^ ^ Don't forget Gomes and Baldelli, as well as Hinske and Gabe Gross as serviceable guys.

 

 

 

I edited the post to include Baldelli, for sure. At that time, pretty much everyone around baseball thought of Baldelli as a good, young outfielder. The Marlins were actually interested in a Baldelli for Scott Olsen trade way back when, according to rumors. The Rays (or Devil Rays, as they were known as at the time) simply had the best group of young OF'ers with potential at that time, and everyone pretty much knew they'd trade one of those outfielders for some pitching because their pitching was not that good, back then. This was completely different from the Hermida/Willingham situation here. As a matter of fact, if this had worked the other way around (in the case of Hermida being traded/Hermida becoming the player people around the game thought he would become), Beinfest would have been bashed for making such a move. The only problem with the Olsen/Willingham trade was getting Bonifacio as the centerpiece of the deal. That wasn't low value though, that's just dumb scouting in that case by the organization. They felt as though Bonifacio met the organization's needs of speed, and felt that he'd provide stellar defense and be the future 2B/leadoff hitter. I still believe they hope Bonifacio becomes the future 2B, as well. (it's not going to happen because he's horrible, but the Marlins saw something in him at the time of the trade that they felt could help this team, long-term). Just a bad trade. It happens to every GM.

 

And the Rays also had Jonny Gomes, the 2005 ROY who had hit 17+ HR in 3 straight years (20+ 2x) without ever having more than 400 AB.

And they traded A-Gonz for Urbina when they were a legitimate contender.

TBH, saying that the Rays were OK in trading an elite guy because they had serviceable guys around is not that much different than me saying that Gaby is serviceable, so it shouldn't be blashemy to say that Morrison could be traded for a stud somewhere else. I really need to clarify that I don't think that someone else should be an unreliable bullpen arm to help out the floundering team that's on the field right now.

 

 

Gaby Sanchez is going to be 27 once next year rolls around, which is not exactly "young" in baseball. He's no longer what one would consider a prospect. I mean, if I'm following you correctly, why not trade Gaby Sanchez for some pitching instead? Gaby's value is likely at its highest right now with his .OPS over .800, playing everyday. Morrison, who's coming back from injury not so long ago, is likely not at his highest value, at the moment. So why trade the prospect who's one of the top prospects in baseball/is 4-5 years younger than Gaby Sanchez? Morrison still has the potential to improve (mind you, he is already a good hitter, who I'd bet has more instant success than a guy like Stanton, the day he is called up).

I really need to point out here that Elijah Dukes was traded days after Delmon, so it wasn't as if they were planning on keeping him around to fill the position. They'd had enough of Dukes before Delmon's trade was discussed, it just took that long to find a suitor. Also, I really don't think Baldelli should be mentioned at all as it was doubtful that he would ever be able to play ball again. Also, don't even try and tell me that Fernando Perez and Justin Ruggiano were highly thought of by them so it was ok to trade Delmon- of the two, the only one they've ever shown any confidence in is Perez and only as a defensive replacement/spot starter. Thats like saying we could trade Josh Willingham because we had Brett Carroll.

 

The reality is that the Rays were completely OK with using merely serviceable options in RF, which is all they had in Hinske and Gross all year.

^ ^ Don't forget Gomes and Baldelli, as well as Hinske and Gabe Gross as serviceable guys.

 

 

 

I edited the post to include Baldelli, for sure. At that time, pretty much everyone around baseball thought of Baldelli as a good, young outfielder. The Marlins were actually interested in a Baldelli for Scott Olsen trade way back when, according to rumors. The Rays (or Devil Rays, as they were known as at the time) simply had the best group of young OF'ers with potential at that time, and everyone pretty much knew they'd trade one of those outfielders for some pitching because their pitching was not that good, back then. This was completely different from the Hermida/Willingham situation here. As a matter of fact, if this had worked the other way around (in the case of Hermida being traded/Hermida becoming the player people around the game thought he would become), Beinfest would have been bashed for making such a move. The only problem with the Olsen/Willingham trade was getting Bonifacio as the centerpiece of the deal. That wasn't low value though, that's just dumb scouting in that case by the organization. They felt as though Bonifacio met the organization's needs of speed, and felt that he'd provide stellar defense and be the future 2B/leadoff hitter. I still believe they hope Bonifacio becomes the future 2B, as well. (it's not going to happen because he's horrible, but the Marlins saw something in him at the time of the trade that they felt could help this team, long-term). Just a bad trade. It happens to every GM.

 

And the Rays also had Jonny Gomes, the 2005 ROY who had hit 17+ HR in 3 straight years (20+ 2x) without ever having more than 400 AB.

 

 

I keep leaving out Gomes because he just seemed more like a DH in their plans, but yes, Gomes was another guy capable of filling in in the OF, and provide solid production offensively.

I really need to point out here that Elijah Dukes was traded days after Delmon, so it wasn't as if they were planning on keeping him around to fill the position. They'd had enough of Dukes before Delmon's trade was discussed, it just took that long to find a suitor. Also, I really don't think Baldelli should be mentioned at all as it was doubtful that he would ever be able to play ball again. Also, don't even try and tell me that Fernando Perez and Justin Ruggiano were highly thought of by them so it was ok to trade Delmon- of the two, the only one they've ever shown any confidence in is Perez and only as a defensive replacement/spot starter. Thats like saying we could trade Josh Willingham because we had Brett Carroll.

 

The reality is that the Rays were completely OK with using merely serviceable options in RF, which is all they had in Hinske and Gross all year.

 

 

 

Good point about Dukes.

 

Regardless, Baldelli played for them in 2008. Baldelli was still young at the age of 26, and had a past history of producing at the big league level, both offensively and defensively. There were some injury concerns with him, but after the Dukes trade, I'm sure they weren't just initially content having Gross play RF that year. That's just the way things turned out. Their original plan was to have Rocco Baldelli in the OF. Gross wasn't even with them originally; they picked him up after the Brewers had released him.

Gaby's value is at its highest but Morrison still has the higher trade value and that will likely be the case unless Gaby hits 25+ homers. Morrison's value= stud level, while Gaby is fringe prospect. The thing is that the difference in trade value is hardly ever the same as the difference in production- that's why Cameron Maybin gets traded for a future HOFer while Cody Ross was literally had for nothing.

Gaby's value is at its highest but Morrison still has the higher trade value and that will likely be the case unless Gaby hits 25+ homers. Morrison's value= stud level, while Gaby is fringe prospect. The thing is that the difference in trade value is hardly ever the same as the difference in production- that's why Cameron Maybin gets traded for a future HOFer while Cody Ross was literally had for nothing.

 

 

 

No small market team can win trading all their top prospects because "they have higher trade value." Gaby Sanchez would go for more than a fringe prospect right now. As a matter of fact, we could probably get that reliever we're currently trying to get by trading Gaby Sanchez, if we felt like it.

 

If you're constantly making Adrian Gonzalez for Ugueth Urbina type trades to get your team over the hump, the team is going to go nowhere fast. Maybe a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. can do that, but the Marlins can't play it that way.

 

Based on the Marlins current situation, I don't see how it's wise/possible to make a Delmon Young/Matt Garza type deal, where it was basically top prospect for top prospect at that point...each team getting areas of need, at the time. Mind you, you're only praising the Rays because of how the trade panned out. That deal initially seemed like a deal of fair value, yet the Rays have gotten lucky that the deal has turned dramatically in their favor. Not just Garza being better than Young, but also with Jason Bartlett having the type of year he had last year, which no one could have predicted, and more likely than not was a fluke (at least in terms of his offensive #'s, that is).

get Morrison up ASAP. i mean, our pitching's AWESOME 5 innings out of every game, don't get me wrong. but there's 9 inning a game. and we need 10 runs a game if we're gonna go anywhere

get Morrison up ASAP. i mean, our pitching's AWESOME 5 innings out of every game, don't get me wrong. but there's 9 inning a game. and we need 10 runs a game if we're gonna go anywhere

 

 

 

For what? Who's he going to replace in the starting lineup? There's no point. Keep him in the minors.

double post

Gaby's value is at its highest but Morrison still has the higher trade value and that will likely be the case unless Gaby hits 25+ homers. Morrison's value= stud level, while Gaby is fringe prospect. The thing is that the difference in trade value is hardly ever the same as the difference in production- that's why Cameron Maybin gets traded for a future HOFer while Cody Ross was literally had for nothing.

 

 

 

No small market team can win trading all their top prospects because "they have higher trade value." Gaby Sanchez would go for more than a fringe prospect right now. As a matter of fact, we could probably get that reliever we're currently trying to get by trading Gaby Sanchez, if we felt like it.

 

If you're constantly making Adrian Gonzalez for Ugueth Urbina type trades to get your team over the hump, the team is going to go nowhere fast. Maybe a team like the Yankees, Red Sox, etc. can do that, but the Marlins can't play it that way.

 

Based on the Marlins current situation, I don't see how it's wise/possible to make a Delmon Young/Matt Garza type deal, where it was basically top prospect for top prospect at that point...each team getting areas of need, at the time. Mind you, you're only praising the Rays because of how the trade panned out. That deal initially seemed like a deal of fair value, yet the Rays have gotten lucky that the deal has turned dramatically in their favor. Not just Garza being better than Young, but also with Jason Bartlett having the type of year he had last year, which no one could have predicted, and more likely than not was a fluke (at least in terms of his offensive #'s, that is).

 

The thing with that trade is that it made the Rays a better team the year they ended up in the WS. Once they got what they needed to out of Delmon Young and he was off the team, it didn't matter if he hit 40 homers the next year. They still became a dramatically better team because they filled a huge hole in the starting rotation that they would have had to fill anyway to become successful. Delmon hitting 40 homers for them wouldn't have changed that. They needed Matt Garza, and to a lesser extent Jason Bartlett (although what he did last year isn't that important because I'm just discussing 2008). I know there were other X factors in 2008, like Longoria, a name/uniform change, etc., but Garza was still one move that needed to happen for everything else to fall in place.

 

I'm actually not against trading Gaby this year, assuming that we can get something worthwhile in return. In fact, if this team isn't selling at the deadline (which saddens me to think is incredibly possible) this type of trade is the easiest thing that this team could do to improve itself. It would be a gamble to throw in an unproven rookie in for a guy whose performing, but I'm not against taking risks and I'm just here right now condemning this franchise's lack of risks. My only question is whether or not we can get what we need to with Gaby, but he's not hurting those chances with his hitting lately.