What do we do with him? I think we almost have to make Hayes the starter. He's killing this team with bad defense and awful offensively. I know he has a pretty large contract but man he's just been awful. I'd rather have Ronnie Paulino back

He's "killing the team with bad defense"?

i don't know about killing the team defensively, but he isn't doing enough defensively where it makes up for his black hole in the lineup. its just awful. he shouldn't be playing more than 2-3 times a week.

I made a thread about this and people were saying buck was the next best thing to sliced bread, iv been saying that we should make hayes our number 1 catcher. Where are you Benito santiago??

Rich and Tommy actually addressed a twitter question about Buck and I think they hit it spot on. Basic Paraphrase of response was: As long as the Pitching is doing well when he is in catching and he is calling good games it is a sign that his slump is not affecting his Defense you leave him in there and hope he works his way through.

 

In my opinion, i would be happy with a good game calling catcher hitting .225 in that 8 spot as long as he got on base occasionally. Let's not get spoiled here. Not every guy is on fire at the same time and Buck definitely deserves a fair amount of the credit for the pitching successes on the team.

While he might not be "killing" us defensively he is not helping and that error he made last night on that throw to 3rd was plain awful. Brett Hayes needs to see more time

While he might not be "killing" us defensively he is not helping and that error he made last night on that throw to 3rd was plain awful. Brett Hayes needs to see more time

 

 

Hayes is not great defensively.

It's not just Buck. Everyone in the lineup outside of Infante is underperforming offensively. The problem is bigger than that.

Is this about to turn into another "Fire Perez" thread?

Fire Perez and hire Lou pinella as hitting coach :-)

Buck will hit better than he has thus far. Full time Hayes would be a disaster.

John Buck's OPS is only .075 points below Hayes', despite a BABIP that is .141 points lower.

 

He's not going to have a .200 BABIP all year, and he's showing good secondary skills. His luck will turn around.

It's not just Buck. Everyone in the lineup outside of Infante is underperforming offensively. The problem is bigger than that.

 

Stanton's actually right where he should be offensively. He started off horribly slow and has picked it up big time this month, as you know. Shows you how big his month has been. Hanley, while his OPS is a bit down, has been producing runs, as he's supposed to. Infante is overperforming big time, especially with the power. This team is doing the little things right, for the most part, and that's how you win games. Keeping games close, battling back, all that.

 

 

I made a thread about this and people were saying buck was the next best thing to sliced bread, iv been saying that we should make hayes our number 1 catcher. Where are you Benito santiago??

 

I'm pretty sure none of us said he was the next best thing to sliced bread. We said he was the best available option we could get, and at the time, it was true. There were no catchers better than him that we could get, so we paid the man. It's worked out sometimes, hasn't in others. Such is baseball.

It's not just Buck. Everyone in the lineup outside of Infante is underperforming offensively. The problem is bigger than that.

 

Stanton's actually right where he should be offensively. He started off horribly slow and has picked it up big time this month, as you know. Shows you how big his month has been. Hanley, while his OPS is a bit down, has been producing runs, as he's supposed to. Infante is overperforming big time, especially with the power. This team is doing the little things right, for the most part, and that's how you win games. Keeping games close, battling back, all that.

 

 

I made a thread about this and people were saying buck was the next best thing to sliced bread, iv been saying that we should make hayes our number 1 catcher. Where are you Benito santiago??

 

I'm pretty sure none of us said he was the next best thing to sliced bread. We said he was the best available option we could get, and at the time, it was true. There were no catchers better than him that we could get, so we paid the man. It's worked out sometimes, hasn't in others. Such is baseball.

While Hanley and GS are much improved, we would all still like to see their numbers be better and I don't think anyone on the board would say that is to much to ask for.

Giancarlo's average is actually in the "overperforming" level, at .281, considering he was a .260 hitter coming into the season. His OBP, SLG and OPS are actually right around what his career was coming into the season.

 

Sure, the OBP/SLG/OPS could be higher for GCMS, but right now it's not so bad.

 

 

Hanley, yes, we would definitely like to see higher numbers, BUT even with the lower slash line, he's driving in runs.

I believe sliced bread was referencing my ardent defense of Buck and tendency to immediately dismiss

the need for any more John Buck threads.

 

I really think we've beat this horse to death.

 

Hayes is not an everyday catcher. We have Buck for a few more years,

the pitchers like him, and when his contract is up I imagine he'll be gone. Hopefully Realmuto or another option

will be available then. Why are we still talking about this.

How anyone can defend Buck is beyond me. The guy was atrocious last year and is downright awful this year. The whole "well hes calling a good game" is overrated as well since pitchers usually throw whatever pitch they want anyway. The guy is hitting .170 and looks absolutely lost at the plate. Something has to be done sooner or later. You cant be a major league caliber player and hit 170 and expect to keep your job. He should be platooning with Hayes if anything. Hopefully we can trade him but i dont know what team would be dumb enough to pay him as much as he is robbing us right now for.

It's not just Buck. Everyone in the lineup outside of Infante is underperforming offensively. The problem is bigger than that.

 

 

Theres a difference between "underperforming" and playing like a AA player like Buck has. This guy is hitting like he has no business in the majors right now. Other players have shown signs of busting out of it (except Gaby), but Buck keeps making the same mistakes time and time again.

Buck's BABIP is at .203 this year, compared to .283 for this career. Last year it was .268.

I expect the BABIP to rise to at least around .250/.260 [or, I hope so...] Plus, if anything else ... he's at least drawing some walks. He's on pace to set a career high, I think. He's got 20, his career high [set last year] is 54. Despite batting .173, his OBP is .306.

 

I'm not defending him at any pace, I'm really sick of him swinging at the first pitch. And even worse, is he's had many more PAs where he's been ahead of the pitcher than the other way around. Batting .185 [albeit with an OBP over .500, due to the walks] when he's ahead of the pitcher. Ah well.

The fact that people are still defending this guy is just beyond me. I really don't get it. Is Hayes the overall answer? Definitely not. But you can't defend throwing a guy out there that doesn't hit and doesn't throw runners out night after night just because your backup isn't a long term problem solver.

Well, yeah you can. If you think the guy is slumping and is likely to break out of it.

Well, yeah you can. If you think the guy is slumping and is likely to break out of it.

 

So he's been slumping since 2010. K.

I've done this thing with you before, I get that it's not worth it. You don't like John Buck. Terrific.

I've done this thing with you before, I get that it's not worth it. You don't like John Buck. Terrific.

 

It's not even about that. He wasn't good last year, he's terrible this year. Facts.

He has a .203 BABIP. He is hitting for power and walking. He will likely turn it around. The team has money invested in him, and Brett Hayes has absolutely no track record of any sort of consistent production.

 

You have to give Buck the chance to turn it around, when there are signs that he will, because the upside is higher with him than Hayes.

 

But it is about you not liking John Buck. You've done this thing a bunch of times. We get it.