July 8, 200917 yr Our bullpen ERA ranks 13th in the NL. That's a problem. Wrong. Highly inflated from Lindstrom's meltdowns, Penn, Kensing, C. Martinez, Leroux, and Davidson. Those last five have thrown 42.1 innings with 43 ERA. Even leaving Lindstrom in who has been horrible, you take out those 5 guys and the bullpen era jumps to 3.15 on the season. That is the best bullpen era in baseball. Boston is the current leader at 3.18. This isn't cherry picking. This is just our bullpen once you take out the absolute assholes who completely destroyed it. Leo Nunez 36 IP, 3.75 era, 1.22 whip, 34 K Great Dan Meyer 33.1 IP, 1.89 era, .87 whip, 32 K Amazing Kiko Calero 31.1 IP, 2.01 era, 1.15 whip, 39 K Amazing Reynel Pinto 29 IP, 3.10 era, 1.55 whip, 27 K Acceptable Brian Sanches 19.2 IP, 3.69 era, 1.39 whip, 18 K Solid Burke Badenhop 39 IP, 3.68 era, 1.36 whip, 26 K Solid and we'll figure out from Lindstrom, Ayala, Donnelly, Williamson, Wood, Vanden Hurk etc., something We don't need more RP. Adding AAA depth is always welcome and I encourage it, but saying our bullpen era is indicative of what we have is completely wrong. It is highly skewed from absolutely insane performances by a handful of guys not on the team. Couldn't the same thing be said for any team though? If you take out a handful of relievers from each team, all of their ERAs would lower drastically. We have a solid long relief pitcher in Badenhop, and then three relatively trustworthy relievers in Nunez, Calero, and Meyer. Pinto has had an average year and an average career at best, Sanches is a minor league journeyman, and most of our other options aren't proven reliable relievers. I'm not saying that we need a proven reliever more than a bat, but our bullpen should be improved and should be one of the top priorities. He's not taking out a handful of relievers to lower the ERA, he's taking out the people who aren't in our bullpen anymore to give an accurate portrayal of our current bullpen. I understand. Even so, if you take the current bullpen for each team in the MLB, I doubt we would even be close to the best bullpen ERA in the MLB. That's probably true, but clearly better than what our overall ERA would say.
July 8, 200917 yr Our bullpen ERA ranks 13th in the NL. That's a problem. Wrong. Highly inflated from Lindstrom's meltdowns, Penn, Kensing, C. Martinez, Leroux, and Davidson. Those last five have thrown 42.1 innings with 43 ERA. Even leaving Lindstrom in who has been horrible, you take out those 5 guys and the bullpen era jumps to 3.15 on the season. That is the best bullpen era in baseball. Boston is the current leader at 3.18. This isn't cherry picking. This is just our bullpen once you take out the absolute assholes who completely destroyed it. Leo Nunez 36 IP, 3.75 era, 1.22 whip, 34 K Great Dan Meyer 33.1 IP, 1.89 era, .87 whip, 32 K Amazing Kiko Calero 31.1 IP, 2.01 era, 1.15 whip, 39 K Amazing Reynel Pinto 29 IP, 3.10 era, 1.55 whip, 27 K Acceptable Brian Sanches 19.2 IP, 3.69 era, 1.39 whip, 18 K Solid Burke Badenhop 39 IP, 3.68 era, 1.36 whip, 26 K Solid and we'll figure out from Lindstrom, Ayala, Donnelly, Williamson, Wood, Vanden Hurk etc., something We don't need more RP. Adding AAA depth is always welcome and I encourage it, but saying our bullpen era is indicative of what we have is completely wrong. It is highly skewed from absolutely insane performances by a handful of guys not on the team. Couldn't the same thing be said for any team though? If you take out a handful of relievers from each team, all of their ERAs would lower drastically. We have a solid long relief pitcher in Badenhop, and then three relatively trustworthy relievers in Nunez, Calero, and Meyer. Pinto has had an average year and an average career at best, Sanches is a minor league journeyman, and most of our other options aren't proven reliable relievers. I'm not saying that we need a proven reliever more than a bat, but our bullpen should be improved and should be one of the top priorities. He's not taking out a handful of relievers to lower the ERA, he's taking out the people who aren't in our bullpen anymore to give an accurate portrayal of our current bullpen. I understand. Even so, if you take the current bullpen for each team in the MLB, I doubt we would even be close to the best bullpen ERA in the MLB. I bet the Marlins would be in the top half, but I have nowhere near the time to do that. Our bullpen is pretty good. We've weeded out the jerks at this point in the season. The point is we have plenty of bullpen depth. The largest problem on the team is a starting 3B, then it's upgrading Coghlan, then it's getting Cantu/Uggla/Hermida/Baker/Helms to hit more, then it's probably what to do with the 5th SP slot as West is up and down and who knows what we have with Anibal, and then maybe it's the last two spots in the bullpen. Literally, it's that far down the list of things that need to happen for this team to turn into a legitimate contender. We don't need to be trading people for relievers. These Ayala/Donnelly/William acquisitions, coupled with Lindstrom coming back, Calero back momentarily, RVH killing people in AAA, Anibal coming back, etc, fill out the bullpen to acceptable production levels.
July 8, 200917 yr ayala, then donnelly, and finally williamson. what's next?? bj ryan was released, are we going to sign him too. i think at least one of ayala or donnelly will pan out but i wouldn't get my hopes on williamson.
July 8, 200917 yr ayala, then donnelly, and finally williamson. what's next?? bj ryan was released, are we going to sign him too. i think at least one of ayala or donnelly will pan out but i wouldn't get my hopes on williamson. I did not see that before this post. BJ's contract is insane. They are eating a ton of money doing that. I just checked, at least $5-6 million this year and another $10 million next year. And this is why you don't sign relievers for more than 2-3 years.
July 8, 200917 yr ayala, then donnelly, and finally williamson. what's next?? bj ryan was released, are we going to sign him too. i think at least one of ayala or donnelly will pan out but i wouldn't get my hopes on williamson. I did not see that before this post. BJ's contract is insane. They are eating a ton of money doing that. I just checked, at least $5-6 million this year and another $10 million next year. And this is why you don't sign relievers for more than 2-3 years. agreed. the one thing that bothers me is when teams overpay for a reliever. the "closer" is one of the most overrated and replaceable things on a team.
July 8, 200917 yr Wow, B.J Ryan was released. Well he's very overpriced and is having a bad and injury filled season.
July 8, 200917 yr I know. It's just that he was one of the top closers in the game two years ago. And now, he's basically useless.
July 8, 200917 yr I know. It's just that he was one of the top closers in the game two years ago. And now, he's basically useless. Well once he get's healthy he good probably make a good mid relief pitcher or maybe a closer on a team that's desperate for one, but certainly not this season.
July 8, 200917 yr I know. It's just that he was one of the top closers in the game two years ago. And now, he's basically useless. He had a 2.95 ERA just last season and had a 1.04 ERA last month. It's really strange him being released, in my eyes.
July 8, 200917 yr I know. It's just that he was one of the top closers in the game two years ago. And now, he's basically useless. He had a 2.95 ERA just last season and had a 1.04 ERA last month. It's really strange him being released, in my eyes. My only guesses are the money or he had a huge disagreement or fight with management.
July 8, 200917 yr Do you think the Marlins are taking a look at him? I honestley wouldn't mind him on the Marlins.
July 8, 200917 yr Do you think the Marlins are taking a look at him? I honestley wouldn't mind him on the Marlins. I wouldn't mind either but not for big money. I believe plenty of teams would be interested in him and would probably give him better offers.
July 8, 200917 yr Do you think the Marlins are taking a look at him? I honestley wouldn't mind him on the Marlins. I wouldn't mind either but not for big money. I believe plenty of teams would be interested in him and would probably give him better offers. He was released. For the remainder of the time on his contract Toronto is on the hook for everything except the pro-rated amount of the league minimum due this year and the minimum in 2010 and beyond (I didn't bother to look up how many years remain).
July 8, 200917 yr Do you think the Marlins are taking a look at him? I honestley wouldn't mind him on the Marlins. I wouldn't mind either but not for big money. I believe plenty of teams would be interested in him and would probably give him better offers. He was released. For the remainder of the time on his contract Toronto is on the hook for everything except the pro-rated amount of the league minimum due this year and the minimum in 2010 and beyond (I didn't bother to look up how many years remain). Are you sure he only gets the pro-rated next season? and if so, that means that whatever team signs him now, has he rights for this year and next? I always assumed that in a multi year contract, the player gets the pro-rated contract for the first season but then becomes a FA after that and basically becomes a FA against while still getting paid money he's owed. That was assumption though so clarification on it would be great.
July 8, 200917 yr Our bullpen ERA ranks 13th in the NL. That's a problem. Wrong. Highly inflated from Lindstrom's meltdowns, Penn, Kensing, C. Martinez, Leroux, and Davidson. Those last five have thrown 42.1 innings with 43 ERA. Even leaving Lindstrom in who has been horrible, you take out those 5 guys and the bullpen era jumps to 3.15 on the season. That is the best bullpen era in baseball. Boston is the current leader at 3.18. This isn't cherry picking. This is just our bullpen once you take out the absolute assholes who completely destroyed it. Leo Nunez 36 IP, 3.75 era, 1.22 whip, 34 K Great Dan Meyer 33.1 IP, 1.89 era, .87 whip, 32 K Amazing Kiko Calero 31.1 IP, 2.01 era, 1.15 whip, 39 K Amazing Reynel Pinto 29 IP, 3.10 era, 1.55 whip, 27 K Acceptable Brian Sanches 19.2 IP, 3.69 era, 1.39 whip, 18 K Solid Burke Badenhop 39 IP, 3.68 era, 1.36 whip, 26 K Solid and we'll figure out from Lindstrom, Ayala, Donnelly, Williamson, Wood, Vanden Hurk etc., something We don't need more RP. Adding AAA depth is always welcome and I encourage it, but saying our bullpen era is indicative of what we have is completely wrong. It is highly skewed from absolutely insane performances by a handful of guys not on the team. THIS MY FRIENDS IS HOW YOU LIES WITH STATISTICS!!!! Good Job. Lets toss out the Outliers and see where we land!!!! WE ARRREEE TEHHH BESTORZZZZS AND ALL YOUZ HAXORZ SUCKS MAH BOXORZ1010101001011)!)!)!@()!)!)!
July 8, 200917 yr Our bullpen ERA ranks 13th in the NL. That's a problem. Wrong. Highly inflated from Lindstrom's meltdowns, Penn, Kensing, C. Martinez, Leroux, and Davidson. Those last five have thrown 42.1 innings with 43 ERA. Even leaving Lindstrom in who has been horrible, you take out those 5 guys and the bullpen era jumps to 3.15 on the season. That is the best bullpen era in baseball. Boston is the current leader at 3.18. This isn't cherry picking. This is just our bullpen once you take out the absolute assholes who completely destroyed it. Leo Nunez 36 IP, 3.75 era, 1.22 whip, 34 K Great Dan Meyer 33.1 IP, 1.89 era, .87 whip, 32 K Amazing Kiko Calero 31.1 IP, 2.01 era, 1.15 whip, 39 K Amazing Reynel Pinto 29 IP, 3.10 era, 1.55 whip, 27 K Acceptable Brian Sanches 19.2 IP, 3.69 era, 1.39 whip, 18 K Solid Burke Badenhop 39 IP, 3.68 era, 1.36 whip, 26 K Solid and we'll figure out from Lindstrom, Ayala, Donnelly, Williamson, Wood, Vanden Hurk etc., something We don't need more RP. Adding AAA depth is always welcome and I encourage it, but saying our bullpen era is indicative of what we have is completely wrong. It is highly skewed from absolutely insane performances by a handful of guys not on the team. THIS MY FRIENDS IS HOW YOU LIES WITH STATISTICS!!!! Good Job. Lets toss out the Outliers and see where we land!!!! WE ARRREEE TEHHH BESTORZZZZS AND ALL YOUZ HAXORZ SUCKS MAH BOXORZ1010101001011)!)!)!@()!)!)! He posted the stats of what our bullpen currently is. What exactly is the problem with that? If we get a bullpen arm, they'd be replacing somebody now, they wouldn't be replacing the crap of kensing/penn/ect. The crap has already been replaced.
July 8, 200917 yr Do you think the Marlins are taking a look at him? I honestley wouldn't mind him on the Marlins. I wouldn't mind either but not for big money. I believe plenty of teams would be interested in him and would probably give him better offers. He was released. For the remainder of the time on his contract Toronto is on the hook for everything except the pro-rated amount of the league minimum due this year and the minimum in 2010 and beyond (I didn't bother to look up how many years remain). Are you sure he only gets the pro-rated next season? That's not what I said. This season the acquiring team is only responsible for the pro-rated minimum. Next season, 2010, the acquiring team is responsible only for the ML minimum. Think Damion Easley.
July 8, 200917 yr Our bullpen ERA ranks 13th in the NL. That's a problem. Wrong. Highly inflated from Lindstrom's meltdowns, Penn, Kensing, C. Martinez, Leroux, and Davidson. Those last five have thrown 42.1 innings with 43 ERA. Even leaving Lindstrom in who has been horrible, you take out those 5 guys and the bullpen era jumps to 3.15 on the season. That is the best bullpen era in baseball. Boston is the current leader at 3.18. This isn't cherry picking. This is just our bullpen once you take out the absolute assholes who completely destroyed it. Leo Nunez 36 IP, 3.75 era, 1.22 whip, 34 K Great Dan Meyer 33.1 IP, 1.89 era, .87 whip, 32 K Amazing Kiko Calero 31.1 IP, 2.01 era, 1.15 whip, 39 K Amazing Reynel Pinto 29 IP, 3.10 era, 1.55 whip, 27 K Acceptable Brian Sanches 19.2 IP, 3.69 era, 1.39 whip, 18 K Solid Burke Badenhop 39 IP, 3.68 era, 1.36 whip, 26 K Solid and we'll figure out from Lindstrom, Ayala, Donnelly, Williamson, Wood, Vanden Hurk etc., something We don't need more RP. Adding AAA depth is always welcome and I encourage it, but saying our bullpen era is indicative of what we have is completely wrong. It is highly skewed from absolutely insane performances by a handful of guys not on the team. THIS MY FRIENDS IS HOW YOU LIES WITH STATISTICS!!!! Good Job. Lets toss out the Outliers and see where we land!!!! WE ARRREEE TEHHH BESTORZZZZS AND ALL YOUZ HAXORZ SUCKS MAH BOXORZ1010101001011)!)!)!@()!)!)! What the f*** are you talking about? He didn't throw out the outliers (6.52 ERA from Lindy would be an outlier), he threw out the people who aren't part of our pen anymore to give an accurate portrayal of what our current pen is. Stop acting like a fool.
July 8, 200917 yr Our bullpen ERA ranks 13th in the NL. That's a problem. Wrong. Highly inflated from Lindstrom's meltdowns, Penn, Kensing, C. Martinez, Leroux, and Davidson. Those last five have thrown 42.1 innings with 43 ERA. Even leaving Lindstrom in who has been horrible, you take out those 5 guys and the bullpen era jumps to 3.15 on the season. That is the best bullpen era in baseball. Boston is the current leader at 3.18. This isn't cherry picking. This is just our bullpen once you take out the absolute assholes who completely destroyed it. Leo Nunez 36 IP, 3.75 era, 1.22 whip, 34 K Great Dan Meyer 33.1 IP, 1.89 era, .87 whip, 32 K Amazing Kiko Calero 31.1 IP, 2.01 era, 1.15 whip, 39 K Amazing Reynel Pinto 29 IP, 3.10 era, 1.55 whip, 27 K Acceptable Brian Sanches 19.2 IP, 3.69 era, 1.39 whip, 18 K Solid Burke Badenhop 39 IP, 3.68 era, 1.36 whip, 26 K Solid and we'll figure out from Lindstrom, Ayala, Donnelly, Williamson, Wood, Vanden Hurk etc., something We don't need more RP. Adding AAA depth is always welcome and I encourage it, but saying our bullpen era is indicative of what we have is completely wrong. It is highly skewed from absolutely insane performances by a handful of guys not on the team. THIS MY FRIENDS IS HOW YOU LIES WITH STATISTICS!!!! Good Job. Lets toss out the Outliers and see where we land!!!! WE ARRREEE TEHHH BESTORZZZZS AND ALL YOUZ HAXORZ SUCKS MAH BOXORZ1010101001011)!)!)!@()!)!)! First, none of us are your friend. Second, I really hate it when high school is out for the summer. My point is/was, this guy is saying we need bullpen help because our bullpen ranks 13th in the NL. That number is true and fine, but that is not an accurate portrayal of the performance of our real bullpen because we have weeded out all of those losers who gave up over a 9 ERA. Which is not just an outlier, but an insane outlier, for over 42 innings pitched. Woe is me for making a comparison of how well our bullpen is pitching with the relievers we have! Current Bullpen (Badenhop is splitted out as a reliever) Nunez, Meyer, Calero, Pinto, Sanches, Badenhop, Donnelly - 190.1 IP, 2.74 era, 1.23 whip (148 H, 86 BB) Nunez, Meyer, Calero, Pinto, Sanches, Badenhop, and LINDSTROM - 218.1 IP, 3.25 era, 1.32 whip (182 H, 106 BB) Anyway you want to slice it, the Marlins have a phenomenally better pen than taking our season average and assuming that's how our bullpen performs. Penn isn't coming back. Kensing was traded. C. Martinez was an injury fill in. Davidson is hurt, and wouldn't be coming back anyways, and Leroux is hurt, and not coming back because Donnelly, Ayala, Wood, and maybe a healthy Williamson, and probably Vanden Hurk and Anibal whenever back, have all probably jumped him on the depth chart. BUT MARLINSLOU, OUR BULLPEN HAS SUCKED THE LAST MONTH AND SPLITTING OUT THEIR SEASONS IS CRAP TOO June-July Totals for current bullpen Nunez, Meyer, Calero, Pinto, Sanches, Badenhop, Donnelly - 68.1 IP, 2.24 era, 1.24 whip (53 H, 32 BB) Nunez, Meyer, Calero, Pinto, Sanches, Badenhop, and LINDSTROM - 75.2 IP, 2.38 era, 1.34 whip (66 H, 35 BB) Nunez 10.1 IP, 4.36 era, 1.45 whip Meyer 10 IP, .90 era, .90 whip Calero 6.1 IP, 1.42 era, 1.26 whip Pinto 8.2 IP, 4.16 era, 1.27 whip Sanches 13.1 IP, 2.03 era, 1.58 whip Badenhop 18.2 IP, 1.45 era, 1.07 whip Donnelly 1 IP, 0 era, 1 whip Lindstrom 8.1 IP, 3.25 era, 2.04 whip Looking objectively at what we currently have, and not at a season line that is, again, bloated by players we no longer use and/or have, I don't see any need to trade a piece for a reliever. What Beinfest is doing in getting freebies with Ayala, Donnelly, and Williamson to try and strike gold is the correct way to go. We have a lot of bullpen talent. In fact, we might have an entire second bullpen currently not on the 25 man roster (Lindstrom, Ayala, Williamson, Wood, Vanden Hurk, Anibal, Leroux). Thanks for stopping by though.
July 8, 200917 yr I really hate it when high school is out for the summer. wow, let's not start stereotyping. we're not all the same, lol
July 9, 200917 yr The exact moment Simon Cowell realised that he was sitting next to Cheryl Cole on the X Factor judge panel.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.