First off, let me say that I think Obama was born in Hawaii like he said he was. (still don't think he's qualified to be president though). That being said, let's just say it comes out tomorrow that he was actually born in Kenya like the birthers claim, how would you feel knowing you were deceived in to voting a Kenyan into an office that ONLY natural born Americans are supposed to hold?

 

 

Again, I mean no harm with this, just curious to how people would feel if it were to be revealed as the truth.

The fact that he was raised an American and grew up through childhood, adolescence, his high school years, college years, and downright his entire life in this country is enough for me to not give a rats ass where he was born.

 

Why should that matter? Seriously, American's pride themselves with 'America' for all the wrong reasons. There's a big difference between what the law was intended to do (stop all foreign nationals from intruding in on our country and government) and what people think it was intended to do (be a 'natural born American').

 

Just to reiterate the point. Obama didn't have a father. How would you like it being an American citizen your entire conscious and subconscious life and having that held against you? He's an American, end of story. I wouldn't feel deceived in any way. I'd feel disgusted that our country and it's people can't realize that it's not a big deal and that they carry their pride in all the wrong ways.

 

And this isn't coming from myself the democrat. I'm quite in the middle, with libertarian ideology (as opposed to the Libertarian Party of America).

Look all I want to know, is how you would feel if Obama turned out to really be Kenyan and thus ineligible for the presidency? That's it. No partisanship. No political debate bs. just how you would feel. I'm not interested in debated, only knowing how you would feel if what I posed were true.

 

I mean seriously, I posed this question on three forums, and of the four responses I've gotten thus far they've all been about how ignorant the birthers are and how stupid I am for posing the question, why can anyone just answer the damn question then go on with their day? It's not hard, I promise.

Then whatever. If it happened, it happened. End of story.

It took 2 hours and 7 responses to get the first legit taker at the hypothetical question. Thank you, el penguino.

I am an Obama supporter and I agree with Penguino.

 

That said, nothing I hate more than a "secret Kenyan" topic, even if it's "hypothetical".

Then I must say, Rab, thanks for putting that aside for a second to participate.

I'm not an Obama supporter, but if this were to happen hypothetically, the issue wouldn't really be the fact that he wasn't a natural born citizen, the issue would be that he deliberately deceived the country by lying and providing forged documentation. In that case he would need to be removed from office and tried as a criminal.

 

 

This assumes that he actually knew he was born in Kenya and forged the documents. I highly doubt that would be the case.

 

In any case, there is a question about what constitutes a "natural born American citizen." The Supreme Court has, to my knowledge, never ruled on this. If you are born to one or more American citizen parents then you are an American by birth, no matter where you were physically born. The question is whether that qualifies you as a "natural born citizen." No one really knows the answer to this question definitively.

 

As a consequence, I am not sure that he would automatically be ruled ineligible to be president of the United States even if he had been born abroad since he was an American citizen by birth. Thus, the OP's question makes too many assumptions.

Look all I want to know, is how you would feel if Obama turned out to really be Kenyan and thus ineligible for the presidency? That's it. No partisanship. No political debate bs. just how you would feel. I'm not interested in debated, only knowing how you would feel if what I posed were true.

 

I mean seriously, I posed this question on three forums, and of the four responses I've gotten thus far they've all been about how ignorant the birthers are and how stupid I am for posing the question, why can anyone just answer the damn question then go on with their day? It's not hard, I promise.

 

 

Partisanship? Political debate? I did none of the sort. I spoke my mind. You asked for my thoughts on the matter and without saying it straight forward, my point is clear. I wouldn't care.

 

Unfortunately the news and media would make a big deal out of him being 'Obama: The Keyan Foreign National' or something ridiculous to the sort. I agree with the sentiments earlier that people should be upset if he lied, though. But then think about it again... what is he supposed to say? "Oh yeah, Actually I was born in Kenya. Peace out, America. Joe Biden, you're the prez."

 

It gets to a point where he could never tell the truth, anyways. He'd do more harm in telling the truth and leaving office than he would just sticking to Hawaii. Especially considering he's been born in Hawaii theoretically speaking his entire life.

I probably wouldn't care that much. Obviously he would need to be impeached for lying and not being an American citizen, but it wouldn't bother me too much. Now if everybody in Congress turned out to be Kenyan, then we might have a problem.

Now if everybody in Congress turned out to be Kenyan, then we might have a problem.

 

 

If they were Nigerian, at least we'd be the richest country in the world?

Thus, the OP's question makes too many assumptions.

 

 

It's a hypothetical situation, it's supposed to make assumptions to set up the situation.

Just to be clear, even if he were born in Kenya he would be a United States citizen. As I stated previously, any child born in another country to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth. Thus, he wouldn't be "not a US citizen." It's amazing how many people aren't aware of this very basic part of nationality law.

 

Again, I repeat: a child born to to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth no matter where that child is born.

 

Thus, he's an American citizen without a doubt because his mom was an American citizen when he was born. Get it? Hope so.

 

In any case, I there's no doubt he was born in Hawaii.

I'm not an Obama supporter, but if this were to happen hypothetically, the issue wouldn't really be the fact that he wasn't a natural born citizen, the issue would be that he deliberately deceived the country by lying and providing forged documentation. In that case he would need to be removed from office and tried as a criminal.

 

 

This assumes that he actually knew he was born in Kenya and forged the documents. I highly doubt that would be the case.

 

In any case, there is a question about what constitutes a "natural born American citizen." The Supreme Court has, to my knowledge, never ruled on this. If you are born to one or more American citizen parents then you are an American by birth, no matter where you were physically born. The question is whether that qualifies you as a "natural born citizen." No one really knows the answer to this question definitively.

 

As a consequence, I am not sure that he would automatically be ruled ineligible to be president of the United States even if he had been born abroad since he was an American citizen by birth. Thus, the OP's question makes too many assumptions.

It would have to be the case, actually.

 

He's released documents suggesting he was born in the US to debunk the conspiracy theorists' claims. Under the scenario where he wasn't born in the US, those documents would have to be false. If the documents were false, it is unlikely that the state of Hawaii would have given him false documents, so he would have had to forge them himself. Remember that all the documents have either been released by his campaign or the White House, never the state of Hawaii itself. While there is no reason to doubt the authenticity of the documents, in any possible scenario one would have to assume that the documents were deliberately faked. For the sake of the hypothetical argument, this seems to be the most plausible manner in which things could unfold.

 

It's also probable that he has at some point contacted Hawaii regarding his birth status. After all, McCain investigated his to make sure he was eligible. Hawaii isn't going to mislead him. So if he were really born in Kenya, any hypothetical scenario would seem to suggest that he knowingly deceived people after Hawaii told him he wasn't born there.

 

So if the conspiracy theorists were proven to be right, a Supreme Court ruling on natural born citizenship would be the least of his problems.

 

I believe Hawaii released a statement confirming he was born in Hawaii or the long form of his birth certificate. Obama actually made this request to Hawaii. That was the basis for my assertion.

Just to be clear, even if he were born in Kenya he would be a United States citizen. As I stated previously, any child born in another country to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth. Thus, he wouldn't be "not a US citizen." It's amazing how many people aren't aware of this very basic part of nationality law.

 

Again, I repeat: a child born to to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth no matter where that child is born.

 

Thus, he's an American citizen without a doubt because his mom was an American citizen when he was born. Get it? Hope so.

 

In any case, I there's no doubt he was born in Hawaii.

 

 

 

That is not entirely accurate...

Just to be clear, even if he were born in Kenya he would be a United States citizen. As I stated previously, any child born in another country to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth. Thus, he wouldn't be "not a US citizen." It's amazing how many people aren't aware of this very basic part of nationality law.

 

Again, I repeat: a child born to to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth no matter where that child is born.

 

Thus, he's an American citizen without a doubt because his mom was an American citizen when he was born. Get it? Hope so.

 

In any case, I there's no doubt he was born in Hawaii.

 

 

 

That is not entirely accurate...

Correct, but I believe it would apply to Obama because his mother didn't leave the country until much past her 16th birthday.

What you describe is a high crime and an impeachable offense. So regardless of the opinion on the validity of an indesputible American citizen that was indesputibly born to a citizen, as a citizen - just on foreign soil - running for and holding the office of President, the crime would supercede.

 

BTW, I don't happen to think that "natural born" means the same as native born, otherwise John McCain couldn't be President either (Panama canal zone birth)

Just to be clear, even if he were born in Kenya he would be a United States citizen. As I stated previously, any child born in another country to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth. Thus, he wouldn't be "not a US citizen." It's amazing how many people aren't aware of this very basic part of nationality law.

 

Again, I repeat: a child born to to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth no matter where that child is born.

 

Thus, he's an American citizen without a doubt because his mom was an American citizen when he was born. Get it? Hope so.

 

In any case, I there's no doubt he was born in Hawaii.

 

 

 

That is not entirely accurate...

Correct, but I believe it would apply to Obama because his mother didn't leave the country until much past her 16th birthday.

 

I believe that his mother needed 10 years of residency, five of which coming after the age of 16. Since Barack's mother was 18 when he was born, he technically wouldn't be a natural born citizen. Of course this only applies if he was born OUTSIDE the United States, which I don't think he was.

Just to be clear, even if he were born in Kenya he would be a United States citizen. As I stated previously, any child born in another country to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth. Thus, he wouldn't be "not a US citizen." It's amazing how many people aren't aware of this very basic part of nationality law.

 

Again, I repeat: a child born to to a U.S. citizen parent is automatically an American citizen at birth no matter where that child is born.

 

Thus, he's an American citizen without a doubt because his mom was an American citizen when he was born. Get it? Hope so.

 

In any case, I there's no doubt he was born in Hawaii.

 

 

 

That is not entirely accurate...

Correct, but I believe it would apply to Obama because his mother didn't leave the country until much past her 16th birthday.

 

I believe that his mother needed 10 years of residency, five of which coming after the age of 16. Since Barack's mother was 18 when he was born, he technically wouldn't be a natural born citizen. Of course this only applies if he was born OUTSIDE the United States, which I don't think he was.

Ah, I was looking at the current law, which is 5 years of residency with 2 coming after 14. That's post 1988. For Obama, it would be 10 years with 5 years being post 14-years-old.

 

Now, there are even stranger possibility. There is an argument to be made that the marriage between Obama's father and mother wasn't legal (because Obama was married to another woman in Kenya). In that case, Obama would be a natural-born citizen because "a person born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 309© of the INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the person’s birth and if the mother was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the person’s birth. "

What you describe is a high crime and an impeachable offense. So regardless of the opinion on the validity of an indesputible American citizen that was indesputibly born to a citizen, as a citizen - just on foreign soil - running for and holding the office of President, the crime would supercede.

 

BTW, I don't happen to think that "natural born" means the same as native born, otherwise John McCain couldn't be President either (Panama canal zone birth)

 

 

 

Reading through this thread I wondered about that where someone would be born in Germany while US parents were on tour of duty. So now I understand the comment about McCain checking.

 

 

As far as the question posed and the only way I could see it happening would be Obama knows/knew about the forgery, it would be an impeachable offense. Wonder if it would be a prison sentence?? :mis2

Sorry, this is a silly hypothetical

If Germany required its leader to be born on Germany, WWII never would've happened. So consider that before you say you don't care where Obama was born. I actually don't but I think its a good rule in general.

If Germany required its leader to be born on Germany, WWII never would've happened. So consider that before you say you don't care where Obama was born. I actually don't but I think its a good rule in general.

 

 

Oh please... as if.

If Germany required its leader to be born on Germany, WWII never would've happened. So consider that before you say you don't care where Obama was born. I actually don't but I think its a good rule in general.

 

 

Oh please... as if.

Huh? I don't speak Sweet Valley High or Clueless.

That's like saying "Since Hitler was elected democratically, it's important to remember that if not for democracy, WW2 never would have happened."

 

Its true, but it means nothing.