We've had an entire season to look at him. I'm pretty sure he's formed an opinion via his eyes, as well.

For some reason I don't see that as an average offense. 3B, SS, and CF would still be huge liabilities. That's on top of counting on Dietrich and Morrison to improve.

 

Well, of course my scenario has its share of assumptions. It's assuming Coghlan and Lucas can handle third in a platoon capacity, which not only looks great on paper but would hopefully help keep Chris healthy. Of course SS is going to be an offensive liability, no question. Center field is a little less likely to be a problem, I am sure between Marisnick/Ozuna/Ruggiano somebody will step up. Morrison doesn't have to improve, simply maintain, but it is of my opinion he will improve. Dietrich would need minor improvement to be a serviceable starting second baseman, he left in a horrible skid that dropped his OPS to .679, and as long as he can keep it above .700 (seems likely with his power) then that's a major improvement over Solano. And again, it's actually my opinion he can post an OPS closer to .750, but I am being conservative.

 

Add McCann to this equation and you could definitely have an average major league lineup. All of the scenarios above are really not far fetched or reaching too far, but for any team to succeed things have to go right. I don't see it that way. I think a platoon of Coghlan/Lucas would be terrible. I don't want to see Marisnick or Ozuna up here at all next season, and I think the production in CF will be terrible. Likewise with SS. I don't expect Morrison to be anything more than average. That's not a lineup Stanton, McCann, Yelich and Dietrich can carry. That's assuming Dietrich will even hit well.

I think there is talent there, while he may never walk, I think eventually he will figure out how to hit some and put together around a .700 OPS.

 

 

 

What are you basing this on?Complete opinion. I don't think it will happen tomorrow or anything, but I think he has the ability to put it together, somewhat, eventually. I also think if "baseball people" didn't feel this way he wouldn't have a job. Some people rely wayyyyy too much on numbers alone much too often, use your eyes and form an opinion.

 

He's had minor league time plus time in the major leagues to prove he's not a very good hitter. Some players improve with poor minor league numbers like Molina, but that's rare. You can't just give ABs hoping he'll improve.

For some reason I don't see that as an average offense. 3B, SS, and CF would still be huge liabilities. That's on top of counting on Dietrich and Morrison to improve.

 

Well, of course my scenario has its share of assumptions. It's assuming Coghlan and Lucas can handle third in a platoon capacity, which not only looks great on paper but would hopefully help keep Chris healthy. Of course SS is going to be an offensive liability, no question. Center field is a little less likely to be a problem, I am sure between Marisnick/Ozuna/Ruggiano somebody will step up. Morrison doesn't have to improve, simply maintain, but it is of my opinion he will improve. Dietrich would need minor improvement to be a serviceable starting second baseman, he left in a horrible skid that dropped his OPS to .679, and as long as he can keep it above .700 (seems likely with his power) then that's a major improvement over Solano. And again, it's actually my opinion he can post an OPS closer to .750, but I am being conservative.

 

Add McCann to this equation and you could definitely have an average major league lineup. All of the scenarios above are really not far fetched or reaching too far, but for any team to succeed things have to go right.I don't see it that way. I think a platoon of Coghlan/Lucas would be terrible. I don't want to see Marisnick or Ozuna up here at all next season, and I think the production in CF will be terrible. Likewise with SS. I don't expect Morrison to be anything more than average. That's not a lineup Stanton, McCann, Yelich and Dietrich can carry. That's assuming Dietrich will even hit well.

 

 

 

 

Why would a Coghs/Lucas platoon be terrible? Coghs has a career .764 OPS against RHP (in over 1,000 plate appearances), and Lucas is posting a .766 OPS against LHP this year (less than 100 ab's, small sample size admittedly). And hopefully it could help keep Coghs healthy.

 

Marisnick or Ozuna should be able to step up and handle CF, and both are fantastic defensively. But even if Ruggiano is the back up plan, is that so terrible? His OPS of .703 ranks 16th in the majors among active center fielders with great defense. We should be able to get league average production from CF next year between the three of them.

Coghlan won't put up a .764 OPS vs. RHP. His career numbers are inflated by the flukey 2009 season. He's hit poorly vs. RHP this season if you haven't noticed.

 

He'd be getting most of the starts in a platoon and his production would be terrible.

Marisnick or Ozuna should be able to step up and handle CF

 

 

Based on what? Your blind optimism is becoming an annoyance. You discount statistics almost entirely and somehow pretend that every player in the organization will exceed everyone's expectations. You have nothing to back up any of these "opinions."

For some reason I don't see that as an average offense. 3B, SS, and CF would still be huge liabilities. That's on top of counting on Dietrich and Morrison to improve.

 

Well, of course my scenario has its share of assumptions. It's assuming Coghlan and Lucas can handle third in a platoon capacity, which not only looks great on paper but would hopefully help keep Chris healthy. Of course SS is going to be an offensive liability, no question. Center field is a little less likely to be a problem, I am sure between Marisnick/Ozuna/Ruggiano somebody will step up. Morrison doesn't have to improve, simply maintain, but it is of my opinion he will improve. Dietrich would need minor improvement to be a serviceable starting second baseman, he left in a horrible skid that dropped his OPS to .679, and as long as he can keep it above .700 (seems likely with his power) then that's a major improvement over Solano. And again, it's actually my opinion he can post an OPS closer to .750, but I am being conservative.

 

Add McCann to this equation and you could definitely have an average major league lineup. All of the scenarios above are really not far fetched or reaching too far, but for any team to succeed things have to go right.I don't see it that way. I think a platoon of Coghlan/Lucas would be terrible. I don't want to see Marisnick or Ozuna up here at all next season, and I think the production in CF will be terrible. Likewise with SS. I don't expect Morrison to be anything more than average. That's not a lineup Stanton, McCann, Yelich and Dietrich can carry. That's assuming Dietrich will even hit well.

 

 

Why would a Coghs/Lucas platoon be terrible? Coghs has a career .764 OPS against RHP (in over 1,000 plate appearances), and Lucas is posting a .766 OPS against LHP this year (less than 100 ab's, small sample size admittedly). And hopefully it could help keep Coghs healthy.

 

Marisnick or Ozuna should be able to step up and handle CF, and both are fantastic defensively. But even if Ruggiano is the back up plan, is that so terrible? His OPS of .703 ranks 16th in the majors among active center fielders with great defense. We should be able to get league average production from CF next year between the three of them.

 

I'm not sure Lucas's production will hold up like this. It's a small sample size.

 

Also, Ruggiano shouldn't be a starter. He performs well vs LHP but he shouldn't be a starter. Over the course of an entire season I don't think he'll produce well.

Also, Ruggiano shouldn't be a starter. He performs well vs LHP but he shouldn't be a starter. Over the course of an entire season I don't think he'll produce well.

 

 

 

0-42 slump aside, he proved this over this year.

Coghlan won't put up a .764 OPS vs. RHP. His career numbers are inflated by the flukey 2009 season. He's hit poorly vs. RHP this season if you haven't noticed.

 

He'd be getting most of the starts in a platoon and his production would be terrible.

 

 

Sometimes this board is so frustrating. I use real numbers to back an argument and they're tossed aside, and then when I use an opinion, it's thrown out because it's not based on numbers. You guys can't have it both ways, Coghlan has proven over 1,000 major league plate appearances he can hit right handed pitching. You can't just throw away an entire season because it doesn't agree with you, sorry, debates don't work that way.

 

 

 

Marisnick or Ozuna should be able to step up and handle CF

 

 

Based on what? Your blind optimism is becoming an annoyance. You discount statistics almost entirely and somehow pretend that every player in the organization will exceed everyone's expectations. You have nothing to back up any of these "opinions."

 

 

Blind optimism? Marisnick has been a top 100 prospect like every season for three years and just got done with a very good season in Jax. Give him more than 100 at bats to prove himself. Ozuna did just fine with the bat until he started to skid, and never got a chance to rebound. Both of them hit in the minors, and both of them are expected to hit in the majors, according to the vast majority. And if they both fail, Ruggiano is still here...

No idea why people think Hech can OPS .700 anytime soon. He hasn't done anything to prove he can hit that consistently here.

No idea why people think Hech can OPS .700 anytime soon. He hasn't done anything to prove he can hit that consistently here.

 

 

In 490 plate appearances at Triple-A Las Vegas in 2012: .312/.363/.424/.788.

 

Now, this ain't Triple-A. HOWEVER, there is life in his bat. There are signs that point to some talent. "Inklings" was the word someone used, and a good one to describe his offensive potential.

 

Do I personally think he's a guy that will hit for a .700 OPS next year? No. I think he's the kind of guy that may hit his stride in a few years, in his late 20's, after a few seasons under his belt. Similar to the way it took him several years in the minors to adjust and improve. As he advanced, he actually saw his numbers improve opposed to decline making his way up (.605 OPS in 2010 at A/AA, .687 OPS in 2011 at AA/AAA, and .788 OPS in 2012 in AAA alone). Maybe some of the people in our front office and some of the coaches in our dugout know what they're saying and what they're doing. Some guys don't put it together over night, give him time.

.687 OPS in 2011 at AA/AAA

 

 

He OPSed .622 in AA that year and caught fire in 25 games in AAA where he OPSed close to 1.000.

His highest OPS then came in AAA, in the PCL, a notorious HITTERS league, at .788 as you noted. Know who else can put up an OPS around that number in the PCL? Bryan Petersen.

He's not going to be a .700 OPS bat. Only one full minor league season where he had that, and again, it was in a massive hitter's league.

 

And even then, a .700 OPS ain't that great.

No idea why people think Hech can OPS .700 anytime soon. He hasn't done anything to prove he can hit that consistently here.

 

 

In 490 plate appearances at Triple-A Las Vegas in 2012: .312/.363/.424/.788.

 

Now, this ain't Triple-A. HOWEVER, there is life in his bat. There are signs that point to some talent. "Inklings" was the word someone used, and a good one to describe his offensive potential.

 

Do I personally think he's a guy that will hit for a .700 OPS next year? No. I think he's the kind of guy that may hit his stride in a few years, in his late 20's, after a few seasons under his belt. Similar to the way it took him several years in the minors to adjust and improve. As he advanced, he actually saw his numbers improve opposed to decline making his way up (.605 OPS in 2010 at A/AA, .687 OPS in 2011 at AA/AAA, and .788 OPS in 2012 in AAA alone). Maybe some of the people in our front office and some of the coaches in our dugout know what they're saying and what they're doing. Some guys don't put it together over night, give him time.

 

 

Solano OPSed .733 in AAA in 2011. Then he OPSed .717 here in 2012. If you like Hech, you have more of a reason to like Solano as a starter.

 

Look at MLEs: his 2012 line in AAA equals a .652 OPS in the majors.

 

Also, Hech isn't even good defensively. He's a -3 right now. Why do people still like this guy? It's not like he's a 20-year-old a-type. He's a 24-year-old b-type at best that isn't even playing up to that potential. Certainly not the potential we hoped for when we traded what we traded for him.

Sometimes this board is so frustrating. I use real numbers to back an argument and they're tossed aside, and then when I use an opinion, it's thrown out because it's not based on numbers. You guys can't have it both ways, Coghlan has proven over 1,000 major league plate appearances he can hit right handed pitching. You can't just throw away an entire season because it doesn't agree with you, sorry, debates don't work that way.

 

 

 

You don't use statistics properly most of the time. You don't contextualize the numbers and point out what could be a reasonable outlier.

 

Proper statistical analysis demands that one makes such decisions.

 

 

 

 

Blind optimism? Marisnick has been a top 100 prospect like every season for three years and just got done with a very good season in Jax. Give him more than 100 at bats to prove himself. Ozuna did just fine with the bat until he started to skid, and never got a chance to rebound. Both of them hit in the minors, and both of them are expected to hit in the majors, according to the vast majority. And if they both fail, Ruggiano is still here...

 

 

 

Being on the top 100 prospects list doesn't mean he'll hit big league pitching next season. He clearly couldn't handle it this year and shouldn't have been called up in the first place. What tangible statistical evidence do you have that he will suddenly hit next season in the big leagues if given the chance?

 

You assume every player meets his upside and never have any really justification for it.

I think he's the kind of guy that may hit his stride in a few years, in his late 20's, after a few seasons under his belt.

 

 

It's completely idiotic for any team to wait that long for him to prove his worth. The Marlins might say they think he's a perennial all-star now, but they aren't going to wait until his late 20s to start hitting.

 

He is the worst player in baseball this season.

Wild Card, you've got me and Penguino on the same side.

This happens once in a ...

... I think this may be the first time.

 

It's not a good thing.

I'm pretty sure we both agreed that 10/200 is an appropriate amount of a Giancarlo Stanton extension and we are both praying that he accepts.

I'm pretty sure we both agreed that 10/200 is an appropriate amount of a Giancarlo Stanton extension and we are both praying that he accepts.

 

 

No, I disagreed. I said 10/201.

I'm simply playing devils advocate, I guess. As I said, I'm an optimist, and it doesn't look like things are changing soon. They love Hech, Marisnick, etc and even if they don't they would never admit it verbally or via personnel moves.

Wait. Hech had a .780 ops in AAA? Now I have less faith in him than before.

Hech has never projected well.

 

 

Don't tell the baseball people that