August 12, 200917 yr Just off the top of my head... C- Charles Johnson 1B- Derrek Lee 2B- Luis Castillo 3B- Mike Lowell SS- Hanley Ramirez RF- Gary Sheffield CF- Juan Pierre LF- Jeff Conine Pitchers- Josh Beckett, Dontrelle Willis, Livan Hernandez, Kevin Brown, Josh Johnson
August 12, 200917 yr Let me give it a crack. Catcher- Ivan Pudge Rodriguez First Base- Derek Lee 2nd base- Luis Castillo 3rd base- Mike Lowell SS- Hanley Ramirez LF- Miguel Cabrera CF-Juan Pierre RF- Gary Sheffield Five Starting Pitchers: 1-Josh Beckett 2-Kevin Brown 3-Livan Hernandez 4-Alex Fernandez 5-Al Lieter Bench: Jeff Conine Craig Counsell Bobby Bonilla Mike Piazza Darren Daulton Bullpen: Robb Nen Trevor Hoffman Ugueth Urbina Dennis Cook Jay Powell Braden Looper David Weathers Fast list, might be some updates later. hope this helps. I already commented on Pudge. So for SP's I would go with DTrain over Livan. Yes Livan got the '97 WS MVP, but it was more political than actually won. Alou was the MVP of that Series. DTrain meant much more to this team than Livan ever did. His bat, his attitude, the way the fans flocked to the games whenever he was starting, and the devotion the fans gave him. Your other SPs are kinda hard to argue with. But I am glad to see you included Alex and not AJ. Flip a coin on the 5 he can keep out of this list for the pen. But there are others that sure could be added to it. He has no bench to work with, but Counsell dosen't belong there. The only time he was a bench player was when Castillo beat him out for the starting position in ST. And then he threw a tantrum and demanded to be traded. (A little paraphrasing here but after Castillo beat him out he said "I won them a WS and they treat me like this?") Only after he was traded to LA and then to the D'Backs was he sent down to their AAA team to learn other positions and became a valuable bench player. Actually none of those guys were bench players for this team. Although I guess you could kinda stretch and say 9er was.
August 12, 200917 yr C Charles Johnson 1st Derek Lee 2nd Luis Castillo SS Hanley Ramirez 3rd Mike Lowell LF Miguel Cabrera CF Juan Pierre RF Gary Sheffield Rotation Kevin Brown Al Leiter Josh Beckett Brad Penny Dontrelle Willis Bullpen Brian Harvey Robb Nenn Braden Looper Dennis Cook Ugeth Urbina
August 12, 200917 yr I just want to say one thing: If there was an all-time Marlins team, Kevin Brown would be the ace. Easily. Beckett is at best the Matt Cain to his Tim Lincecum or the Johnny Sain to his Warren Spahn.
August 12, 200917 yr Any list without Bryan Harvey as the team's closer is by definition flawed. No Marlins closer ever meant or contributed more to a single season of Marlins baseball than Bryan Harvey in 1993. Look up the phrase "carried that team on his back" and you'll see Harvey's picture. If you ever have a chance to talk with Jeff Conine ask him what Harvey meant to that group of castoffs and misfits. Without him they could have lost 120 games that season. He won or closed 46 of the team's 64 wins, that's 72% of their victories. He had a 1.70 era for the season. His WHIP was .84. He had the kind of season others can only dream about and did it with one of the worst teams in the game. Thanks to Harvey we even beat the Mets that year. :brigginbounce I can't begin to explain how good it felt to finish the 1993 season not in last place.
August 12, 200917 yr Author Alright So far this is what I officially got.. C-Pudge/Johnson? 1b-Derek Lee 2b-Castilla/Uggla? 3b-Mike Lowell SS-Hanley/Renteria? LF-Alou/Cabrera? CF-Pierre RF-Gary Sheffield SP-Kevin Brown, Josh Becket. Need 3 more RP-Rob Nenn, Dennis Cook. 3 more
August 12, 200917 yr What happened to Mike Piazza for catcher? Piazza did nothing for this team in the week or so he was here. Personally I would go with CJ over Pudge. CJ won 3 GGs here (I believe the first to do so as a Marlin),was an AS, helped us win the Series in '97 by setting MLB records for consecutive games without an error or passed ball, and was a local boy (Ft Pierce) that was the team's first ever draft pick (out of The U). Pretty impressive Marlins bio. Although he helped us win a WS in '03, Pudge signed a 1 year contract with us and made it known it was because he wanted to show he could stay healthy for an entire season (he hadn't been able to do that in previous recent years) and that he could contribute to a team. It was well known if the opportunity presented itself he would go for the $$$ after that season. It did, and he did. And I would question whether Cabrera should being included in the OF. I know he was a fav of most, but... However, seeing 3B should go to Lowell, I guess Miggy should be included someplace. I'm going to argue that aquireing Piazza was more important then any other Trade we did in that firesale. CJ, Sheff, Bonilla were all making massive amounts of money at the time, and we got their medicore declining talent at the plate off the books to start. (Sheff found the clear, but CJ and Bonilla never had a good year at the plate after 97) Then we got a HOF Caliber Catcher, who we traded for one of the most dominant pitchers in the league for 5 years and a CF who netted us in another trade the catalyst for the 2003 World Series. Look at all the facts. Piazza wiped salary AND helped build for the future in 2003. Not bad for a guy who played 5 games, and got his only triple of the season with the Marlins. The guy hated being traded by the dodgers, but he was upset to be traded from the Marlins too. He's a self professed Miami Native, and wanted to play for us last year (Rabelo/Treanor). Thank God Baker proved to be a valuable asset. Basically- Cj, Bo, Sheff for Piazza, Zeile Piazza for AJ and Preston Wilson Preston Wilson for Juan Pierre. Zeile Netted us 2 Minor League Prospects also
August 12, 200917 yr Author What happened to Mike Piazza for catcher? Piazza did nothing for this team in the week or so he was here. Personally I would go with CJ over Pudge. CJ won 3 GGs here (I believe the first to do so as a Marlin),was an AS, helped us win the Series in '97 by setting MLB records for consecutive games without an error or passed ball, and was a local boy (Ft Pierce) that was the team's first ever draft pick (out of The U). Pretty impressive Marlins bio. Although he helped us win a WS in '03, Pudge signed a 1 year contract with us and made it known it was because he wanted to show he could stay healthy for an entire season (he hadn't been able to do that in previous recent years) and that he could contribute to a team. It was well known if the opportunity presented itself he would go for the $$$ after that season. It did, and he did. And I would question whether Cabrera should being included in the OF. I know he was a fav of most, but... However, seeing 3B should go to Lowell, I guess Miggy should be included someplace. I'm going to argue that aquireing Piazza was more important then any other Trade we did in that firesale. CJ, Sheff, Bonilla were all making massive amounts of money at the time, and we got their medicore declining talent at the plate off the books to start. (Sheff found the clear, but CJ and Bonilla never had a good year at the plate after 97) Then we got a HOF Caliber Catcher, who we traded for one of the most dominant pitchers in the league for 5 years and a CF who netted us in another trade the catalyst for the 2003 World Series. Look at all the facts. Piazza wiped salary AND helped build for the future in 2003. Not bad for a guy who played 5 games, and got his only triple of the season with the Marlins. The guy hated being traded by the dodgers, but he was upset to be traded from the Marlins too. He's a self professed Miami Native, and wanted to play for us last year (Rabelo/Treanor). Thank God Baker proved to be a valuable asset. Basically- Cj, Bo, Sheff for Piazza, Zeile Piazza for AJ and Preston Wilson Preston Wilson for Juan Pierre. Zeile Netted us 2 Minor League Prospects also I understand your arguement, but do you think Mike made a bigger impact to the fish then CJ or Pudge
August 12, 200917 yr Alright So far this is what I officially got.. C-Pudge/Johnson? 1b-Derek Lee 2b-Castilla/Uggla? 3b-Mike Lowell SS-Hanley/Renteria? LF-Alou/Cabrera? CF-Pierre RF-Gary Sheffield SP-Kevin Brown, Josh Becket. Need 3 more RP-Rob Nenn, Dennis Cook. 3 more Pude over C.J., It's Luis Castillo(you keep spelling it Castilla), If Anything Miguel over Lowell at 3rd and Connine in LF. Relief Pitchers Urbina, Powell and Harvey. SP Brown, Beckett, Willis, Livan Hernandez, Burnett or Pavano, J.J., Lieter and Alex Fernandez.
August 12, 200917 yr Alright So far this is what I officially got.. C-Pudge/Johnson? 1b-Derek Lee 2b-Castilla/Uggla? 3b-Mike Lowell SS-Hanley/Renteria? LF-Alou/Cabrera? CF-Pierre RF-Gary Sheffield SP-Kevin Brown, Josh Becket. Need 3 more RP-Rob Nenn, Dennis Cook. 3 more You gotta have Harvey and Urbina in your bullpen they have the 2 best seasons ever for Marlin closers
August 12, 200917 yr Any list without Bryan Harvey as the team's closer is by definition flawed. No Marlins closer ever meant or contributed more to a single season of Marlins baseball than Bryan Harvey in 1993. Look up the phrase "carried that team on his back" and you'll see Harvey's picture. If you ever have a chance to talk with Jeff Conine ask him what Harvey meant to that group of castoffs and misfits. Without him they could have lost 120 games that season. He won or closed 46 of the team's 64 wins, that's 72% of their victories. He had a 1.70 era for the season. His WHIP was .84. He had the kind of season others can only dream about and did it with one of the worst teams in the game. Thanks to Harvey we even beat the Mets that year. I can't begin to explain how good it felt to finish the 1993 season not in last place. Amen brother!
August 13, 200917 yr Alright So far this is what I officially got.. C-Pudge/Johnson? 1b-Derek Lee 2b-Castilla/Uggla? 3b-Mike Lowell SS-Hanley/Renteria? LF-Alou/Cabrera? CF-Pierre RF-Gary Sheffield SP-Kevin Brown, Josh Becket. Need 3 more RP-Rob Nenn, Dennis Cook. 3 more Pude over C.J., It's Luis Castillo(you keep spelling it Castilla), If Anything Miguel over Lowell at 3rd and Connine in LF. Relief Pitchers Urbina, Powell and Harvey. SP Brown, Beckett, Willis, Livan Hernandez, Burnett or Pavano, J.J., Lieter and Alex Fernandez. If Pudge is going over CJ then Uggla goes over Castillo.
August 13, 200917 yr I'd say Piazza was more important as a whole. CJ and Pudge got us a world series, but Piazza was essential to moving salary and rebuilding towards the second WS. Pudge was a one and done, and although he was great while here he was just a money mercenary. Following the green where ever it led (at one time to Japan if no MLB team wanted him). CJ was our 1st DP, GG, 97 WS Catcher. If I were doing it based on contributions in games alone, it would be CJ Benito Santiago Pudge Bob Natal Piazza If I were based on contributions to the organization as a whole, it would be very different. Piazza (based on the salary dump/prospects recieved) CJ (based on 97 WS) Santiago (Based on popularity and 1st catcher for the fish) Pudge (Based on 03 WS alone, because he was a money hungry punk) Redmond (based on his leadership on the team and teaching Irod the SP's upon arrival) Zaun (Was the man behind the plate in 98, was underrated as a MLB Player and marlin) Natal (IDK who the hell he was, but I have his card and I find it funny) Ramon Castro is a distant last, because he had "Baby Toes"
August 13, 200917 yr I'd say Piazza was more important as a whole. CJ and Pudge got us a world series, but Piazza was essential to moving salary and rebuilding towards the second WS. Pudge was a one and done, and although he was great while here he was just a money mercenary. Following the green where ever it led (at one time to Japan if no MLB team wanted him). CJ was our 1st DP, GG, 97 WS Catcher. If I were doing it based on contributions in games alone, it would be CJ Benito Santiago Pudge Bob Natal Piazza If I were based on contributions to the organization as a whole, it would be very different. Piazza (based on the salary dump/prospects recieved) CJ (based on 97 WS) Santiago (Based on popularity and 1st catcher for the fish) Pudge (Based on 03 WS alone, because he was a money hungry punk) Redmond (based on his leadership on the team and teaching Irod the SP's upon arrival) Zaun (Was the man behind the plate in 98, was underrated as a MLB Player and marlin) Natal (IDK who the hell he was, but I have his card and I find it funny) Ramon Castro is a distant last, because he had "Baby Toes" Wow, Pretty good Post here. Now I think C.J. should be on top of the list.
August 13, 200917 yr What happened to Mike Piazza for catcher? Piazza did nothing for this team in the week or so he was here. Personally I would go with CJ over Pudge. CJ won 3 GGs here (I believe the first to do so as a Marlin),was an AS, helped us win the Series in '97 by setting MLB records for consecutive games without an error or passed ball, and was a local boy (Ft Pierce) that was the team's first ever draft pick (out of The U). Pretty impressive Marlins bio. Although he helped us win a WS in '03, Pudge signed a 1 year contract with us and made it known it was because he wanted to show he could stay healthy for an entire season (he hadn't been able to do that in previous recent years) and that he could contribute to a team. It was well known if the opportunity presented itself he would go for the $$$ after that season. It did, and he did. And I would question whether Cabrera should being included in the OF. I know he was a fav of most, but... However, seeing 3B should go to Lowell, I guess Miggy should be included someplace. I'm going to argue that aquireing Piazza was more important then any other Trade we did in that firesale. CJ, Sheff, Bonilla were all making massive amounts of money at the time, and we got their medicore declining talent at the plate off the books to start. (Sheff found the clear, but CJ and Bonilla never had a good year at the plate after 97) Then we got a HOF Caliber Catcher, who we traded for one of the most dominant pitchers in the league for 5 years and a CF who netted us in another trade the catalyst for the 2003 World Series. Look at all the facts. Piazza wiped salary AND helped build for the future in 2003. Not bad for a guy who played 5 games, and got his only triple of the season with the Marlins. The guy hated being traded by the dodgers, but he was upset to be traded from the Marlins too. He's a self professed Miami Native, and wanted to play for us last year (Rabelo/Treanor). Thank God Baker proved to be a valuable asset. Basically- Cj, Bo, Sheff for Piazza, Zeile Piazza for AJ and Preston Wilson Preston Wilson for Juan Pierre. Zeile Netted us 2 Minor League Prospects also I would expect you to argue that. But the fact remains Piazza himself did nothing for this team. Some of the guys we traded him for and/or traded them for did. Looking at it your way is giving him credit for things others did, including the FO for turning those trades when it was well known we couldn't and wouldn't bow down to his contract demands. Piazza dosen't belong on this list. And no, he didn't really "hate" to be traded by the Dodgers or us, no matter how he spun it or his fans remember it. He was asking them an exorbitant amount of $$$ (at that time anyways $100 mil over 5 or 6 years) for his new contract and they weren't willing to pay that amount for a poor defensive catcher with a good bat. He and his agent stood fast on that demand, so he basically talked his way out of LA and Miami. Meaning it was basically his choice to leave for greener (pun intended) pastures.
August 13, 200917 yr Alright So far this is what I officially got.. C-Pudge/Johnson? 1b-Derek Lee 2b-Castilla/Uggla? 3b-Mike Lowell SS-Hanley/Renteria? LF-Alou/Cabrera? CF-Pierre RF-Gary Sheffield SP-Kevin Brown, Josh Becket. Need 3 more RP-Rob Nenn, Dennis Cook. 3 more Pude over C.J., It's Luis Castillo(you keep spelling it Castilla), If Anything Miguel over Lowell at 3rd and Connine in LF. Relief Pitchers Urbina, Powell and Harvey. SP Brown, Beckett, Willis, Livan Hernandez, Burnett or Pavano, J.J., Lieter and Alex Fernandez. If Pudge is going over CJ then Uggla goes over Castillo. Only those that are too young to actually remember what CJ and Castillo did with and for this team would go that way. Sorry.
August 13, 200917 yr What happened to Mike Piazza for catcher? Piazza did nothing for this team in the week or so he was here. Personally I would go with CJ over Pudge. CJ won 3 GGs here (I believe the first to do so as a Marlin),was an AS, helped us win the Series in '97 by setting MLB records for consecutive games without an error or passed ball, and was a local boy (Ft Pierce) that was the team's first ever draft pick (out of The U). Pretty impressive Marlins bio. Although he helped us win a WS in '03, Pudge signed a 1 year contract with us and made it known it was because he wanted to show he could stay healthy for an entire season (he hadn't been able to do that in previous recent years) and that he could contribute to a team. It was well known if the opportunity presented itself he would go for the $$$ after that season. It did, and he did. And I would question whether Cabrera should being included in the OF. I know he was a fav of most, but... However, seeing 3B should go to Lowell, I guess Miggy should be included someplace. I'm going to argue that aquireing Piazza was more important then any other Trade we did in that firesale. CJ, Sheff, Bonilla were all making massive amounts of money at the time, and we got their medicore declining talent at the plate off the books to start. (Sheff found the clear, but CJ and Bonilla never had a good year at the plate after 97) Then we got a HOF Caliber Catcher, who we traded for one of the most dominant pitchers in the league for 5 years and a CF who netted us in another trade the catalyst for the 2003 World Series. Look at all the facts. Piazza wiped salary AND helped build for the future in 2003. Not bad for a guy who played 5 games, and got his only triple of the season with the Marlins. The guy hated being traded by the dodgers, but he was upset to be traded from the Marlins too. He's a self professed Miami Native, and wanted to play for us last year (Rabelo/Treanor). Thank God Baker proved to be a valuable asset. Basically- Cj, Bo, Sheff for Piazza, Zeile Piazza for AJ and Preston Wilson Preston Wilson for Juan Pierre. Zeile Netted us 2 Minor League Prospects also I understand your arguement, but do you think Mike made a bigger impact to the fish then CJ or Pudge I don't get his argument at all...We didn't get Burnett in the Piazza deal we got Burnett in the Leiter deal before the 1998 season even started. You could argue however that we got Ed Yarnall in that deal and we ended up flipping him for Mike Lowell.
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