Out of the Past

how would anyone know? I would think the people enamored with him would know.

I don't have much of an opinion on Fredi given that I don't know anything about his game management style. He has worked under Bobby Cox and I hope he'll manage the clubhouse the way Cox does. Regarding game management: -- is Fredi another early-inning-play-for-one-run-bunting-freak like Torborg and McKeon and to a lesser extent Girardi or does Fredi play for big innings? -- is Fredi the kind of manager that will run, run and run even with players who aren't good base stealers or does he pick his spots to run with good base stealers? -- is Fredi a "gut feeling" kinda guy like McKeon or does he depend on historical data to make his decisions? Anyone know?

Hank Goldberg doesnt give 2 sh*ts about professional baseball in South Florida so take his statements for what they are worth. Hank obviously is more of a football and basketball fan than baseball but out of the local media he's the only one with any original thoughts and insight into the stadium situation and just because he hates Loria and Samson doesn't mean he hates baseball.

If Girardi behaved the way the FO claims he behaved they would have fired him long ago and they probably wouldn't owe him any money.

I found this on the Marlins website in the article "Gonzalez tabbed to replace Girardi" As for Gonzalez's staff, he plans on having discussions with three of the coaches with Marlins this past season. Hitting coach Jim Presley, pitching coach Rick Kranitz and infield coach Perry Hill will be considered to return. Not expected back are bench coach Gary Tuck, third base coach Bobby Meacham and bullpen coach Mike Harkey. The team also is considering some coaches from within the organization being promoted to the big-league level. A possible bench coach candidate is Pat Corrales, who is not returning as the Braves bench coach. http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...sp&c_id=fla I would be surprised to see Presley or Kranitz return. The Beinfest / Girardi rift started over the coaches and now Beinfest will keep the coaches he resisted hiring? I don't see it happening.

We've heard so many rumors for so long, that I think it's prudent we all hold our excitement at bay. I'll believe it when I see it -- that's been my motto about anything stadium related for a while now. That's true but MLB dealing directly with our local officials and the possibility of getting Loria out of the way are steps in the right direction. This is great news especially after the depressing article posted by Quad a couple of days ago.

This already is a big story on the Spanish language TV stations. They cover the Marlins like the "gringo" media does the Dolphins. Also, the Cuban community cares A LOT about this team. They don't go to the stadium for the same exact reason some of you "gringos" don't go. Again, just because they don't speak Spanish at the games doesn't mean they're latin. A lot of us speak English. :thumbup You're forgetting these "geniuses" can identify Hispanics of European and African decent from non-Hispanics of European and African decent just by looking at them. These "geniuses" are quite talented in that respect.

The amount of people who think they can tell Hispanics or Cubans from non-Hispanics or non-Cubans just by looking at them truly amazes me. I know close minded people like you don't like dealing with facts but just in case you're willing to make an exception in this case you may want to go look at an article posted in one of the stadium threads in which the Marlins say 35% of the fans are Hispanic.

Was that Boog or was it David Samson (in Boog's voice) in the opening of Boog's show going off about all the money Loria has lost and is losing and about how Loria has always spent money when money needed to be spent? Boog, or David, whichever one it was, must have slept through July and August when we did nothing to improve the bullpen and the OF.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/15652595.htm Though Jeffrey Loria hasn't set a 2007 payroll, president David Samson said it's a ''safe assumption'' it will be in the range of this season's $18.7 million. We can now look forward to no CF, no bullpen, no bench and no DTrain or Miguel or both. The good news, for the Loria fans, is that next year he'll once again kick every other owner's ass in making money.

It was no secret the Marlins and MLB weren't very "excited" about the lease the city of Miami put on the table. Reportedly it limited revenue from parking, concessions, and skyboxes, but it was a lot better than the lease at Dolphin Stadium and it secured the long term feasibility of the franchise in the South Florida and eventually the Latin American market. Were the concerns over these revenues (parking, concessions and skyboxes) related to the amount of revenues generated by the new stadium or were the concerns over the split of the revenues between the team, city and county? Another sticking point in the deal was who was going to control construction. Under the MOU the team was responsible for any penny the budget, failure to do so would result in the city foreclosing on the franchise. If the city of Miami had controlled the project they could have easily given the project to friendly enities and in a few years we would have had another Performing Arts Center/Metro Rail/Terminal at MIA situation on our hands. At Loria's and eventually the fanbase's expense. Under the OB deal the Marlins would have paid $30 million upfront and $5.4 million a year for 30 years ($162 million total) rent payments. For every million the project went over budget the team would pay $33,333.33 extra per year. An example: The stadium goes $50 million over budget, which was reasonably possible, rent would then increase to $7.06 million a year. Add $30 million to the team contribution and you have the ingredients for a financial disaster and we're at square one.....again. We disagree here. The control of the construction was not really an issue because all along the negotiation process Loria guaranteed the cost overruns as long as he controlled the construction and the city and county gave him the control. The hang-up on this issue, as I recall, was Loria's unwillingness to provide a Letter of Credit guaranteeing the cost overruns. After more than a year of zero movement on this issue I believe the issue was finally resolved when Loria used the team as collateral to guarantee the overruns. Given that the cost estimates were Loria's own estimate and given that Loria would control the construction I don't see why he would be so concerned over cost overruns unless his own estimate was a bogus one (as in the case of San Antonio stadium).

maybe Scott should hate pitching badly.....Shut your mouth and win....then you can talk trash. I agree with you. Last week he was applauded for hitting a .200 hitter after allowing 3 homers and 7 runs and this week he's applauded for talking trash and not backing it up. I see no merit in what he did last week or what he did this week.

Yeah a half assed conspiracy theory that makes no sense where it counts most......Loria's pocketbook. Why has Loria and the team been campaigning for a stadium since the post 2003 championship season? Under your conspiracy theory the campaigning should have started this offseason. The faster a deal is put in place the more money Loria saves and the more money he makes. Exactly. I've been saying this all along. The sooner a stadium is constructed, the sooner ownership is selling naming rights, advertising on everything from cupholders to the jumbotron, getting 70% of the net on concessions, keeping 100% of the clubseat and skybox revenue, etc. $15 million dollars in the grand scheme of things is simply chump change. MAYBE-but, since Loria has no intention (IMO) of paying for any construction increases, and nothing in his MO should make anyone think differently, even the most ardent Loria supporters, I do not necessarily agree it costs him to wait, regardless of naming rights etc. Besides, he always thinks short term and the short term benefits him to wait. Dollars in his pocket now seem to be worth more to him than worrying about the long term issues. Loria will make much more money in the short term if a stadium is built ASAP, because as soon as any stadium deal is completed the value of the franchise nearly doubles to $500 million, easily. $500 million, stadium revenue (which we have little of now) and secure long term plan > $15 million, no stadium revenue, insecure future, plus increasing construction costs Quadruple Play, as you may remember back in the spring of '05 the funding gap of the proposed $420 million OB stadium was $30 million when the legislature said no to the tax rebate. Why do you think Loria didn't cover the $30 million gap if the additional $30 million investment would immediate double the value of the franchise? Note that I'm not arguing your assertion that the value of the franchise will double with a new stadium. I agree with you on that one.

On numbers, Hanley runs away with this. I know people gravitate towards Uggla because he was such a surprise. But Hanley's been straight up ridiculous, especially since the All-Star Break. I just don't really see an arguement for Uggla here. I mean, Hanley even has a better slugging percentage. Edit: I suppose the arguement for Uggla would be defense. That would be a reasonable arguement. I suppose the argument could be made but I don't think it would be much of an argument. Looking at the season as a whole I think both of them are below average defensively. Uggla's defense was poor early on and then he had a long stretch where he was fine but lately he has slumped with the bat and the glove. Uggla has clearly been less of a liability on defense. There is no argument over that. With that said, Hanley's offensive numbers are ridiculous for a kid his age. Both are below average. Hanley's defense may be a D and Uggla's may be a C-. Uggla is a little better but not much better and still below average. To make a case for a guy for ROY based on his defense when his defense is below average is a rather weak case, in my opinion. Defensive stats are VERY limited but that's what we have. Fielding %: Hanley is 4th from the bottom among SS Uggla is 6th from the bottom among 2B Zone Rating: Hanley is at the bottom among SS Uggla is 6th from the bottom among 2B

On numbers, Hanley runs away with this. I know people gravitate towards Uggla because he was such a surprise. But Hanley's been straight up ridiculous, especially since the All-Star Break. I just don't really see an arguement for Uggla here. I mean, Hanley even has a better slugging percentage. Edit: I suppose the arguement for Uggla would be defense. That would be a reasonable arguement. I suppose the argument could be made but I don't think it would be much of an argument. Looking at the season as a whole I think both of them are below average defensively. Uggla's defense was poor early on and then he had a long stretch where he was fine but lately he has slumped with the bat and the glove.

I'm glad there is someone in the Clubhouse that hates the Phillies as much as I do. Scotty O is quickly becoming my favorite pitcher on the staff with this attitude. Again Joe Girardi has no clue about what he's talking about. There has been special hatred between us and Philadelphia since that 5 game sweep in Philly 5 years ago, probably even before that. 2001- Five game sweep in Philly, Phillies own us 2002- Phillies own us 2003- Marlins own Philly, eliminating them with 3 game sweep the last week of season (Conine does most of the work) 2004- Marlins continue to own Philly, brawl in Philly, Mike Lowell 3 homer game 2005- Marlins own Philly for the first part of the year, tide turns toward Philly, 9-17-2005, Nuff Ced 2006- Philly owns Marlins with five 10 run or more games You're going to tell me guys like Burrell, Rollins, and Lieberthal don't hold a grudge against us after the 2003 season? Utley and Howard have turned the tide of the rivalry to their favor and unless we figure them out the Phillies will continue killing us. In 45 games against the Marlins Utley has a 1.114 OPS with 42 RBI and 38 runs. In 29 games against the Marlins Howard has a 1.424 OPS with 29 RBI and 23 runs. Their production against us is out of control.

After tonight's game: Sanchez .345 Cabrera .340 Too bad that shot that Cabs hit tonight to right field was caught by the Phillies. It's going to be tough, but it's definitely possible. Before Wed.'s game, Cabs was 11 points behind Sanchez. He gained 7 points on him in 2 nights. An 0-4 night will cost you 3 points, so here's hoping for a 3-hit game for Miguel tomorrow, and an 0-fer for Freddy. :mischief And Sanchez better not sit out either of the next 2 games to "preserve" his lead. :mad ETA: If numbers mean anything, Cabs is 9 for 18 against tomorrow's starter, Randy Wolf. The Pirates are making such a big deal out of the batting race that I would be surprised if he sat a game out. I mean they hand out all the Freddy signs and then he sits out the game? It could happen but I doubt it.

Why is he starting? Because at the beginning of the year, Joe G, resident baseball genius, insisted that Brian Moehler should be in the starting rotation. So damnitt, hes going to end the year in the rotation as well. Loria promised Moehler a spot in the rotation when they were trying to sign him.

Moehler will end his illustrious Marlins career with a 5.43 ERA and a .330 BAA. No, the .330 BAA is not a typo.

okay... what are sanchez's power number's like? The purpose of my post was to show what Miguel needs to do to win the battling title. I guess you missed it. Freddy is 2-2 today so it's looking tough.

I was taking a look at the batting race and assuming that both play in their remaining games I think if Miguel outhits him by 3 hits he's likely to win the batting title. Assuming Freddy and Miguel both play in their 3 remaining games: -- If Miguel outhits him by 3 hits Miguel will likely win it -- If Miguel outhits him by 2 hits it could go either way -- If Miguel outhits him by 1 hit Freddy will likely to win it

Before the season I predicted low to mid 60s in wins. To me the biggest positive surprises are Hanley, JJ and Uggla and the biggest disappointments are Hermida and Vargas. By late June I thought the team had a good shot at the WC and I still think they could have won it had the FO done something to fill the bullpen and OF holes.

That's why talent is key. Not coaching. Both are key. Of course talent is the primary need but you also need good coaching to get the most out of the talent.

I like Kranitz also, but he is probably gone with Girardi. One counter to the feel good article, as much credit as is being given him for the young starters success, he is still the same pitching coach to the horrible bullpen. I like him a lot and give him credit for helping the young pitchers but the crap out of the bullpen should not be a knock against him. A good pitching coach can help talented pitchers pitch well but a good pitching coach can't help mediocre or bad pitchers pitch well. The old saying "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t" says it best.

if howard played in miami day in day out, in our lineup...knock off about 30 homers to his total...and yeah...im not kidding...id give it to pujols, beltran, and cabs in that order before howard How do you figure that?