some people would even argue that he could've won the election. Now it all depends on what Obama he accomplishes (or doesn't) that will count in the next election. This is true and one of the reasons why I think Obama will be pretty easy to beat in four years. Despite the big numbers last night I still don't believe Obama has that popularity for the reason you mentioned above and also in the primaries he didn't win NY, CA, Fl, Ohio, Mi, etc..... He won because he ran on a platform of 'I AM NOT BUSH, HE IS' and did a great job of hammering that point during the whole election. He won't have that in four years unless the republicans nominate Jeb, :lol ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 One good thing about Obama is that I think by being elected he changed the political landscape, in the sense that you will see more younger/fresh candidates willing to buck the trend. I think a Bobby Jindal running on traditional fiscal conservative values would be very appealing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 He won because he ran on a platform of 'I AM NOT BUSH, HE IS' and did a great job of hammering that point during the whole election. He won't have that in four years unless the republicans nominate Jeb, :lol ! this picture says it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 They have to reach out to more voters - they can't continue being an undiverse party. And they have to stop being so extremist on the social issues and such war hawks. I think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters still, but I think people are tired of the politicis of division and fear. So, in sum, become more liberal on the social issues, stop trying to divide people, and stop being so hawkish. The major social issues are abortion and same-sex marriage. I think the country is pretty much split 50-50 on these issues and probaly leans a but to the right if anything. The country leans a bit to the left on abortion and a bit more than that to the right on same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage amendments passed in California and Florida and California is one of the most left leaning states. In Florida even in Broward county which is as liberal a place as you'll find the amendment got over 50%. The GOP's problems are not caused by social issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 They have to reach out to more voters - they can't continue being an undiverse party. And they have to stop being so extremist on the social issues and such war hawks. I think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters still, but I think people are tired of the politicis of division and fear. So, in sum, become more liberal on the social issues, stop trying to divide people, and stop being so hawkish. The major social issues are abortion and same-sex marriage. I think the country is pretty much split 50-50 on these issues and probaly leans a but to the right if anything. The country leans a bit to the left on abortion and a bit more than that to the right on same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage amendments passed in California and Florida and California is one of the most left leaning states. In Florida even in Broward county which is as liberal a place as you'll find the amendment got over 50%. The GOP's problems are not caused by social issues. The Republican party is on its death bed. As soon as the under 35 crowd becomes the 35-60 crowd (10-15 years) and constitutes a much bigger proportion of total voters, this country will no longer lean to the right on social issues. Obama won the under 35 vote about 65-30. The vast majority of under 35's are Democrats. If the Republican party hopes to be around in 15 years as a legitimate political party, it's got to start moving to the left on the social issues. I think the question was aimed towards what the Republican party should do in the next 10, 15, 20 years. I think the Republican party as it currently stands is gone for good. I also think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters, both young and old, so I think they're good with that. If you think the Republican party can survive on their current social and cultural platforms as the under 35 crowd ages, you're sadly mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Good thread. As previously mentioned in this thread I think fiscal conservatism still appeals to a lot of people. As far as social issues, I think taking the stance of "we are government, this is not our business" would also resonate with the people. It's honest and let's people make choices. Low taxes, conservative spending and let people make their own choices should be the campaign they run starting in 2010... I also don't believe Obama will be tough to beat in four years, McCain was an absolutely horrible candidate to run against him and he had such an uphill battle as being labeled Bush 2. Obama won't be able to use the Bush 2 line in four years. Bobby Jindal would be interesting and I wonder if the republicans have any Latins they could build and hype up like the dems did with Obama? You're right that could help a lot to energize that base. I don't think it makes sense to look that far into the future. You have no idea how he will perform as president or what things could come up. If he's considered a good president by a majority of Americans, he'll win re-election, just like any other incumbent president who has over 50% approval. Obama's performance as POTUS will determine how difficult it will be to defeat him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 They have to reach out to more voters - they can't continue being an undiverse party. And they have to stop being so extremist on the social issues and such war hawks. I think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters still, but I think people are tired of the politicis of division and fear. So, in sum, become more liberal on the social issues, stop trying to divide people, and stop being so hawkish. The major social issues are abortion and same-sex marriage. I think the country is pretty much split 50-50 on these issues and probaly leans a but to the right if anything. The country leans a bit to the left on abortion and a bit more than that to the right on same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage amendments passed in California and Florida and California is one of the most left leaning states. In Florida even in Broward county which is as liberal a place as you'll find the amendment got over 50%. The GOP's problems are not caused by social issues. The Republican party is on its death bed. As soon as the under 35 crowd becomes the 35-60 crowd (10-15 years) and constitutes a much bigger proportion of total voters, this country will no longer lean to the right on social issues. Obama won the under 35 vote about 65-30. The vast majority of under 35's are Democrats. If the Republican party hopes to be around in 15 years as a legitimate political party, it's got to start moving to the left on the social issues. I think the question was aimed towards what the Republican party should do in the next 10, 15, 20 years. I think the Republican party as it currently stands is gone for good. I also think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters, both young and old, so I think they're good with that. If you think the Republican party can survive on their current social and cultural platforms as the under 35 crowd ages, you're sadly mistaken. Define social conservatism...btw, I believe that this term is a moving target and not a hard and fast theme. What are the main issues? btw..I believe that the Religious right should be less militant in the political arena, and stick to what they are called to do..which is spreading the gospel, feeding the needy and social programs outside the Government. I'm an Evangelical, and I cringe every time I see a religious 'leader' endocing a candidate. I think it is more counterproductive and it doesn't help. Most of us are not like that, and we have the brains to pick a candidate on our own. However, we need to have the ability and liberty to be loud and clear on certain issues (but that should be the exeption) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out of the Past Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 They have to reach out to more voters - they can't continue being an undiverse party. And they have to stop being so extremist on the social issues and such war hawks. I think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters still, but I think people are tired of the politicis of division and fear. So, in sum, become more liberal on the social issues, stop trying to divide people, and stop being so hawkish. The major social issues are abortion and same-sex marriage. I think the country is pretty much split 50-50 on these issues and probaly leans a but to the right if anything. The country leans a bit to the left on abortion and a bit more than that to the right on same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage amendments passed in California and Florida and California is one of the most left leaning states. In Florida even in Broward county which is as liberal a place as you'll find the amendment got over 50%. The GOP's problems are not caused by social issues. The Republican party is on its death bed. As soon as the under 35 crowd becomes the 35-60 crowd (10-15 years) and constitutes a much bigger proportion of total voters, this country will no longer lean to the right on social issues. Obama won the under 35 vote about 65-30. The vast majority of under 35's are Democrats. If the Republican party hopes to be around in 15 years as a legitimate political party, it's got to start moving to the left on the social issues. I think the question was aimed towards what the Republican party should do in the next 10, 15, 20 years. I think the Republican party as it currently stands is gone for good. I also think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters, both young and old, so I think they're good with that. If you think the Republican party can survive on their current social and cultural platforms as the under 35 crowd ages, you're sadly mistaken. I don't know how young voters stand on the social issues but as I said before the social issues played no part in this election. The fact that young voters supported Obama means very little in determining where they'll be as they age because young voters tend to drift towards the GOP as they grow older and their family responsabilities increase. It's easy to favor entitlement programs when the funding of those progranms doesn't impact you but it's another thing to support those entitlements when their funding takes money away from your money that you would rather spend on your kids or on a bigegr house or your retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iowa Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Death bed? Last I saw 49 percent of the people in the US didn't vote for Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Death bed? Last I saw 49 percent of the people in the US didn't vote for Obama. 46 percent And Republicans got trounced in the Congressional and Senate races. For the first time maybe ever, New England doesn't have a single Republican Congressman. It's core is in the South. It's becoming a regional party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 They have to reach out to more voters - they can't continue being an undiverse party. And they have to stop being so extremist on the social issues and such war hawks. I think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters still, but I think people are tired of the politicis of division and fear. So, in sum, become more liberal on the social issues, stop trying to divide people, and stop being so hawkish. The major social issues are abortion and same-sex marriage. I think the country is pretty much split 50-50 on these issues and probaly leans a but to the right if anything. The country leans a bit to the left on abortion and a bit more than that to the right on same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage amendments passed in California and Florida and California is one of the most left leaning states. In Florida even in Broward county which is as liberal a place as you'll find the amendment got over 50%. The GOP's problems are not caused by social issues. The Republican party is on its death bed. As soon as the under 35 crowd becomes the 35-60 crowd (10-15 years) and constitutes a much bigger proportion of total voters, this country will no longer lean to the right on social issues. Obama won the under 35 vote about 65-30. The vast majority of under 35's are Democrats. If the Republican party hopes to be around in 15 years as a legitimate political party, it's got to start moving to the left on the social issues. I think the question was aimed towards what the Republican party should do in the next 10, 15, 20 years. I think the Republican party as it currently stands is gone for good. I also think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters, both young and old, so I think they're good with that. If you think the Republican party can survive on their current social and cultural platforms as the under 35 crowd ages, you're sadly mistaken. I don't know how young voters stand on the social issues but as I said before the social issues played no part in this election. The fact that young voters supported Obama means very little in determining where they'll be as they age because young voters tend to drift towards the GOP as they grow older and their family responsabilities increase. It's easy to favor entitlement programs when the funding of those progranms doesn't impact you but it's another thing to support those entitlements when their funding takes money away from your money that you would rather spend on your kids or on a bigegr house or your retirement. Empirical evidence shows that the way people vote in their first few elections is how they end up voting most of their lives. The core political beliefs are generally developed before the age of 35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Death bed? Last I saw 49 percent of the people in the US didn't vote for Obama. 46 percent And Republicans got trounced in the Congressional and Senate races. For the first time maybe ever, New England doesn't have a single Republican Congressman. It's core is in the South. It's becoming a regional party. You know that most (if not all) of NE Cong Republicans that lost were moderates? That tells you that moving to the center, may not be the answer. This election was a total repudiation of Bush, not a repudiation of Conservative ideals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prinmemito Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 They have to reach out to more voters - they can't continue being an undiverse party. And they have to stop being so extremist on the social issues and such war hawks. I think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters still, but I think people are tired of the politicis of division and fear. So, in sum, become more liberal on the social issues, stop trying to divide people, and stop being so hawkish. The major social issues are abortion and same-sex marriage. I think the country is pretty much split 50-50 on these issues and probaly leans a but to the right if anything. The country leans a bit to the left on abortion and a bit more than that to the right on same-sex marriage. Same-sex marriage amendments passed in California and Florida and California is one of the most left leaning states. In Florida even in Broward county which is as liberal a place as you'll find the amendment got over 50%. The GOP's problems are not caused by social issues. The Republican party is on its death bed. As soon as the under 35 crowd becomes the 35-60 crowd (10-15 years) and constitutes a much bigger proportion of total voters, this country will no longer lean to the right on social issues. Obama won the under 35 vote about 65-30. The vast majority of under 35's are Democrats. If the Republican party hopes to be around in 15 years as a legitimate political party, it's got to start moving to the left on the social issues. I think the question was aimed towards what the Republican party should do in the next 10, 15, 20 years. I think the Republican party as it currently stands is gone for good. I also think fiscal conservatism appeals to a lot of voters, both young and old, so I think they're good with that. If you think the Republican party can survive on their current social and cultural platforms as the under 35 crowd ages, you're sadly mistaken. Define social conservatism...btw, I believe that this term is a moving target and not a hard and fast theme. What are the main issues? btw..I believe that the Religious right should be less militant in the political arena, and stick to what they are called to do..which is spreading the gospel, feeding the needy and social programs outside the Government. I'm an Evangelical, and I cringe every time I see a religious 'leader' endocing a candidate. I think it is more counterproductive and it doesn't help. Most of us are not like that, and we have the brains to pick a candidate on our own. However, we need to have the ability and liberty to be loud and clear on certain issues (but that should be the exeption) Your approach is what I think the Republican party should take. I think they would be a lot more successful if they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Rays Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 The Republican party is on its death bed. People said that about the Democratic Party after 2002 and 2004. :mischief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Death bed? Last I saw 49 percent of the people in the US didn't vote for Obama. 46 percent And Republicans got trounced in the Congressional and Senate races. For the first time maybe ever, New England doesn't have a single Republican Congressman. It's core is in the South. It's becoming a regional party. You know that most (if not all) of NE Cong Republicans that lost were moderates? That tells you that moving to the center, may not be the answer. This election was a total repudiation of Bush, not a repudiation of Conservative ideals I don ?t know about you, but I am impatient with those Republicans who after the last election rushed into print saying, ?We must broaden the base of our party??when what they meant was to fuzz up and blur even more the differences between ourselves and our opponents. A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers. I do not believe I have proposed anything that is contrary to what has been considered Republican principle. It is at the same time the very basis of conservatism. It is time to reassert that principle and raise it to full view. And if there are those who cannot subscribe to these principles, then let them go their way.- Ronald Regan I think there is a lot of truth to that. I hope the Rep party doesn't redefine itself in a way that lose their identity and core values in order to 'broaden' their appeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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