repeatin04

Rotation should be in better hands with Redmond catching. Redmond is better handler of pitchers than Pudge. Knock on Pudge is he isn't much for handling pitchers. Staff is in better hands now that Pudge is bye bye bye.? :hat The champ Pudge seemed to handle the pitchers pretty well last year. And you think Redmond will start over Castro (assuming his legal troubles are behind him)? Redmond has the inside edge. Both will get about 80 starts. Maybe an 85-75 breakdown. Pudge wasn't much of a factor handling the pitchers. They were in good hands with Rosenthal/McKeon. :hat The champ If Pudge wasn't a factor, why do you think the pitchers "should be in better hands with Redmond catching"? McKeon and Rosenthal, who you credit more than Pudge, are still there. Because Redmond actually attends pitchers meetings, something Pudge didn't do. You don't understand how much Pudge was into being a STAR. Redmond actually talks pitching with the pitchers. Pudge talks about being Pudge. :hat The champ http://www.canoe.ca/Slam031019/mlb_ws1-sun.html 2003: The year Pudge changed By BOB ELLIOTT -- Toronto Sun NEW YORK -- You never really know who will show in the World Series. Well, we knew as early as the 11th inning of Game 7 -- when Aaron Boone put his name alongside the likes of Joe Carter, Bill Mazeroski and Todd Pratt with a walk-off homer, ousting the Boston Red Sox 6-5 in 11 innings -- that the New York Yankees would be attending. But go back a year ago today. Ivan (Pudge) Rodriguez was as welcome in the Texas Rangers clubhouse as a herd of Brahma bulls. He did not think he'd be hitting third in the Florida Marlins lineup, standing along the third base line, during the pre-game introductions. A year ago today, Jack McKeon was home in Elon, N.C., watching the World Series on television like every other former manager and general manager. Last night, as manager of the Marlins, the 72-year-old shook hands with Yankees manager Joe Torre at home plate. This is the 100th World Series, with the tradition-rich Yankees, going for their 27th championship against the Florida Marlins, the best in baseball no one knows, looking to win their sixth consecutive post-season series. A year ago, the Rangers had zero interest in bringing free agent Rodriquez back on a long-term contract or a month-long contract. Rodriguez didn't regularly attend the pitchers meetings, where all teams have to go over opposing hitters before each series. He didn't call a good game, showing a preference for fastballs in running situations. He was selfish. Those were some of the things Rangers people, who liked Rodriguez, would say. Free agent Jim Thome joined the Philadelphia Phillies and Tom Glavine, another free agent, signed a New York Mets contract long before Christmas. Both were long-term deals. Rodriguez should have been in the same group -- as the best catcher since Gary Carter. Yet, the Chicago Cubs backed away. So, did others. On Jan. 22, 2003, less than a month before pitchers and catchers reported for spring training, Rodriguez signed a one-year, show-us-if-you-have-anything-left $10-million US deal with the Marlins. Since the Rangers' ERA climbed as high as the peak of the Six Flags roller coaster near the Ballpark in Arlington, it became an issue that Rodriguez wasn't much for meetings. Backups Bill Haselman and Todd Greene formulated game plans with starting pitcher. "It was not so much a matter of how much he went to meetings, but how attentive he was," another Ranger said. "He didn't seem interested in getting that extra edge anymore." With the Marlins, he has been at meetings, he has stayed awake and he has been a one-man show this post-season helping Florida to upset playoff wins over the San Francisco Giants and the Chicago Cubs. And he attended one meeting with the Marlins and pitching coach Wayne Rosenthal to go over Yankees hitters. Rodriguez won the National League Championship Series most valuable player award hitting .321 (9-for-28) with two homers and 10 RBIs. Rodriguez has a hit in all 11 post-season games. "I was injured in my final year in Texas," Rodriguez, 32, said. "Finally, I'm healthy, I played over 150 games, all the games in the playoffs performing the way I wanted." Rodriguez is nicknamed Pudge, after Carlton Fisk, the former Chicago White Sox and Boston Red Sox Hall of Fame catcher. "He's one of my heroes as a child and I respect him a lot, my nickname belongs to him," Rodriguez said. The day Rodriguez signed with the Marlins, he predicted his new club could make the post-season. "I'm not a negative person," he said, "I wanted to show the world that Ivan Rodriguez is healthy and has a lot of years left." Not to mention a contract for next season. McKeon thought his baseball days were done. He had been the GM of the San Diego Padres, who lost the 1984 World Series to the Detroit Tigers. He had not managed since he was with the Cincinnati Reds in 2000. "A year ago, I was sitting at home, watching guys ask questions of the managers and the players," McKeon said in a pre-game news conference. "Now, here, a year later, I don't have to tell you, it's a tremendous thrill to be here. "These are the best young guys I've ever had anything to do with. I managed, I don't know, 13, 14 years. Whenever I've been in the big leagues, I've never had a team I enjoyed more. That's the reason we're all in Yankee Stadium." A write in Toronto doesn't know. Pudge didn't attend meetings with pitchers with the Marlins. Now this doesn't mean he NEVER attended a meeting. But Pudge wasn't a rgular in meetings. Ask any media person who covered the team this. They can tell you. Maybe you don't know any media people. Others are in the know. :hat The champ. Ask where Pudge went in May when the season was heading south. Pudge went AWOL. When Tigers flop, Pudge will be out of Detroit on personal trips all the time.

Just stop the idiocy...please. Injury free STILL didn't make him a better pitcher. and its PAVANO. Beckett and Carl Milano both have endured injuries. So has AJ. All three are regarded by the front office as better than Redman. You are entitled to your opinion. In this case, it is wrong. Milano is better than Redman. The front office says so. The playoffs said so. The fact that Milano throws in the mid 90s and Red can't reach 88 is more proof. Oliver is close to an even trade off with Redman. For a lot less money. These are the facts. :hat The champ

Come down, hes only going to start 4 or 5 times, and after that we have a solid lefty in the pen. what do you want randy johnson?? finally, perspective. perfect point. With Oliver, Marlins rotation heads into the season as good as anyone in the baseball. Marlins run out five starters that rank up there with Cubs, Astros, Dodgers, anyone. :hat The champ

Pudge talks about being Pudge.? :hat The champ You mean the way the way you talk ABOUT BEING you ????? Narcissists of the world unite ! lolololol :hat The Champ = :disguise2 The Chump personal attacks are immature. Please stick to the topics of the boards and refrain from the insulting. :hat The champ

The scouts apparently aren't the only ones who need convincing. After finishing third behind Willis and Milwaukee's Scott Podsednik in the Rookie of the Year voting, Arizona starter Brandon Webb said he was surprised Willis won the award. "He didn't do anything in the second half," Webb told reporters on a conference call. Willis, who received a congratulatory call from Podsednik, seems more amused than angered by Webb's comments. "When I heard about it, I just laughed," Willis said. "It sounded like he was real bitter. I was like, 'Dude, get over it. I didn't vote on it.' " this part is great Why is Webb such a b***h? :tissue Webb's whining and D Train's maturity is why people who truly know would rather have Willis. Dontrelle is 3 yrs younger than Webb. D Train is a lefty. D Train doesn't get caught up in personal stats, and worries about winning rather than his WHIP. Go D Train. :hat The champ

D Train ready to win 20 this year. Go Dontrelle. 20 wins is a great accomplishment, regardless what some fans think. Winning the games is the most important thing. :hat The champ

Ollie is Kevin Olsen's nickname. If he meant Oliver, he should say so. Clarity is important. :hat The champ

ACtually old ollie isnt as bad as I once thought as hes been just a little below league average the past few years...still Id rather have Wayne or Olsen for 300k as the emergency starter...why did we need to bring this guy in? Olsen isn't on the 40 man roster anymore. He is barely on the 3A team. Wayne is in steep decline. Went to Puerto Rico and was terrible. Wayne is a bust. You are making a case for two guys with really no chance of making it to the bigs. Oliver has 83 or so career wins. This is an amazing post that I'm responding to. My passion for educating causes me to do so, to be a teacher to those thirsty for knowledge. :hat The champ. I cant argue with some guy who thinks wins has anything to do with ability...but just for kicks. I wasnt making a "case" for these guys, but I was just presenting some alternatives to ollie. Not that hes bad or anything but is he anymore than a stop gap until AJ comes and then he'll be the middle reliever. Why not give that spot to Wayne who had a very solid comeback after his injury in july? Who cares about the small sample of the very hitter friendly puerto rican league? And can you disagree with someone without thinking your some hot s*** or something? jesus. I repeat. Ollie isn't on the roster. Wayne is a bust. Look at how he did in Puerto Rico. Wayne is NOT part of the plans. You never see Wayne's name or Ollie's name in the mix of pitchers in the hunt for the fifth spot. Even before the brilliant Oliver signing, none of the local media outlets noted Ollie or Wayne. Ollie, I repeat, is not on the squad. He has a minor league contract and will be lucky to be around. Sorry, but wins are the measure. Otherwise they wouldn't keep track. A guy who is 12 years in the league and has won more than he lost and has over 80 wins is doing something right. For a fifth starter, he is a brilliant pickup. :hat The champ

Rotation should be in better hands with Redmond catching. Redmond is better handler of pitchers than Pudge. Knock on Pudge is he isn't much for handling pitchers. Staff is in better hands now that Pudge is bye bye bye.? :hat The champ Pudge seemed to handle the pitchers pretty well last year. And you think Redmond will start over Castro (assuming his legal troubles are behind him)? Redmond has the inside edge. Both will get about 80 starts. Maybe an 85-75 breakdown. Pudge wasn't much of a factor handling the pitchers. They were in good hands with Rosenthal/McKeon. :hat The champ If Pudge wasn't a factor, why do you think the pitchers "should be in better hands with Redmond catching"? McKeon and Rosenthal, who you credit more than Pudge, are still there. Because Redmond actually attends pitchers meetings, something Pudge didn't do. You don't understand how much Pudge was into being a STAR. Redmond actually talks pitching with the pitchers. Pudge talks about being Pudge. :hat The champ

repeatin04 Have you called yourself the champ on every thread? is it that important to you? :hat The champ

Rotation should be in better hands with Redmond catching. Redmond is better handler of pitchers than Pudge. Knock on Pudge is he isn't much for handling pitchers. Staff is in better hands now that Pudge is bye bye bye. :hat The champ Pudge seemed to handle the pitchers pretty well last year. And you think Redmond will start over Castro (assuming his legal troubles are behind him)? Redmond has the inside edge. Both will get about 80 starts. Maybe an 85-75 breakdown. Pudge wasn't much of a factor handling the pitchers. They were in good hands with Rosenthal/McKeon. :hat The champ

ACtually old ollie isnt as bad as I once thought as hes been just a little below league average the past few years...still Id rather have Wayne or Olsen for 300k as the emergency starter...why did we need to bring this guy in? Olsen isn't on the 40 man roster anymore. He is barely on the 3A team. Wayne is in steep decline. Went to Puerto Rico and was terrible. Wayne is a bust. You are making a case for two guys with really no chance of making it to the bigs. Oliver has 83 or so career wins. This is an amazing post that I'm responding to. My passion for educating causes me to do so, to be a teacher to those thirsty for knowledge. :hat The champ.

Just keep Joshua Patrick and Bradley Wayne away from Aaron Boone. :hat The champ

support the Marlins. Visit the caravan stops. Enjoy. Go Marlins. It is so cool that we will have seven straight days of meeting Blaine Neal. :hat The champ

Joshua Pactrick Bradley Wayne Carl Milano D Train Oliver/Burnett Rotation should be in better hands with Redmond catching. Redmond is better handler of pitchers than Pudge. Knock on Pudge is he isn't much for handling pitchers. Staff is in better hands now that Pudge is bye bye bye. :hat The champ

This thread can close. Clear winner of this post are the supporters of signing Oliver. Umm....that's not how this message board works. put a ribbon on this message board. Those supporting the Oliver signing made strong, more intelligent, more compelling arguments. Case closed. Decision, pro Oliver. :hat The champ

Guys, PAvano/Milano/madeupname-ano is not as good as redman.? you can't take one postseason and say he's better than an obviously superior pitcher. Would you want sterling hitchcock on your team?? He's a postseason god. I think your overrating Redman just a bit. Hes never had a era under 4 until this year and in the 2nd half he did terrible. Hes career era is 4.27 with a whip of 1.34 and Baa of .265. I think we can afford to lose him especially when Burnett comes back we shouldnt be missing him that much. From all the people we lost hes probably the least signficant from Lee, Pudge, and him. Carl PAvano career era 4.59 and era+ 93 133K 2.7 K/BB 19 HR 1.26 Whip era last season 4.30 (era+ 94) 6.2 innings per start 12-13 WL Mark Redman career era 4.29 and era+ 104 151K 12.5 K/BB 16 HR 1.22 Whip era last season 3.59 (era+ 112) 6.6 innings per start 14-9 WL I repeat, Redman IS the superior pitcher when compared to Pavano. I see this has a 100% fact, Redman has Pavano beat in EVERY catagory besides K/BB, and the difference there really isn't that much greater.. That's hard to do. Give Redman the respect he deserves. Without him, you would of never won wildcard. Redman after all star break: 3.94 era 7-5 Pavano after all star break: 4.14 6-3 Again, Redman was ALWAYS better. Redman isn't better than Carl Milano. The team feels Milano is about to become the pitcher he was supposed to be. Last year he was injury free for the first time. Great things are expected. Two years in a row, Redman had deadarm late. Face it Marlins aren't World champs without Milano stepping up at SF in Game 2 of that series. Milano dominated the Yankees in Game 4 and would have beaten Rocket had Urbina not choked. Redman had one career year. Power pitchers are more important than finesse guys. Redman was as good as he is going to be last year. Marlins front office knows that Milano is better that's why they dealt Redman. Team decided which of the two to keep, they kept Milano. Smart move. Sorry, but you are proven wrong by me and the front office. When you put together a world series title team, you can dispute the front office. Until then, your opinion is groundless. Clear decision on this argument to the front office over you. Milano over Red. :hat The champ

Yeah, 10 for 50, I'm happy too, but that's still really not a great reason to be included for why we got Oliver.? After he gets his 4 or 5 starts til' Burnett comes back, he'll have even less chances to get that game-winning RBI. gee, if you think pitchers can't help their cause at the plate, you are greatly mistaken. Dontrelle's bat helped him get a few wins. Obviously, Oliver was signed for his pitching. My point correctly notes Oliver provides what Redman did, for much less money. Fact that Oliver can help the team with his bat too is a plus. So really I'm not sure what your point is. Redman faded miserably and the fact remains, when AJ is ready, Redman wouldn't have cracked the rotation of Josh, Brad, Pav, D Train and AJ. So Oliver is clearly a smart signing. :hat The champ I never said pitchers CAN'T help their cause, and I never said Oliver wasn't a smart signing, but just because they may go 1-4 in a game doesn't really justify that Oliver is THAT much better than Redman. When comparing pitchers, compare their PITCHING stats. Their hitting stats shouldn't be compared, because that's not generally a big component of their repetoire. Mike Hampton is one of the only pitchers I can think of that you could make a point about their hitting being a strength. Oliver may hit .150 as compared to Redman's .029, but that's only about 6 hits difference. I never said Oliver is THAT much better than Redman. I am defending the move and saying Oliver is a nice tradeoff for Redman, who isn't as good as Carl Milano (and yes, if they marry, Carl will be known as Milano not Alyssa as a Pavano, she's the bigger star with more $$$$). I like the thinking of the front office. Instead of paying Redman 3.9, they keep Pav-lano, then with Red's cash they sign, AJ, Oliver and bring in Neu. Three pitchers all for about the same 3.9 mil Red is getting in Oakland. Plus, I still maintain that Red wouldn't crack a rotation of AJ, Josh, Bradley Wayne, Carl Milano and D Train. :hat The champ

We already know that you have said since the beginning that Pudge isn't coming back. You can stop telling us now. Not everyone is convinced Pudge isn't coming back. Don't jump on the bandwagon. It wasn't until I accurately stated that such a scenario had ZERO chance of happening. Some need reminding that Pudge will not return. For the purpose of educating and informing, I share my vast insights. It is a gift. :hat The champ

guys, oliver is heavily a groundball pitcher. he doesn't benefit from PPS as others might, and he might even do worse. he is the ideal sort of pitcher for coors since he doesn't pop up the ball too much, but he is not the ideal sort of guy who would benefit from playing here.? the mark redman analogy is totally off. last year he was much better at coors than on the road.? that tells you something, though it's probably not very statistically significant. he's supposed to be our crappy #5 guy, so i guess i can deal with him.? the $750k is the part that sucks. Wait a sec - we have one of the better defenses in all of baseball behind him. How does this NOT benefit Oliver - I will give you a pass on this one, Alk. Smokin too much crack... a groundball pitcher doesn't benefit from pro player stadium as others might. that's not so difficult to believe, is it jonny? bottom line, Marlins are in awesome shape for a fifth starter. Redman wasn't going to win a spot in the rotation once AJ returns. This thread can close. Clear winner of this post are the supporters of signing Oliver. Brilliant signing, much more cost effective than overpaying Redman, who only had numbers because of superior defense by the Marlins. Every pitcher benefits pitching in the Pro. Every pitcher benefits with the Marlins defense behind them. Remember that Redman was lazy and it is his laziness that resulted in D Lee separating his shoulder. Red offered nothing offensively. Oliver will help his cause with the bat. He is a team player with a proven track record for winning. Another example of why the Marlins are in strong position to repeat. This topic is one sided in favor of the THUMBS UP to Oliver. :hat The champ

I'm not sure I've written this before, but Pudge was NEVER coming back to the Marlins. There was ZERO chance of that happening. I'm glad he is gone because he didn't want to return. Pudge also is going to be a DH in Detroit when he isn't going AWOL because of all the losing. No way Pudge was going to play 144 games with the Marlins this season. So he isn't worth the money. Castro/Redmond are just fine. Pudge isn't a team guy. I pointed this out numerously. In case any missed my insights they were on other Pudge related boards. You heard it hear first.? :hat The champ You really got to stop saying that and start ruining a topic like that. pardon? :hat The champ

Hey reaptin04 its Carl Pavano in case you didnt get the message. when Carl marries Alyssa, it will be Carl Milano, Mensa Child. Out of the kindness of my heart, I inform you not only of the baseball facts, but of the dating habits of the players as well. You are welcome in advance of my kindness to share my vast knowledge and insights. :hat The champ

Cordero is a bench player. Purely depth. Choi will start. As for Pudge, there was ZERO chance of him ever returning to the Marlins. I accurately said that from the start. The fact that Pudge didn't wait til May 1 is proof of how correct I was. :hat The champ lololololol The Champ :hat = The Chump :disguise2 can't dispute the undisputed truthteller. I don't know if I noted this yet, if I have, please forgive the repetitiveness. I, and only I, said there was NO way Pudge would sign with the Marlins. Not 25% not 5%. ZERO chance. I don't like to brag about such things, but for the purpose of educating our baseball-challenged market, I do so out of the kindness of my heart. :hat The champ

Losing Redman was nullified by the addition of Oliver Redman was one of the best pitchers on your staff while Darren Oliver is a 5 ERA innings eater. That was the worst trade the Marlins made during the off-season in my honest opinion. Redman wouldn't start in the rotation when AJ returns. Redman couldn't beat out AJ, Josh, Bradley Wayne, Carl Milano or D Train :hat The champ. carl milano? he is MOST definitely better than CARL PAVANO!!! He was your second best pitcher last year, better than Penny and Pavano (possibly D Train because he's more proven.) Trading him was an act of lunacy. Marlins prefer Carl Milano over Redman. Carl is a superior pitcher to Redman. If you watched the playoffs, you clearly would have seen that. Also if you paid attention to the second half numbers. The FO had a chance to keep or trade Carl Milano and Red. They paid Milano 3.8 mil and made a steal of a trade, unloading Red for Neu. then with the total dollars, signed AJ and added Oliver, a brilliant move. Go Marlins. :hat The champ

Losing Redman was nullified by the addition of Oliver Redman was one of the best pitchers on your staff while Darren Oliver is a 5 ERA innings eater. That was the worst trade the Marlins made during the off-season in my honest opinion. Redman wouldn't start in the rotation when AJ returns. Redman couldn't beat out AJ, Josh, Bradley Wayne, Carl Milano or D Train :hat The champ.