If Toronto makes the postseason in 2013, the Marlins will have the 4th longest playoff drought in MLB. In the majority of those seasons the Marlins have not even been legitimate playoff contenders. That's why people are upset and rightfully so.

Only the Yanks have won more WS titles than the Marlins since we started in 1993. Yes, I know a few others won 2 as well.

 

Yes, it's a playoff drought but we're still doing well title wise.

Only the Yanks have won more WS titles than the Marlins since we started in 1993. Yes, I know a few others won 2 as well.

 

Yes, it's a playoff drought but we're still doing well title wise.

 

That's our Admin - unrelentingly positive! Hang in there!

If I'm not positive, who will be?

Me.

Only the Yanks have won more WS titles than the Marlins since we started in 1993. Yes, I know a few others won 2 as well.

 

Yes, it's a playoff drought but we're still doing well title wise.

 

Well, people are mad at the current regime (not the franchise as a whole), which has only given the fanbase one title since 2002. And roughly half of the credit (if not a little more) for that title should go to the last FO for assembling those essential pieces. I wouldn't say that Loria and co. are "doing well" title wise.

 

However, it's the playoff appearances that matter most. People want to see their team actually in competition for something by late in the season. That gives fans a reason to watch and sends a message that the FO is doing something right. The Marlins seemed to think that they could buy a playoff spot in 2012. They spent the money poorly and now fans might have do endure yet a couple of additional seasons of non-contention.

 

There's also the fact that they at least appear to be completely botching Stanton's contract extension.

Nope. I'll watch every game no matter what anyone thinks about the perspicacity or lack thereof of any FO.

 

Baseball is largely a random game. Any team may beat any other team on any given day. Generally, nobody ever wins more than 60% of their games. Sub-.500 teams have made the play-offs. Everyone has a chance, every year.

 

It's a matter of the game, owners come and go.

So you are suggesting that the fate of the 2013 season will largely be determined by chance/randomness? That's an incredibly idiotic thing to say.

Only the Yanks have won more WS titles than the Marlins since we started in 1993. Yes, I know a few others won 2 as well.

 

Yes, it's a playoff drought but we're still doing well title wise.

 

It took the Marlins 11 seasons to do what the Phillies did in over a hundred

Nope. I'll watch every game no matter what anyone thinks about the perspicacity or lack thereof of any FO.

 

Baseball is largely a random game. Any team may beat any other team on any given day. Generally, nobody ever wins more than 60% of their games. Sub-.500 teams have made the play-offs. Everyone has a chance, every year.

 

It's a matter of the game, owners come and go.

 

Unless the owner won't leave and runs the team into the ground with his idiotic decisions.

Nope. I'll watch every game no matter what anyone thinks about the perspicacity or lack thereof of any FO.

 

Baseball is largely a random game. Any team may beat any other team on any given day. Generally, nobody ever wins more than 60% of their games. Sub-.500 teams have made the play-offs. Everyone has a chance, every year.

 

It's a matter of the game, owners come and go.

 

You would make a great GM.

My enthusiasm for the marlins has definitely diminished .... a complete turn from last year ... however, after a few months step back I'm on board as spring training rolls around ..... i even bought a hat with the new logo on it this month (and i've never been enthusiastic about the new logo)

 

My enthusiams for baseball? - unchanged .... if anything, it's getting stronger .... the marlins aren't baseball .... with spring training under way, the opportunity to go to another WBC game and my daughter starting to get into the game it's great .... we had a little bat & tee set and she took to it immediately and love standing in the back yard hitting and chasing .... so I bought her a glove and ball and she loves to throw and dive after the ball with her glove (actually catching a little bit, but it's tough - hey she's only 3) .... we found a place that does 3-4 year old t-ball so that is starting up in April and last weekend I had a daddy/daughter night at an ASU softball game and she had a blast .... afterwards we were able to go out on a side field where she was throwing the ball into a net for about 20 minutes running around having fun

 

The marlins can't kill baseball for me ..... they can't take away all the good memories they've provided ... they can't take away the time spent playing it growing up (even though I was completely awful at the game) ... they can't take away the feeling from watching the game .... they can't take away the fun of simply tossing a ball around or even this christmas when my daughter was using a wrapping paper roll to smack superballs out of the air in the living room

 

I'll still try to watch as many marlins games as I can .... I don't expect them to be a winning team, but I hope they are competative, I hope they are fun and I hope they are a likeable group .... I've seen a lot of bad teams on the teams I follow - the seasons where they underperform and no one seems to care are always the worst .... seasons where they are good with the fans, play hard, play right and just come up short can actually be enjoyable

Regardless of their win total, I have every expectation this year's roster will be a joy to watch daily They will play hard and it'll be a fun group.

Regardless of their win total, I have every expectation this year's roster will be a joy to watch daily They will play hard and it'll be a fun group.

 

See, I've never liked vague things like 'play hard'. What does that really even mean? I mean I don't buy the idea that some teams just loaf into the playoffs or whatever, while 'hard working' teams don't. The reality is that if you have a talented team, winning should come easy.

 

I don't have any good expectations for a team that has no offense and a pitching staff that feels like an oncoming train wreck due to a combination of mediocrity and inexperience. Who, outside of Stanton, is going to hit well this year? This roster feels like a AAA team with Stanton and Nolasco around for a rehab assignment. The infield is going to be atrocious at the plate for sure, outside of maybe LoMo if he is healthy. The same would easily be said of the outfield if Stanton wasn't there. Having 2/3 of your outfield some horrible mix and match game between Pierre, Gorkys, Coghlan, and whoever sounds like a bad time.

Playing hard = Hustling, not giving away at-bats. Hard working teams can overachieve, see the 2006 Marlins. They didn't make the playoffs but they overachieved in a big way.

 

That 2006 club was one of my favorite Marlins teams of all time and they had a losing record.

Exactly.

 

Sometimes expectations can weigh on players. Sometimes the game management can become tight. Then when things start to spiral everyone just starts gripping a little bit more. Maybe playing hard isn't the right term, maybe playing loose and just going for it. Although, there are definitely teams that as the season grinds down they're just looking to end the grind and get onto next year and those teams are awful to watch.

 

I'd love to see a team coming out with a chip on their shoulder, playing loose, playing fast and playing hard every moment ... giving no relief to their opposition either in victory or a loss.

 

Probably the best similarity I can come up with that makes sense to me is in combat sports (boxing, MMA, etc) ..... there are times when fighters get caught in the grind, even talented ones, they have a lot to lose, maybe respect their opponent too much and are out there trying to not get caught and look for an opening .... while you can appreciate the technical skill and their ability to not take damage it's usually less entertaining as a fan than watching a couple less skilled guys who dedide to just go for it and lay it all out on the line ....... Oscar De La Hoya / Floyd Mayweather fell flat despite the hype, promotion, excellent 24/7 series leading up to it and the incredible talent of the fighters .... meanwhile I could watch any ward/gatti fight at anytime

I cancelled my MLB Extra Innings package and have no plans to attend any games this year, so that pretty much answers the main question of this thread. I no longer identify myself as a Marlins fan, but having grown up in Miami, I guess I'm still interested in the team, just not from a wins and losses perspective. I'm still checking the spring training scores, but I don't really care who wins. If Loria reinvests some of that money he essentially swindled from the Miami taxpayers, then I will have to reassess the situation. Or if they get a new ownership. But my plan for now is to root for whatever team Stanton gets traded to, so I'm actually kind of hoping that happens sooner than later.

Swindled from the Miami taxpayers?

 

Right. You need to acquaint yourself with the terms of the M-D hotel bed tax. It's 6%. 1% of the 6% is dedicated to sports facilities.

 

Now, stop staying in M-D hotels so that you can avoid being "swindled."

This year's team will be fun to watch because there are no expectations and without expectations, there are no disappointments.

 

Anything is better than 2012. Last year sucked.

Swindled from the Miami taxpayers?

 

Right. You need to acquaint yourself with the terms of the M-D hotel bed tax. It's 6%. 1% of the 6% is dedicated to sports facilities.

 

Now, stop staying in M-D hotels so that you can avoid being "swindled."

 

Whatever the precise terms of the deal were, this was money raised with verbal assurances from team management to not do what they just did this past offseason. They never would have gotten the stadium built without such promises (and, you know, shame on the city government, too, obviously). It was a huge waste of money that could have been spent on something else, and now Miami has a nice new stadium for a baseball team that most of the city hates.

 

And--not that anyone cares--but I have stayed in Miami-Dade hotels, as have many of my relatives. My sister got married at the Four Seasons downtown less than 2 years ago, and given that most of our family chose to make a long weekend out of it, we should probably have been given naming rights. Doobakus Stadium has a nice ring.

Swindled from the Miami taxpayers?

 

Right. You need to acquaint yourself with the terms of the M-D hotel bed tax. It's 6%. 1% of the 6% is dedicated to sports facilities.

 

Now, stop staying in M-D hotels so that you can avoid being "swindled."

 

Whatever the precise terms of the deal were, this was money raised with verbal assurances from team management to not do what they just did this past offseason. They never would have gotten the stadium built without such promises (and, you know, shame on the city government, too, obviously). It was a huge waste of money that could have been spent on something else, and now Miami has a nice new stadium for a baseball team that most of the city hates.

That's utter and total horse hockey.

 

The city and county aren't in the business of relying on "verbal assurances" from anyone.

 

The precise terms of the deal are in writing. There are a number of contracts related to the stadium and none of them says anything whatsoever about how much the Marlins will spend in any given year or over any period of years on players.

 

And no, they couldn't have spent it on "something else." The other option was not to do the deal at all -- not to obligate future hotel bed taxes -- and watch the Marlins move elsewhere.

Playing hard = Hustling, not giving away at-bats. Hard working teams can overachieve, see the 2006 Marlins. They didn't make the playoffs but they overachieved in a big way.

 

That 2006 club was one of my favorite Marlins teams of all time and they had a losing record.

 

Wasn't that the team managed by Girardi, who was once almost fired after a game in which the team owner was an embarassment to him, and eventually fired him even though he was NL manager of the year. good times indeed,

Playing hard = Hustling, not giving away at-bats. Hard working teams can overachieve, see the 2006 Marlins. They didn't make the playoffs but they overachieved in a big way.

 

That 2006 club was one of my favorite Marlins teams of all time and they had a losing record.

 

Wasn't that the team managed by Girardi, who was once almost fired after a game in which the team owner was an embarassment to him, and eventually fired him even though he was NL manager of the year. good times indeed,

 

Girardi was out of line telling Loria to sit down and shut up regardless of if he was right, you don't tell your boss that.

Swindled from the Miami taxpayers?

 

Right. You need to acquaint yourself with the terms of the M-D hotel bed tax. It's 6%. 1% of the 6% is dedicated to sports facilities.

 

Now, stop staying in M-D hotels so that you can avoid being "swindled."

 

Whatever the precise terms of the deal were, this was money raised with verbal assurances from team management to not do what they just did this past offseason. They never would have gotten the stadium built without such promises (and, you know, shame on the city government, too, obviously). It was a huge waste of money that could have been spent on something else, and now Miami has a nice new stadium for a baseball team that most of the city hates.

That's utter and total horse hockey.

 

The city and county aren't in the business of relying on "verbal assurances" from anyone.

 

The precise terms of the deal are in writing. There are a number of contracts related to the stadium and none of them says anything whatsoever about how much the Marlins will spend in any given year or over any period of years on players.

 

And no, they couldn't have spent it on "something else." The other option was not to do the deal at all -- not to obligate future hotel bed taxes -- and watch the Marlins move elsewhere.

 

 

 

Well, no, it's not utter and total horse hockey. Look, man, if you still support Loria and the Marlins, that's fine by me. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just explaining to you where I'm coming from. I find these people morally repugnant and this was the last straw. I can't root for their baseball team. Feel free to disagree, feel free to explain WHY you disagree, but...you know...do it nicer, man. I have a very sensitive disposition.

 

As to your points, I agree with you that verbal agreements are ridiculous. What matters is on paper. And this is why the government is to blame as well...maybe even MORE to blame. But Loria and Samson were undoubtedly misleading to both the government and to the public when it comes to the payroll issue, and while they didn't do anything illegal, I'm not arguing they should be thrown in jail. I'm just saying I think they're gross and can't root for their baseball team.

 

And, yes, the alternative to the stadium tax may have been no tax at all, and I had a feeling this would be your response, and you're probably right. It's still wasted money that could have been spent on something else, if not by the Miami government, then by the tourists whose pockets Loria dipped his hands into. I didn't say it had to be spent on schools.

Cripes. I stated facts and you disputed not one of them.

 

And Loria dipped his hand into no pocket, the hotel bed tax was 6% before the stadium deal and 6% after the stadium deal. Stop with the straw men.

 

Lastly, the government is ENTIRELY to blame, not more or mostly to blame. I don't happen to think that any sports owner should be subsidized at all, ever. They could have told the Marlins to take a hike. They decided to do otherwise.

 

So, yes, it was and remains utter and total horse hockey.