By Alex Spillius in Washington

Last Updated: 6:15AM GMT 15 Jan 2009

 

The move is expected to be among a series of symbolic changes he will push through quickly to stamp his mark on the presidency.

 

He is also expected to reverse several controversial executive Bush decisions within days of taking office next week.

 

Mr Obama has committed to closing the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay and will formally ban all interrogative techniques that could be described as torture, such as waterboarding.

 

It is expected that he will also reverse Mr Bush's orders restricting the distribution of funds for stem cell research and to overseas groups that offer abortion counselling.

 

The change of policy on homosexuality will allow gays to serve openly in all branches of the armed forces.

 

Though a timeline was not put on the reversal of the policy, Robert Gibbs, who becomes Mr Obama's press secretary next week, was unequivocal that it would happen.

 

When questioned about whether the policy would change on the Obama transition website, he wrote: "You don't hear politicians give a one-word answer much. But it's 'Yes'."

 

Mr Obama opposed the policy during the campaign, but since his election has made statements that gay pressure groups interpreted as lukewarm commitments.

 

The issue became a distraction in the early days of Bill Clinton's presidency. He tried to push through reform that would have allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly but had to compromise with the "don't ask, don't tell" solution, which has been maintained by the Bush administration.

 

Although introduced before he came to power, Mr Bush's refusal to change the "don't ask, don't tell" policy angered many in America.

 

There is now however much wider public support for removing any restrictions on male and female gay personnel. Colin Powell, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is among influential figures who have called for the policy to be re-evaluated.

 

During his campaign Mr Obama often spoke out against what he called Bush's abuse of executive authority.

 

"I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president, I actually respect the Constitution," he said in 2007.

 

Russ Feingold, the Democratic Senator for Wisconsin, a strong critic of Mr Bush?s accumulation of executive power, said he had been informed by Mr Obama?s transition staff the records of past presidents might also be made more available.

 

He said the incoming president would support a bill he is proposing to make public some opinions from the Justice Department?s Office of Legal Counsel, which issued some of the most controversial extensions of presidential power in the Bush era.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...wards-gays.html

Best news I've heard all day. :thumbup

I understand the idea of letting them openly serve, but I wonder how well it will go over when they are going through basic, or they are shipped off for 180 days with not-so-tolerant men and women in their company.

I'm fine with this. I think Barry Goldwater said something on this subject to the effect of "I don't care whether or not they're straight, so long as they can shoot straight." As long as the same military code of conduct is enforced, I don't think it would be a problem.

Now we need to rehire those Arabic translators who were fired for violating this 'law'.

This will cause a drop in recruitment

I'd rather have moral troops than the schoolyard bully in my army. Then maybe we wouldn't see as many Gitmos or Abu Ghraibs.

This will cause a drop in recruitment

Yeah, because deploying into a quagmire is better than bunking next to a gay guy??

This will cause a drop in recruitment

 

The past 6-8 years of my life have been involved in the military in one capacity or another (recruiting, ROTC, working with people from the pentagon, retired officers, etc) and I can say I don't think so at all... at worst it'll be neutral as people don't come back because they don't like it and the gay people that become comfortable return...

 

I can say this, too, nobody in the military typically likes change of any kind... sans pay raises

I was in the military myself. Served in the Navy so you could imagine. I served aboard the USS Coral Sea CV-43 (old aircraft carrier no longer in service) During my service it was quite obvious at times you knew who the gay men were and others were still in the closet. Regardless it did not bother me because I didn't care. The people it seemed to bother the most were not the military men but their spouses.

 

I only had one incident and I flat out told him I didn't swing d__k. Did I report him no. He reacted good to it, even laughed about it and we never had another incident. We understood each others ground and moved on, heck we even had drinks together so no I am not a homophobe.

 

To FutureGM please continue reading your hate the US books and listening to your college professors you are doing just fine.

I was in the military myself. Served in the Navy so you could imagine. I served aboard the USS Coral Sea CV-43 (old aircraft carrier no longer in service) During my service it was quite obvious at times you knew who the gay men were and others were still in the closet. Regardless it did not bother me because I didn't care. The people it seemed to bother the most were not the military men but their spouses.

 

I only had one incident and I flat out told him I didn't swing d__k. Did I report him no. He reacted good to it, even laughed about it and we never had another incident. We understood each others ground and moved on, heck we even had drinks together so no I am not a homophobe.

 

To FutureGM please continue reading your hate the US books and listening to your college professors you are doing just fine.

 

That pretty much contradicts your assertion that there'd be a drop in recruitment...

 

Also, FutureGM hasn't said anything in here that amounts to "hating the US"

To FutureGM please continue reading your hate the US books and listening to your college professors you are doing just fine.

Thanks for the random insult! I appreciate it!

I was in the military myself. Served in the Navy so you could imagine. I served aboard the USS Coral Sea CV-43 (old aircraft carrier no longer in service) During my service it was quite obvious at times you knew who the gay men were and others were still in the closet. Regardless it did not bother me because I didn't care. The people it seemed to bother the most were not the military men but their spouses.

 

I only had one incident and I flat out told him I didn't swing d__k. Did I report him no. He reacted good to it, even laughed about it and we never had another incident. We understood each others ground and moved on, heck we even had drinks together so no I am not a homophobe.

 

To FutureGM please continue reading your hate the US books and listening to your college professors you are doing just fine.

I was with you right up until that last line.

 

Everyone knows that you learn to hate the US from free pamphlets, not books.

This will cause a drop in recruitment

 

The past 6-8 years of my life have been involved in the military in one capacity or another (recruiting, ROTC, working with people from the pentagon, retired officers, etc) and I can say I don't think so at all... at worst it'll be neutral as people don't come back because they don't like it and the gay people that become comfortable return...

 

I can say this, too, nobody in the military typically likes change of any kind... sans pay raises

According to a recent Military Times poll about 1 in 4 members of the military would have problems with the overturning of don't ask don't tell. That's pretty high.

 

http://tank.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDV...NDAxNjJmMDFhOGE=

I want our military and intelligence services to have the BEST people serving, regardless of sex, race, sexual identity, political affiliation, religion (or no religion), etc.

I was in the military myself. Served in the Navy so you could imagine. I served aboard the USS Coral Sea CV-43 (old aircraft carrier no longer in service) During my service it was quite obvious at times you knew who the gay men were and others were still in the closet. Regardless it did not bother me because I didn't care. The people it seemed to bother the most were not the military men but their spouses.

 

I only had one incident and I flat out told him I didn't swing d__k. Did I report him no. He reacted good to it, even laughed about it and we never had another incident. We understood each others ground and moved on, heck we even had drinks together so no I am not a homophobe.

 

To FutureGM please continue reading your hate the US books and listening to your college professors you are doing just fine.

 

That pretty much contradicts your assertion that there'd be a drop in recruitment...

 

Also, FutureGM hasn't said anything in here that amounts to "hating the US"

 

Hey I said there will be a drop in recruitment. Did I say it was going to be from the service men?

 

Learn to read, your to quick on your assertion of contradiction.

 

Your right FutureGM has said nothing of hate in this blog, but I do read most of his other posts and it's usually the same rhetoric and propaganda.

This will cause a drop in recruitment

 

The past 6-8 years of my life have been involved in the military in one capacity or another (recruiting, ROTC, working with people from the pentagon, retired officers, etc) and I can say I don't think so at all... at worst it'll be neutral as people don't come back because they don't like it and the gay people that become comfortable return...

 

I can say this, too, nobody in the military typically likes change of any kind... sans pay raises

According to a recent Military Times poll about 1 in 4 members of the military would have problems with the overturning of don't ask don't tell. That's pretty high.

 

http://tank.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDV...NDAxNjJmMDFhOGE=http://tank.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDV...NDAxNjJmMDFhOGE

 

(The page doesn't seem to load for me, so I'm going to just assume it basically says exactly what you did)

 

Again... most people in the military say they resist change of most kinds and don't like a lot of things. This will not hurt recruitment. You know what else military people don't like? Boot Camp... or being deployed thousands of miles away from their families for years... or fighting wars that they disagree with politically or any number of things... and I'm willing to bet those three are higher than 1/4 if you ask candidly.

 

The fact is, they may not like it... but THIS won't be the reason they don't re-enlist and THIS won't be the reason people don't enlist to begin with.

 

However, for those so against this that they wouldn't join... good, absolutely. I do not want those individuals representing me in my country's military. The backbone of the military is honor, tradition and character, and having blatant homophobia prevent you from enlisting is in direct affront to 2/3 of those. Nobody's saying the overturning of DaDt is going to force new recruits to "go gay"... Also, I'm willing to bet that someone outwardly intolerant of one group would be intolerant of another... which runs of the risks of Abu Ghraib's and such

 

Now, I'm not "going off" on you Poloa... you just provided some info... this is all just "out there" stuff of my take on things.

 

Hey I said there will be a drop in recruitment. Did I say it was going to be from the service men?

 

Learn to read, your to quick on your assertion of contradiction.

 

Your right FutureGM has said nothing of hate in this blog, but I do read most of his other posts and it's usually the same rhetoric and propaganda.

 

Then call him for what you believe is "rhetoric and propaganda" where you actually see it. Else it's just being petty.

 

If it's from the non servicemen and women, then it doesn't really matter, it's absolutely ignorant and uninformed to believe there aren't currently gays in the military. How will people that, I'm guessing you're suggesting haven't joined yet, going to assume that gays, who are a minority to begin with are suddenly going to "take over" the military.

 

This is highly similar to when African-Americans were introduced into our services. A lot of people didn't like it... a lot of people thought it'd hurt recruitment... yada yada. In the long run... this move will probably do as much good for people, in uniform and not, as that one did.

I want our military and intelligence services to have the BEST people serving, regardless of sex, race, sexual identity, political affiliation, religion (or no religion), etc.

mr. pc!

 

the new proper term is sexual affinity.

This will cause a drop in recruitment

 

The past 6-8 years of my life have been involved in the military in one capacity or another (recruiting, ROTC, working with people from the pentagon, retired officers, etc) and I can say I don't think so at all... at worst it'll be neutral as people don't come back because they don't like it and the gay people that become comfortable return...

 

I can say this, too, nobody in the military typically likes change of any kind... sans pay raises

According to a recent Military Times poll about 1 in 4 members of the military would have problems with the overturning of don't ask don't tell. That's pretty high.

 

http://tank.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDV...NDAxNjJmMDFhOGE=http://tank.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDV...NDAxNjJmMDFhOGE

 

(The page doesn't seem to load for me, so I'm going to just assume it basically says exactly what you did)

 

Again... most people in the military say they resist change of most kinds and don't like a lot of things. This will not hurt recruitment. You know what else military people don't like? Boot Camp... or being deployed thousands of miles away from their families for years... or fighting wars that they disagree with politically or any number of things... and I'm willing to bet those three are higher than 1/4 if you ask candidly.

 

The fact is, they may not like it... but THIS won't be the reason they don't re-enlist and THIS won't be the reason people don't enlist to begin with.

According to the article 10% said they would not re-enlist and 14% said they would consider not re-enlisting. I assume they meant what they said when they voted. They did not poll potential recruits but my guess is the "hit" on potential recruits would be similar to the "hit" on re-enlistments. If you need to go off on someone pick someone else as I don't have an opinion on this one way or the other. All I'm doing is adding some facts.

According to the article 10% said they would not re-enlist and 14% said they would consider not re-enlisting. I assume they meant what they said when they voted. They did not poll potential recruits but my guess is the "hit" on potential recruits would be similar to the "hit" on re-enlistments. If you need to go off on someone pick someone else as I don't have an opinion on this one way or the other. All I'm doing is adding some facts.

 

 

Now, I'm not "going off" on you Poloa... you just provided some info... this is all just "out there" stuff of my take on things.

 

:blink:

 

That's what I said

 

Also, I know it's polled saying 10/14%... but I have an extremely strong feeling that that's inaccurate because I don't believe they'll wind up leaving for one reason or another and it comes down to them just not liking them

I don't think I really trust a poll by Military Times unless I actually read the specific study and find some merit in how it was conducted. In an a priori sense I wouldn't expect this to be the dominating force behind dwindling recruitments. I would be looking at the nagging two battlefronts in the Middle East and the hopeless escalation of one of those two (Afghanistan).

 

This was more or less my train of thought, in line with my experience(s)

you guys do know that Military Times poll only polled its subscribers right?

obamas probably gonna do what truman did and use Executive Order to let gays in and very few people in the military will give a damn

That's why I didn't give it much credence.

wasnt talkin bout just you

I've always looked at this policy as a positive things, sorta like a "we don't care, we don't want to know, your sexuality makes absolutely no difference to how well you may or may not fight so keep it the F out of the army" thing. Not sure why it's a bad law that needs to be overturned, sexuality of any form should have absolutely nothing to do with the armed forces and shouldn't make one lick of difference either way.

 

So what happens now? Do the gays start flocking to the military in masses openly declaring their homosexuality in boot camps??? I don't think so! So where's the problem? I guess it makes a difference if someone can get discharged from the military for coming out of the closet to their fellow troops, but then again I think that absolutely could possibly be an awkward situation when you are bunked with all men. It might be something that is better kept private and like baldeagle mentioned, the other soldiers probably already have an inkling as to who may be gay, and I'd imagine some sort of self policing goes on but if they were allowed to flaunt their sexuality in such tight quarters...i don't know...

 

 

tricky subject.

I've always looked at this policy as a positive things, sorta like a "we don't care, we don't want to know, your sexuality makes absolutely no difference to how well you may or may not fight so keep it the F out of the army" thing. Not sure why it's a bad law that needs to be overturned, sexuality of any form should have absolutely nothing to do with the armed forces and shouldn't make one lick of difference either way.

 

So what happens now? Do the gays start flocking to the military in masses openly declaring their homosexuality in boot camps??? I don't think so! So where's the problem? I guess it makes a difference if someone can get discharged from the military for coming out of the closet to their fellow troops, but then again I think that absolutely could possibly be an awkward situation when you are bunked with all men. It might be something that is better kept private and like baldeagle mentioned, the other soldiers probably already have an inkling as to who may be gay, and I'd imagine some sort of self policing goes on but if they were allowed to flaunt their sexuality in such tight quarters...i don't know...

 

 

tricky subject.

 

Who said that'd be the case... I don't think that's what would happen at all, you alluded to the fact that they could no longer be kicked out for just being homosexual, that's the important thing.

 

How would you like to work in an office and run the risk of being fired because you're a Marlins fan. You can be a Marlins fan, but you can't talk about the Marlins. You can make fun of the payroll/attendance issues, but if you wear a Hanley jersey, you're fired with no recourse. Now, the new CEO overturns this... this doesn't mean you're gonna be all Marlins 24/7 or that you'll wear Marlins paraphernalia every day... just that what you do after work no longer has an impact on the job.

 

It's hardly tricky, I mean, you're right, there is policing and such but it's not like homosexual soldiers are gonna wear rainbow BDUs or anything like that. Plus, there are uniform standards regarding PDA, heterosexual or otherwise... this is almost strictly regarding the private lives of individuals, something that should have zero bearing on the job anyways. There's a certain standard all (or I guess most) soldiers live up to, a standard of professionalism.