Which location do you think will be the best for the Marlins... NOT you? Forget about where you live and how many games you will attend. Think about the Traffic at 6pm, the population of the surrounding cities etc:. Feel free to discuss.

 

What are your Pros and Cons of each site?

Downtown Miami is 1st for me b/c of Metrorail. I'm 10 minutes south of the Dadeland South Station. It's only a 10 minute ride into Downtown on the rail. It would be very convenient. Hialeah would be a bit of a drive but Pompano would be a nightmare when you consider all the northbound traffic.

I have to go with Pompano. It's located directly between I-95 and the turnpike, it's smack dab in the middle of the Marlins population, and it's closest to the big money. Not to mention there would be no shortage of land and probably no shortage of parking, either.

I voted other place in florida , I honestly think the Marlins would draw better in jacksonville or even orlando, in south florida the best place would be in downtown miami . I sometimes wonder if given all the history baseball in miami will work , the various marlins ownership groups have burned so many bridges

Downtown Miami is the logical economic choice. Could somebody please explain to me how being in a harness track in an industrial area of subpar city like Pompano Beach mean the team is closer to the "money?"

 

To MLB, "money" is not the median income of the household, "money" is the amount of corporate capital they can extract from the large local corporations in the form of club seats and luxury suite leases. Pompano is NOT the "economic engine" of South Florida. I've said it before and I'll say it again, MLB and the business side of the Marlins is not targeting you in your nice house in Boca Raton! They are targeting Ryder, Banco Espiritu Santo, Citibank, Merrill Lynch, Greenberg Traurig, Holland & Knight, Shutts & Bowen, Akerman Senterfitt, Carnival Cruise Lines, Fortune International, Lennar, Centex, NCL, Royal Caribbean, Burger King Corporate, Hilton Latin America, MTV Latino, Sony International, American Airlines, and BankUnited, and most Latin American subsidiaries of national and multinational corporations to name a few. Where are those sources of revenue located? In a small area comprising of Downtown Miami, Port of Miami, Blue Lagoon, Coral Gables, Airport West and Doral. That's who is going to generate revenue for the team, not Biff and Tad in Boca Raton. For every two ticket season ticket package in the Lower Level that Buffy and Tad, or Mort and Ellen from Boca buy, the Marlins would expect and probably received tens of thousands of dollars for a suite from one of the above companies, along with another 10 to 20 club seats. It's simple arithmetic folks! The individual doesn't matter in today's corporate sports world. The individual died in the 1980s along with astroturf and the reserve clause!

 

I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you. And don't give me that "crap" about "Well Palm Beach and Broward have high powered law firms!" No they don't. I know, I'm in the legal community of Palm Beach. The "big" firms that are in Broward and Palm Beach are merely the satellite offices of the main offices in Miami!

 

Stop thinking in terms of the individual and think in terms of the corporations. That's where Miami has both Broward and Palm Beach beat. Without Miami, Broward and Palm Beach would just be larger versions of Martin and St. Lucie counties!

Sure the stadium is crap, but I couldn't think of a better location than where it is now. Why? Because I'm there within 10 mins. of leaving my house. Yes sir...

Downtown...

 

Didn't even think about all the northbound traffic there already is towards Pompano.

 

Downtown would be good even if you don't live near the Metro. Parking at and riding from a metro stop is better than getting stuck in gridlock at the stadium, and then end up alleviating some of that traffic for those who park at the stadium. Then there's the availablity to business crowd. And the Northerners coming down will be going against the traffic. Ideal place if it's doable

All other things equal, downtown Miami.

 

However, all other things are not equal. The financing seems to have the most "fast track success" at Pompano, as well as standing as a reasonable drawing base for the three counties as well as not facing the congestion/parking issues that the downtown site invariably will.

 

If all three were slam dunks sitting on the doorstep, Miami wins in a runaway, but Pompano is the right combination of feasable and reasonable.

Downtown Miami is the logical economic choice. Could somebody please explain to me how being in a harness track in an industrial area of subpar city like Pompano Beach mean the team is closer to the "money?"

 

To MLB, "money" is not the median income of the household, "money" is the amount of corporate capital they can extract from the large local corporations in the form of club seats and luxury suite leases. Pompano is NOT the "economic engine" of South Florida. I've said it before and I'll say it again, MLB and the business side of the Marlins is not targeting you in your nice house in Boca Raton! They are targeting Ryder, Banco Espiritu Santo, Citibank, Merrill Lynch, Greenberg Traurig, Holland & Knight, Shutts & Bowen, Akerman Senterfitt, Carnival Cruise Lines, Fortune International, Lennar, Centex, NCL, Royal Caribbean, Burger King Corporate, Hilton Latin America, MTV Latino, Sony International, American Airlines, and BankUnited, and most Latin American subsidiaries of national and multinational corporations to name a few. Where are those sources of revenue located? In a small area comprising of Downtown Miami, Port of Miami, Blue Lagoon, Coral Gables, Airport West and Doral. That's who is going to generate revenue for the team, not Biff and Tad in Boca Raton. For every two ticket season ticket package in the Lower Level that Buffy and Tad, or Mort and Ellen from Boca buy, the Marlins would expect and probably received tens of thousands of dollars for a suite from one of the above companies, along with another 10 to 20 club seats. It's simple arithmetic folks! The individual doesn't matter in today's corporate sports world. The individual died in the 1980s along with astroturf and the reserve clause!

 

I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you. And don't give me that "crap" about "Well Palm Beach and Broward have high powered law firms!" No they don't. I know, I'm in the legal community of Palm Beach. The "big" firms that are in Broward and Palm Beach are merely the satellite offices of the main offices in Miami!

 

Stop thinking in terms of the individual and think in terms of the corporations. That's where Miami has both Broward and Palm Beach beat. Without Miami, Broward and Palm Beach would just be larger versions of Martin and St. Lucie counties!

 

 

A post so nice you should read it twice.

 

All other things equal, downtown Miami.

 

However, all other things are not equal. The financing seems to have the most "fast track success" at Pompano, as well as standing as a reasonable drawing base for the three counties as well as not facing the congestion/parking issues that the downtown site invariably will.

 

If all three were slam dunks sitting on the doorstep, Miami wins in a runaway, but Pompano is the right combination of feasable and reasonable.

 

 

Have you ever driven northbound in rush hour traffic on 95 and the Turnpike?

 

This site is nowhere near the "middle" when you factor in traffic patterns.

For every two ticket season ticket package in the Lower Level that Buffy and Tad, or Mort and Ellen from Boca buy, the Marlins would expect and probably received tens of thousands of dollars for a suite from one of the above companies, along with another 10 to 20 club seats.

Also, don't forget that a lot of the Tads and Morts that live in the 'burbs already work downtown or do business with other downtown companies and will be more than happy to buy season tickets or ticket packages themselves.

Downtown.

 

-- higher corporate revenues

-- more public transportation

-- more centrally located for the fan base

-- will provide more of an economic boost to the local economy

-- higher walk-up sales than the other locations

 

One of the latest bogus arguments against downtown is that the Heat doesn't draw well in downtown. Since the AAA was built 7 years ago the Heat's average attendance is a little higher (about 1%) than the NBA's average attendance. Would MLB be happy if over the first 7 years in a new stadium the Marlins average attendance was 1% higher than the rest of MLB over those 7 years? Absolutely.

downtown for sure. However I would accept pompano if that was the only choice.

I voted for downtown Miami as the best site, but Hialeah is the more practical site. I'm ignoring for this vote the size and limitations of the proposed downtown site and simply voting on the locale.

I don't know about this whole "it's gotta be downtown" mentality. Just for some background, I actually live in downtown Miami. And, I am also a member of the "legal community" who works in downtown miami for/with these entities that would fork over the serious cash for leasing a corporate box. So, I wouldn't mind a ballpark in downtown Miami at all.

 

However, IMO the only reason to have a downtown stadium is for the walk-up crowd (if such a thing exists). With 81 home games a year, it's tough to fill a stadium on the weekdays without a walk-up crowd. And, having lived in places where such a downtown stadium exists, I can tell you that the after-work crowd comprises the majority of the seats during the weekdays.

 

However, not many people actually work/live in downtown Miami. Miami is not like other major cities, such as Houston, etc., that have a population that works exclusively in one area (downtown) and lives exclusively in another (the burbs). Pretty much nobody with disposable income lives in downtown Miami (despite the condo boom, many are empty and none are actually near the location proposed by the Miami arena), and very few people (other than lawyers and accountants) work in downtown Miami. Many of the entities listed by SoFlaFish don't even have their main offices in downtown Miami. It is simply a myth that enough people live/work in downtown Miami to constitute a significant walk-up crowd, particularly if you build the stadium by the Miami Arena site. If anything, a stadium would need to be built around Brickell Avenue, and there is simply no room. The best site is where the AAA sits, and John Henry already tried (and failed) to get a stadium built in the park adjacent to it. The entities that have their corporate headquarters in Miami would shell out the dough for these luxury boxes no matter where the stadium is located. I've personally sat in many of the boxes leased by these "Miami" corporations and entities at both Dolphin Stadium and the BankAtlantic Center, neither of which are even located in Dade County. A brand new Pompano stadium will still have Lennar, Burger King, Office Depot (corp. headquarters in Delray), etc. dishing out the cash.

 

I HATE the idea of a stadium in Hialeah, but if it goes there at least there is the POTENTIAL of walk-up crowds (since many live in the area). The problem there is that you alientate the WPB crowd and probably don't have a large walk-up crowd anyway, considering that Hialeah is not an area recognized as being comprised of residents with high disposable incomes.

 

So, since you HAVE to put the stadium in a central location for commuting, it makes the most sense to have the stadium in Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano, etc. That way, you can attract commuters from all over South Florida. The Pompano location is central, and is close enough to Ft. Lauderdale to draw off of a heavily populated area with the suburbs only a short drive away.

 

I vote Pompano (although for personal reasons I'd love them to build it in downtown Miami).

Downtown Miami is the logical economic choice. Could somebody please explain to me how being in a harness track in an industrial area of subpar city like Pompano Beach mean the team is closer to the "money?"

 

To MLB, "money" is not the median income of the household, "money" is the amount of corporate capital they can extract from the large local corporations in the form of club seats and luxury suite leases. Pompano is NOT the "economic engine" of South Florida. I've said it before and I'll say it again, MLB and the business side of the Marlins is not targeting you in your nice house in Boca Raton! They are targeting Ryder, Banco Espiritu Santo, Citibank, Merrill Lynch, Greenberg Traurig, Holland & Knight, Shutts & Bowen, Akerman Senterfitt, Carnival Cruise Lines, Fortune International, Lennar, Centex, NCL, Royal Caribbean, Burger King Corporate, Hilton Latin America, MTV Latino, Sony International, American Airlines, and BankUnited, and most Latin American subsidiaries of national and multinational corporations to name a few. Where are those sources of revenue located? In a small area comprising of Downtown Miami, Port of Miami, Blue Lagoon, Coral Gables, Airport West and Doral. That's who is going to generate revenue for the team, not Biff and Tad in Boca Raton. For every two ticket season ticket package in the Lower Level that Buffy and Tad, or Mort and Ellen from Boca buy, the Marlins would expect and probably received tens of thousands of dollars for a suite from one of the above companies, along with another 10 to 20 club seats. It's simple arithmetic folks! The individual doesn't matter in today's corporate sports world. The individual died in the 1980s along with astroturf and the reserve clause!

 

I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you. And don't give me that "crap" about "Well Palm Beach and Broward have high powered law firms!" No they don't. I know, I'm in the legal community of Palm Beach. The "big" firms that are in Broward and Palm Beach are merely the satellite offices of the main offices in Miami!

 

Stop thinking in terms of the individual and think in terms of the corporations. That's where Miami has both Broward and Palm Beach beat. Without Miami, Broward and Palm Beach would just be larger versions of Martin and St. Lucie counties!

 

 

That's ridiculous. Corporate sponsors will pay no matter where the stadium is, and that's a fact.

I think the Downtown site is the best location for the team because of the Metrorail and peoplemover

I don't know about this whole "it's gotta be downtown" mentality. Just for some background, I actually live in downtown Miami. And, I am also a member of the "legal community" who works in downtown miami for/with these entities that would fork over the serious cash for leasing a corporate box. So, I wouldn't mind a ballpark in downtown Miami at all.

 

However, IMO the only reason to have a downtown stadium is for the walk-up crowd (if such a thing exists). With 81 home games a year, it's tough to fill a stadium on the weekdays without a walk-up crowd. And, having lived in places where such a downtown stadium exists, I can tell you that the after-work crowd comprises the majority of the seats during the weekdays.

 

However, not many people actually work/live in downtown Miami. Miami is not like other major cities, such as Houston, etc., that have a population that works exclusively in one area (downtown) and lives exclusively in another (the burbs). Pretty much nobody with disposable income lives in downtown Miami (despite the condo boom, many are empty and none are actually near the location proposed by the Miami arena), and very few people (other than lawyers and accountants) work in downtown Miami. Many of the entities listed by SoFlaFish don't even have their main offices in downtown Miami. It is simply a myth that enough people live/work in downtown Miami to constitute a significant walk-up crowd, particularly if you build the stadium by the Miami Arena site. If anything, a stadium would need to be built around Brickell Avenue, and there is simply no room. The best site is where the AAA sits, and John Henry already tried (and failed) to get a stadium built in the park adjacent to it. The entities that have their corporate headquarters in Miami would shell out the dough for these luxury boxes no matter where the stadium is located. I've personally sat in many of the boxes leased by these "Miami" corporations and entities at both Dolphin Stadium and the BankAtlantic Center, neither of which are even located in Dade County. A brand new Pompano stadium will still have Lennar, Burger King, Office Depot (corp. headquarters in Delray), etc. dishing out the cash.

 

I HATE the idea of a stadium in Hialeah, but if it goes there at least there is the POTENTIAL of walk-up crowds (since many live in the area). The problem there is that you alientate the WPB crowd and probably don't have a large walk-up crowd anyway, considering that Hialeah is not an area recognized as being comprised of residents with high disposable incomes.

 

So, since you HAVE to put the stadium in a central location for commuting, it makes the most sense to have the stadium in Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano, etc. That way, you can attract commuters from all over South Florida. The Pompano location is central, and is close enough to Ft. Lauderdale to draw off of a heavily populated area with the suburbs only a short drive away.

 

I vote Pompano (although for personal reasons I'd love them to build it in downtown Miami).

 

I wish there was a map with the Hialeah city limits and the stadium location. I think the stadium would be a few miles away from the rest of Hialeah. I'm not 100% sure about that.

I wish there was a map with the Hialeah city limits and the stadium location. I think the stadium would be a few miles away from the rest of Hialeah. I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

 

 

 

Good enough for you?

 

But while we're "mapping" things out, I decided to do a rudimentary study. Below is a satellite map of South Florida. The "white" lines are the "County Lines", the red dots signify either the stadium locations or major "population centers". The "teal/cyan" line equals TWENTY (20) MILES. You will see that within 20 mi. as the crow flies from Dolphins Stadium to the north you cover all of Broward up to approximately Pompano Beach, Tamarac, Lauderhill, and maybe the southern reaches of Coral Springs and Coconut Creek. Left out of that 20 mi. "area" in Broward is perhaps Deerfield Beach, Parkland, and most of Coral Springs and Coconut Creek. If you do the inverse, you'll see that within 20 mi. as the crow flies from Dolphins Stadium to the south, you cover all Miami-Dade County up to approximately Coral Gables, South Miami, West Miami, and the northern reaches of Eastern Kendall. Left out of that 20 mi. area in Miami-Dade is West Kendall, Perrine, Pinecrest, and the rest of South Dade (where most new construction in Dade County is going up).

 

Now examine the second "teal/cyan" line which stretches north and south from the Pompano site. For starters, if you go south you see that you have basically eliminated all of Miami-Dade County from within the rudimentary 20 mi. "radius". And if you go north, you'll see that you really don't capture much of Palm Beach County as you pretty much reach as far north as probably Boynton Beach. So, you're willing to sacrifice a market of 2.5 million people in Miami-Dade County who would fall outside of a 20 mi. scope, to capture perhaps, at most, approximately 750,000 potential consumers (that would be maybe half of the 1.5 million population of Palm Beach County -- factoring that most of the growth in Palm Beach County is actually north and west of West Palm Beach in Wellington, Royal Palm Beach, West Palm Beach, Palm Beach Gardens, and Jupiter). Makes no sense in this rudimentary visual study.

 

A Downtown Miami site would knock out probably Broward north of Ft. Lauderdale from the 20 mi. "radius", but you'd then pretty much capture all of South Dade where you may be trading off "numbers" from the current site. A rough estimation might show that the Downtown/Miami Arena site is about 10 to 15 miles south of Dolphins Stadium, so take out 10 to 15 miles from the north side, and that's how I come to my calculations.

 

 

 

So what does that teach us, kids. That saying that the stadium is in Miami and "out of reach" to most Broward residents is a fallacy. The current location hits as much of the densely populated sections of Broward as it does Miami-Dade County. So, you can't argue, "The stadium is in Miami and 'they' [Miami people] don't go. Take away the county lines and that stadium is in as much of Broward's area as it is in Miami-Dade's area.

 

It's much more different if you actually visualize it on a map.

I wish there was a map with the Hialeah city limits and the stadium location. I think the stadium would be a few miles away from the rest of Hialeah. I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

 

 

 

Good enough for you?

Perfect. Thank you. That's exactly what I was looking for. That location is technically in Hialeah but it's not really Hialeah. It's in the middle of nowhere.

 

That other map illustrates the location problem. So Fla is a rectangle about 100 miles long and about 12 miles wide and wherever you put a stadium a lot of people will be over an hour away.

Downtown Miami is 1st for me b/c of Metrorail. I'm 10 minutes south of the Dadeland South Station. It's only a 10 minute ride into Downtown on the rail. It would be very convenient. Hialeah would be a bit of a drive but Pompano would be a nightmare when you consider all the northbound traffic.

 

I agree with you 100% but I also believe the Hialeah proposal gives the Marlins the best opportunity for the best possible state of the arts facility. Downtown would limit what the stadium would look like...if you guys have been paying attention it might be a very strong possibility it would have no roof or at best a permanant Dome Stadium. Not one person here would like that if that were the case. Hialeah would allow for the development of an entire infra-structue making a weekend baseball series a family experience for us out of towners with a staduim we may never imagine in our wildest basebal dreams. Remember... "IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL COME"

...By the way the location of the land proposed by MLB is not that great any way...It's closer to Overtown than it is to Bayside. No waterview whatsoever

...By the way the location of the land proposed by MLB is not that great any way...It's closer to Overtown than it is to Bayside. No waterview whatsoever

 

 

Come on, it's a few blocks away. And whatever view you get at the Miami Arena site is a huge improvement over the Hialeah site's view of a landfill on one side and that conglomerate of culture called Hialeah on the other side.