Out of the Past

I was wondering if anyone has heard anything else from Hank on this topic. On another board someone posted Hank's take on Hialeah, Pompano, downtown and Loria getting pushed out. You can read it here: http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/art...;channel=Sports

Milton Bradley a free agent?

I wish there was a map with the Hialeah city limits and the stadium location. I think the stadium would be a few miles away from the rest of Hialeah. I'm not 100% sure about that. Good enough for you? Perfect. Thank you. That's exactly what I was looking for. That location is technically in Hialeah but it's not really Hialeah. It's in the middle of nowhere. That other map illustrates the location problem. So Fla is a rectangle about 100 miles long and about 12 miles wide and wherever you put a stadium a lot of people will be over an hour away.

are these good number's? Not at all. Big drop-off from last year. I can't believe the ratings were higher than the heat's. It's probably cuz heat fans actually go to the games. There are more Marlins fans that Heat fans. You are terribly mistaken. I can't think of a better way to measure it than TV ratings and the Marlins blow away the Heat in that department. If you go by talk radio one would think the Heat because talk radio is about the Dolphins and then the Heat but that's because the hosts are for the most part not baseball fans and if they are baseball fans they have baseball after football and basketball. Just my opinion.

are these good number's? Not at all. Big drop-off from last year. I can't believe the ratings were higher than the heat's. It's probably cuz heat fans actually go to the games. I can. There are more Marlins fans that Heat fans. The buzz around town for the Heat in the finals didn't compare to the '03 WS. I really doubt that dude. Most people didn't start to watch the marlins in '03 until they started getting hot around mid-season. Shaq and Wade create more buzz alone than the entire marlins team IMO. The local TV ratings for the '03 WS were in the high 30s but the ratings for the '06 NBA finals were "only" in the high 20's.

are these good number's? Not at all. Big drop-off from last year. I can't believe the ratings were higher than the heat's. It's probably cuz heat fans actually go to the games. I can. There are more Marlins fans that Heat fans. The buzz around town for the Heat in the finals didn't compare to the '03 WS.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/15691659.htm The 150 Marlins games on FSN and Sun finished with a 2.9 rating -- down from a 4.2 for 95 Marlins games on FSN last season but topping the 2.3 for regular-season 2005-06 Heat games on Sun.

I don't know about this whole "it's gotta be downtown" mentality. Just for some background, I actually live in downtown Miami. And, I am also a member of the "legal community" who works in downtown miami for/with these entities that would fork over the serious cash for leasing a corporate box. So, I wouldn't mind a ballpark in downtown Miami at all. However, IMO the only reason to have a downtown stadium is for the walk-up crowd (if such a thing exists). With 81 home games a year, it's tough to fill a stadium on the weekdays without a walk-up crowd. And, having lived in places where such a downtown stadium exists, I can tell you that the after-work crowd comprises the majority of the seats during the weekdays. However, not many people actually work/live in downtown Miami. Miami is not like other major cities, such as Houston, etc., that have a population that works exclusively in one area (downtown) and lives exclusively in another (the burbs). Pretty much nobody with disposable income lives in downtown Miami (despite the condo boom, many are empty and none are actually near the location proposed by the Miami arena), and very few people (other than lawyers and accountants) work in downtown Miami. Many of the entities listed by SoFlaFish don't even have their main offices in downtown Miami. It is simply a myth that enough people live/work in downtown Miami to constitute a significant walk-up crowd, particularly if you build the stadium by the Miami Arena site. If anything, a stadium would need to be built around Brickell Avenue, and there is simply no room. The best site is where the AAA sits, and John Henry already tried (and failed) to get a stadium built in the park adjacent to it. The entities that have their corporate headquarters in Miami would shell out the dough for these luxury boxes no matter where the stadium is located. I've personally sat in many of the boxes leased by these "Miami" corporations and entities at both Dolphin Stadium and the BankAtlantic Center, neither of which are even located in Dade County. A brand new Pompano stadium will still have Lennar, Burger King, Office Depot (corp. headquarters in Delray), etc. dishing out the cash. I HATE the idea of a stadium in Hialeah, but if it goes there at least there is the POTENTIAL of walk-up crowds (since many live in the area). The problem there is that you alientate the WPB crowd and probably don't have a large walk-up crowd anyway, considering that Hialeah is not an area recognized as being comprised of residents with high disposable incomes. So, since you HAVE to put the stadium in a central location for commuting, it makes the most sense to have the stadium in Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano, etc. That way, you can attract commuters from all over South Florida. The Pompano location is central, and is close enough to Ft. Lauderdale to draw off of a heavily populated area with the suburbs only a short drive away. I vote Pompano (although for personal reasons I'd love them to build it in downtown Miami). I wish there was a map with the Hialeah city limits and the stadium location. I think the stadium would be a few miles away from the rest of Hialeah. I'm not 100% sure about that.

Hank was, and perhaps still is Joe Arriola's main media mouthpiece. It's not surprising this would come out today, especially not from Hank. Actually I think it's a silly notion, the litigation would go on for so many years Selig wouldn't live long enough to see a new owner. Besides nothing DuPuy or Selig have said indicates their displeasure here other than their frustration with corrupt banana republic politicos and the general comment that I think is shared by everyone, that the status quo is unacceptable. The next CBA will address some of the issues with the game but as long as the Yankees can use $$$ that should be going to the best interests of baseball for their own purposes, this problem is miniscule in comparison. Yeah, banana republic politicos like Foley and Winton and Art Teele, etc. Actually I was thinking more of ex-City Manager Joe "Boy that fire fee fiasco was really something, huh" Arriola and Manny "A guy's got to make a living" Diaz and before them "Crazy" Joe Carollo who replaced "Mayor Loco" Xavier Saurez who was thrown out of office four months into his term after widespread voter fraud was discovered (note: neither "Crazy" nor "Mayor Loco" are of my invention). Certainly Art Teele and Johnny Winton, and let's not forget Miriam Alonso or Joe Gersten, get honorable mention but they play supporting roles to some of our more "unique" mayors and city managers. I'm no fan of any of your banana republic guys but in the corruption ladder these guys are a few notches below the Warshaws, Dawkins, Teeles and Gerstens who ended in jail, dead or in Australia after fleeing the country. I agree the banana republic guys have the wittier nicknames.

Downtown. -- higher corporate revenues -- more public transportation -- more centrally located for the fan base -- will provide more of an economic boost to the local economy -- higher walk-up sales than the other locations One of the latest bogus arguments against downtown is that the Heat doesn't draw well in downtown. Since the AAA was built 7 years ago the Heat's average attendance is a little higher (about 1%) than the NBA's average attendance. Would MLB be happy if over the first 7 years in a new stadium the Marlins average attendance was 1% higher than the rest of MLB over those 7 years? Absolutely.

it boggles the mind that this owner was allowed to buy the Marlins on credit of course our payroll is by far is the lowest in the game and even teams in comparable circumstances spend significantly more than this ownership group . I would love for the Marlins ownership to have open its books and lets see really how much money they are making The Marlins went all they way to the bare walls because $40 million would not have made for a better team. This ownership group has spent the most on players of any Marlins ownership group, and frankly I doubt there will be any great aversion to a larger payroll this coming season. Olivo, Helms, Willis, and Cabrera will be back. The veteran bullpen pitchers will not (and will not be missed). Expect the team to try another Marlins closer reclaimation project, and another bullpen arm. More of the prospects will be up in the pen and I wouldn't be suprised when Nalasco is traded for a CF. I don't know how you're looking at it but if you look at it in relative terms to what other teams spent each particular year then I don't think you would correct. The Marlins have been towards the bottom in salary every year except '97 when we were towards the top and '96 when we were in the middle. In '05 I think we were about 20th and I think taht's the only other year we haven't been in the bottom 5.

The first time I read Rferry's message I had no idea what he was talking about but then read it again and also read what he was responding to and then I understood him and pretty much agreed with him.

Judging by what I've seen from downtown stadiums, I hate them. PETCO Park is located in the worst possible place. You cannot park at the stadium. You have to park at Qualcomm / Jack Murphy and park and ride the trolley 20 minutes to get to the game. The only other option is going into the downtown area and spending hours looks for an open Ace parking lot and spending 20 bucks to park for the game. Going on this and the fact of how horrible a sports town San Diego is, I'm very surprised the Padres are still able to sell games out. whats wrong with PETCO? you park your car at a trolley station and take the damn train to the game. The trolley is pretty convenient, so why would you want to drive when theres a trolley? and if the idea is SO awful, then why do they sell out? :blink: Oh please...the stadium is on the countyline... I think it's like 8 blocks from Broward. Kendall, South Miami, those areas further south may be in Miami-Dade but Palm Beachers can get to the Stadium quicker than they cna. Exactly. DS is much more convenient to Broward residents than Dade, and Dade still is the largest draw of the 3 counties. If you put the stadium in Pompano or some other piece of sh*t city in Broward, youll just have a stadium that isnt convenient to anybody Yawn. Is Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park convenient for anyone? Or Shea? What does Miami want, it put right under their nose so they can fall out the door? Good teams in good markets draw fans, regardless of the "convenience." For the life of me, I still can't understand why anyone thinks rain, heat or traffic exist only in Miami. Yankee, Fenway, and Shea are all on transit lines. Not to mention that sports cities dont get much better than New York and Boston, so of course theyll show up...and people would do whatever it takes to make it to a game at Fenway and Yankee also, you really cant underrate the weather factor in Miami. its one of the most (if not the most) uncomfortably hot cities in the US. Phoenix might be worse...but they have a dome and we dont. fact is, Miami is a sh*tty sports town and people wont show up unless a) it becomes popular to do so (2003) or b) its convenient as hell to show up. putting the stadium in Broward would be an awful idea Fine, then Dodger stadium. Traffic is 100000000000000000000000000X worse, there's no public transportation of note, it's out of the city proper, day games are hotter, much hotter (heat issues are a common occurance) and there are a million things to do in LA, yet people still show up and the tickets still get sold. Fact of the matter is, Miami always tells people why it won't support the team, but doesn't really do anything except whine about the way things should be, and what they're asking for is impossible, and they're expectations are so out of whack with other major cities it's obscene. Don't forget Miami-Dade leads the 3 counties in attendance. I know this little fact blows your "Miami doesn't support the team" argument into little pieces but I still wanted to bring it up. THE STADIUM IS IN MIAMI FOR THE LOVE OF GOD THEY BETTER SUPPORT THEM THE MOST. To quote Chris Rock: "I'm a good parent, I take care of my kids...WHAT DO YOU WANT...A COOKIE!?!?!" These "great" fans supported them to dead last in attendance. Keep up the good work. :thumbup BUT ITS NOT IN MIAMI BUDDY. f*** its barely in Miami-Dade county the majority of people in Miami live around Coral Gables, South Miami, and Kendall...in other words, nowhere near the stadium. why is this so hard to grasp? And Yankee and Shea stadium are not in Manhattan, and Dodger stadium is barely in LA. WHAT THE f*** DO YOU MIAMI FANS WANT, A PERSONAL HELICOPTER TO THE GAME, A FOOT MASSAGE BY FREDI GONZALEZ AND LORIA TELLING YOU WE REALIZE HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOU TO BE HERE?!?!?? SUCK IT UP! I drive an hour or more 50 times a year to see the Marlins at home, and then take a subway for 30 to 40 minutes to see them 5 or 6 other times a year. Fans deal with it. A new arena in the heart of Miami couldn't get fans out for the Heat, it took Shaq...why is it going to be any different for the Marlins? I know facts tend to get in the way of your arguments against Miami-Dade fans but according to Ira Winderman (who is the the best sports writer in town) 70% of the Heat fans come from Miami-Dade.

TSwift moves into the "guys who are clueless about traffic pattern" bucket.

Judging by what I've seen from downtown stadiums, I hate them. PETCO Park is located in the worst possible place. You cannot park at the stadium. You have to park at Qualcomm / Jack Murphy and park and ride the trolley 20 minutes to get to the game. The only other option is going into the downtown area and spending hours looks for an open Ace parking lot and spending 20 bucks to park for the game. Going on this and the fact of how horrible a sports town San Diego is, I'm very surprised the Padres are still able to sell games out. whats wrong with PETCO? you park your car at a trolley station and take the damn train to the game. The trolley is pretty convenient, so why would you want to drive when theres a trolley? and if the idea is SO awful, then why do they sell out? :blink: Oh please...the stadium is on the countyline... I think it's like 8 blocks from Broward. Kendall, South Miami, those areas further south may be in Miami-Dade but Palm Beachers can get to the Stadium quicker than they cna. Exactly. DS is much more convenient to Broward residents than Dade, and Dade still is the largest draw of the 3 counties. If you put the stadium in Pompano or some other piece of sh*t city in Broward, youll just have a stadium that isnt convenient to anybody Yawn. Is Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park convenient for anyone? Or Shea? What does Miami want, it put right under their nose so they can fall out the door? Good teams in good markets draw fans, regardless of the "convenience." For the life of me, I still can't understand why anyone thinks rain, heat or traffic exist only in Miami. Yankee, Fenway, and Shea are all on transit lines. Not to mention that sports cities dont get much better than New York and Boston, so of course theyll show up...and people would do whatever it takes to make it to a game at Fenway and Yankee also, you really cant underrate the weather factor in Miami. its one of the most (if not the most) uncomfortably hot cities in the US. Phoenix might be worse...but they have a dome and we dont. fact is, Miami is a sh*tty sports town and people wont show up unless a) it becomes popular to do so (2003) or b) its convenient as hell to show up. putting the stadium in Broward would be an awful idea Fine, then Dodger stadium. Traffic is 100000000000000000000000000X worse, there's no public transportation of note, it's out of the city proper, day games are hotter, much hotter (heat issues are a common occurance) and there are a million things to do in LA, yet people still show up and the tickets still get sold. Fact of the matter is, Miami always tells people why it won't support the team, but doesn't really do anything except whine about the way things should be, and what they're asking for is impossible, and they're expectations are so out of whack with other major cities it's obscene. Don't forget Miami-Dade leads the 3 counties in attendance. I know this little fact blows your "Miami doesn't support the team" argument into little pieces but I still wanted to bring it up.

TSwift, DS is much more convenient for Broward fans than Miami-Dade fans. Almost everyone in Broward county lives within 45 minutes of DS while over half of Miami-Dade lives over 45 minutes from the DS. When I go to the stadium from my office I have to drive into Broward and then back to Miami-Dade to get to the stadium. Much closer to the fan base - and the customers with $$$ EXACTLY. You guys are entitled to your opinion but not to your own set of facts. Pompano would be much more convenient to the Palm Beach fans but Palm Beach fans make-up a minimal percentage of the fan base. Pompano would be a little bit more convenient to Broward fans. Broward is close behind Miami-Dade in attendance. Pompano would be a lot less convenient to Miami-Dade. Miami-Dade leads all counties in attendance. Why does Miami-Dade residents have the biggest draw of fans?? Because the current stadium is in Miami-Dade. Oh please...the stadium is on the countyline... I think it's like 8 blocks from Broward. Kendall, South Miami, those areas further south may be in Miami-Dade but Palm Beachers can get to the Stadium quicker than they cna. miami15, it's a waste of time discussing this issue with those who can't grasp the concept of traffic patterns. Between the 3 counties I would guesstimate there's approximately between 1.5 million people who live over an hour from DS with about half of them in Palm Beach and the other half in Miami-Dade.

Holly, I understand people have different reasons for not going and I think driving time is a major reason many fans don't go and I understand that and sympathize with them and don't hold it against them. In my post I was merely correcting the other posters who claim that Pompano would be much closer to the fan base and I laid out the attendance facts to support my statement.

I'm sure Joe is a millionaire several times over and many people in his position have more than one home so I have no idea why anyone would make a big deal out of him building a home in his hometown. In a nutshell in the interview Joe said: -- he did not respond to the leaks because by responding it would be more of a distraction for the kids -- he did not respond to the leaks because problems are not resolved by taking the problems public -- he was disappointed in the leaks of the firing just before the series in Philly as it was a distraction for the kids -- he's not worried about his reputation because his reputation has never been accused until now and people know that he's not what he was painted out to be

I hate the fact that we have to question wheter Miguel and Willis would be back. This organization is the biggest joke in proffesional sports. Organization or the situation they're in? Organization. The team is generating plenty of money to keep both and still a make a nice profit. Remember all the millions in revenue sharing Loria is stuffing into his pocket.

Gonzalez said he would consider Cookie Rojas, a Spanish-language broadcaster for the Marlins, to be on his coaching staff. Rojas said he had not been contacted about a coaching position, but would consider one. . . . The Marlins would like to bring back pitching coach Rick Kranitz. But if Girardi gets a new managing job with another club, there's a chance Kranitz could join him. I remember a couple of years ago Cookie was a candidate but he wasn't interested because he said the Marlins didn't pay enough. I read somewhere that our coaches are the lowest paid in MLB so unless something changes I doubt Cookie wil be coaching for the Marlins.

Much closer to the fan base - and the customers with $$$ EXACTLY. You guys are entitled to your opinion but not to your own set of facts. Pompano would be much more convenient to the Palm Beach fans but Palm Beach fans make-up a minimal percentage of the fan base. Pompano would be a little bit more convenient to Broward fans. Broward is close behind Miami-Dade in attendance. Pompano would be a lot less convenient to Miami-Dade. Miami-Dade leads all counties in attendance.

I don't think that's a good location for the team or the fans. Most of Miami-Dade would be over an hour away from there and I don't think many fans will routinely drive over an hour to go to a baseball game. I guess if downtown and the turnpike locations fall through this is better than nothing. This is the first time I can read through an entire Grimm column. That guy is the worst columnist.

If any pitcher is going to come down hard it is Anibal Sanchez. The guy put up just sick numbers as a starter this season. Projected out over the course of a full season, he would be a shoe-in for the Cy Young Award in 2007 as he would have a 20-6 record and a 2.37 ERA if he were to "just" repeat what he did this season as a starter. I'm not saying Anibal will come down hard, he is just the most likely to show some regression in the number of runs he gives up per start and his win-loss ratio. As for Helms returning, I think the likelihood of that happening is slim. He has indicated he plans on fielding all offers this offseason and if he gets a good offer from a team that plans on starting him he will probably not be wearing a Marlins uniform next season. Anibal is going to come down too, but he has much better control than JJ and his performance is much more indicative of his whip, baa, hr/9, etc than Johnson. You especially know I view Johnson as a clear "third best" in the rotation rookie battle as well. I think Olsen stays relatively the same, JJ and Anibal come down about 1-1.25 era points each, and Nolasco pitches a little better. W/L ratio? Who cares. That's run dependent. Anibal can't control the fact he would give up 4 in 5 innings, and then win cause the Marlins scored 7. I think Wes Helms looks really good at 3B for the Twins, so yea it's a longshot. But maybe he really likes it here. Your predictions on the rookies seem reasonable and if they materialize and assuming DTrain lowers his ERA to his career average we would probably end up with the lowest starters' ERA in the NL. Before doing the calculation I thought I wasn't going to like the result so I was pleasantly surprised.

Thanks for the info, MarlinsFans46. I don't have much of an opinion on Fredi given that I don't know anything about his game management style. He has worked under Bobby Cox and I hope he'll manage the clubhouse the way Cox does. Regarding game management: -- is Fredi another early-inning-play-for-one-run-bunting-freak like Torborg and McKeon and to a lesser extent Girardi or does Fredi play for big innings? -- is Fredi the kind of manager that will run, run and run even with players who aren't good base stealers or does he pick his spots to run with good base stealers? -- is Fredi a "gut feeling" kinda guy like McKeon or does he depend on historical data to make his decisions? Anyone know? . . 1. Is there any manager in the NL that you know of that isn't an early inning bunt type? They all make this mistake. 2. Is there any manager you know of that runs runs runs with players that are not good base stealers 3. I'd have to go with gut feeling, because if any manager went with historical data then none of them would bunt in the early innings, yet they all do. 1. I tend to agree however some managers do it more than others and I would prefer a manager that does it as little as possible. Some AL managers rarely bunt in the early innings. 2. Almezaga ran a lot and is not a good base stealer. 3. I guess I agree but some managers have more gut feelings than others.

I wouldn't lead-off with Hammer. If Jeremy lives up to expectations maybe have Jeremy lead-off and then Hanley, Miguel and Hammer