February 20, 200422 yr I wonder if moneyball will be right when it concerns zito, who's K/BB have really deteriorated and Mulder's Ks went down too. I'm more of an ERA+ guy and I'm not yet counting out oakland. Oakland most likely will have the best, but it really won't surprise me if the cubs or the yankees do it, especially now that Yankee infield defense has improved and the cubs added maddux, who pitched like maddux of old after the all-star break and his K/BB was good.
February 20, 200422 yr I'm going to do NL only since Marlins are in the NL and I don't watch much AL baseball anyways so I would be too biased. 1. Cubs (with Maddux doing good) 2. Marlins 3. Phillies Marlins are definitely tied with the Cubs if Maddux gets too old.
February 20, 200422 yr 1. Cubs (with Maddux doing good) 2. Marlins 3. Phillies the Phillies?!?!?!?!? how? why? no way meng, not even top 10
February 21, 200422 yr 1. Cubs (with Maddux doing good) 2. Marlins 3. Phillies the Phillies?!?!?!?!? how? why? no way meng, not even top 10 NATIONAL LEAGUE ONLY I said
February 21, 200422 yr NATIONAL LEAGUE ONLY I said I know u said NL only, even then probably not even top 10. put it like this, their ace isnt even a real ace..............
February 21, 200422 yr yea, its pretty good. but i dont think its #3 worthy. IMO atleast Who is 3rd, the Rockies?
February 21, 200422 yr 1. Cubs 2. Yankees 3. Astros 4. Redsox 5. Marlins/Oakland I don't understand how the Astros rotation can possibly be better than the Marlins.
February 21, 200422 yr yea, its pretty good. but i dont think its #3 worthy. IMO atleast Who is 3rd, the Rockies? lmao :lol wow, only from a cubs fan................. i kno its a joke but damn!
February 21, 200422 yr 1. Cubs 2. Yankees 3. Astros 4. Redsox 5. Marlins/Oakland I don't understand how the Astros rotation can possibly be better than the Marlins. pro player stadium? our rotation is unbelievably overrated. pavano sucks and penny isn't that good, either. look at our pitchers' road ERAs last season: beckett 3.59 willis 3.63 penny 4.62 pavano 5.51 oliver 5.45 burnett will be bad b/c of tommy john rehab (he was 4.06 in 2002) astros rotation road ERAs last season: clemens 2.53 oswalt 3.59 redding 3.91 pettitte 4.24 miller 4.30 it's not even close.
February 21, 200422 yr They should be able to use being in a pitcher's park to their advantage, what's the big deal? We will see what team's rotation has an overall better ERA this coming season. Besides, I would imagine almost every pitcher is better in their home park....you get fan support and all that stuff.
February 21, 200422 yr 1. Cubs 2. Yankees 3. Astros 4. Redsox 5. Marlins/Oakland I don't understand how the Astros rotation can possibly be better than the Marlins. pro player stadium? our rotation is unbelievably overrated. pavano sucks and penny isn't that good, either. look at our pitchers' road ERAs last season: beckett 3.59 willis 3.63 penny 4.62 pavano 5.51 oliver 5.45 burnett will be bad b/c of tommy john rehab (he was 4.06 in 2002) astros rotation road ERAs last season: clemens 2.53 oswalt 3.59 redding 3.91 pettitte 4.24 miller 4.30 it's not even close. And yet our rotation is much younger and has yet to reach its potential. The Astros are NOT better than us, and our rotation is in NO way overrated. Our rotation has yet to peak. If Pavano and Penny suck, then today is the end of the world. Pavano has a great slider/change combo, and is more accurate than most pitchers in the game. He changes his pitches up very well and rarely walks anyone. Not to mention he is just 27-years-old. Penny is just 25, and has Josh Beckett stuff. 95 MPH+ fastball, 12-6 curve, and a high-speed change-up that absolutely falls off the table. HIS problem is not ability, but emotion. Alkazoid, at some point you need to believe that stats AREN'T everything (contrary to what many, including me, will make you believe). Going by talent, the Marlins have by far a better rotation at the moment than Houston. The only reason that they have the upper hand statistically is experience. Marlins rotation > Astros rotation
February 22, 200422 yr If Pavano and Penny suck, then today is the end of the world. you're correct. i'm sorry. "sucks" is too harsh of a word to describe pavano. i'd say at this point he is below average for a major league pitcher, but he doesn't suck. pavano is 28, so he's young, yes, but he really hasn't had a breakout year his entire career. i don't expect him to be anything better than "average" in 2004--the season we're concerned with. wade miller is younger than pavano and he's much better and has much more potential than him. brad penny is young, yes. so is tim redding, who is 3 months older than brad. tim redding >> brad penny in 2003 and it'll probably be that way in 2004 as well. josh beckett is our young and awesome ace. roy oswalt is their young and awesome ace. oswalt > beckett in 2003. their non-ringers are all very young. they've got great young pitching PLUS experienced workhorse winners. if you want to compare each rotation member looking at age and park-adjusted ERA, let's do this: ASTROS 1. roy oswalt (age 26) 149 ERA+ 2. roger clemens (age 41) 112 ERA+ 3. andy pettitte (age 31) 109 ERA+ 4. tim redding (age 26) 120 ERA+ 5. wade miller (age 27) 107 ERA+ MARLINS 1. josh beckett (age 23) 132 ERA+ 2. dontrelle willis (age 22) 122 ERA+ 3. brad penny (age 25) 98 ERA+ 4. carl pavano (age 28) 94 ERA+ 5. darren oliver (age 33) 94 ERA+ 5. aj burnett (age 27) will not be good in 2004 or this: ACE: roy oswalt (age 26) 149 ERA+ josh beckett (age 23) 132 ERA+ #2: roger clemens (age 41) 112 ERA+ dontrelle willis (age 22) 122 ERA+ #3: andy pettitte (age 31) 109 ERA+ brad penny (age 25) 98 ERA+ #4: tim redding (age 26) 120 ERA+ carl pavano (age 28) 94 ERA+ #5: wade miller (age 27) 107 ERA+ darren oliver (age 33) 94 ERA+ aj burnett (age 27) will not be good in 2004 which rotation do you honestly think will be better this year? the only pitching matchup there we'd win would be 2003 clemens vs. 2003 d-train, and most people expect d-train's numbers to slip in 2004.
February 22, 200422 yr They should be able to use being in a pitcher's park to their advantage, what's the big deal? it's no big deal at all. marlins pitchers give up fewer runs in PPS. opposing teams' pitchers also give up fewer runs in PPS. it's a pitchers' park, so everyone has a lower ERA there. that doesn't mean a pitcher who pitches there is more talented than a pitcher who pitches elsewhere. if you want to compare stats of pitchers, look at park-adjusted ERAs or compare road ERAs.
February 24, 200422 yr 1. Red Sox (come on Schilling and Pedro are the 2 best pitchers in baseball, and lets not forget to mention Lowe) 2. A's (This fearsome 3-some is so good, but you can't score runs with only 3 good players on your team in the AL, especially when those 3 good ones are all pitchers) 3. Cubs (2 young guns with Wood & Prior, then throw in Maddux who is still an All Star caliber guy....tough to beat it) 4. Astros (Oswalt, Clemens, Pettite....3 names that make you say, OUCH!) 5. Yankees (Mussina, Contreras, Vazquez, and on and on, the names alone make them Top 5, not to mention the fact that they are good anyways) 6. Marlins (AJ, Willis, Josh, good staff, but far from the Top 2-3, yes they won a World Series, but D-Willis crashed in the 2nd half of the year, Josh though was great in the Playoffs, still has injury problems, but a fabulous staff, you don't win a Championship without a good staff)
April 27, 200422 yr well well.... seems that the vaunted Yankee staff has not been so great afterall.
April 27, 200422 yr 1. Athletics, Oakland 2. Marlins, Florida (based on when Burnett comes back) 3. Cubs, Chicago (based on when Prior comes back) 4. Astros, Houston (based on when Pettitte comes back) 5. Red Sox, Boston Those are the rankings, and don't argue with me because i'm never wrong. :thumbup :lol
April 27, 200422 yr funny how Sorianofan only mentioned the Yanks and hasn't come back. here's my take ... although this was done earlier in the season A's Cubs Red Sox Houston Marlins
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