Lost in yesterday's offensive outbreak, Armando Benitez pitched a scoreless inning of relif facing the minimum 3 batters and striking out 2. I really hope he can return to old form this year and be in the top 3 in saves in the league.

 

Just remember people, blown saves are going to happen, lets just hope it only happens a handful of times, if at all! But if they are going to happen I hope they happen in situations where we can still come back and win the game.

I think he will come back to his old form.

 

He just needs a couple of more relief appearances and he will be ready to go. Armando is a streaky pitcher, sometimes he comes good or sometimes he comes bad.

 

We need him to be consistant because we loss two good relief pitchers (Uggy, and Helling).

As long as we don't start the season the way we did in 2002, with the bullpen imploding, I'll be a happy camper.

We'll see. I too just want to see some consistency from the bullpen unlike last season. I think Benitez could get back to closing out games but I am not sure if he can step it up and do it under pressure situations yet. Time will tell.

MANDO WILL SHOCK MANY JUT WAIT AND SEE :thumbup :thumbup

He better :fyou

HE WILL GO MANDO

Don't hold your breath

I just hope that he can remain consistent, because it dosent look like we will be able to go aftre Urbina since Clevland is trying to get him.

It will come down to a matter of consistency with Mando...some nights he will blaze through innings and others he will get roughed up.

When I look at our pen, I'm more concerned about getting to Mando than Mando himself. Fox'll be solid, but other than that...? :blink: It's a scary thought when Benitez is the one in the pen on the most sturdy ground...

When I look at our pen, I'm more concerned about getting to Mando than Mando himself. Fox'll be solid, but other than that...? :blink: It's a scary thought when Benitez is the one in the pen on the most sturdy ground...

Agreed. But this team will find a way and the FO is a good bet to get quality in there. Kind of like College sports, it takes a few years to get your guys in there with your playbook. I think the Marlins are now starting to resemble the team that this FO wants in place. In other words, this is Jack's team and these are his players. Lets see what he can do now. Beinfest has done an excellent job since he has been here putting together a well-balanced team with great chemistry. I think that is much the same here this year.

The other thing is you can't expect Fox and Benitez to finish up 162 games. IMO, we need at least two more MLB quality guys in the pen or this season is going to be an exercise in futility. Having a guy like Helling late last season was a godsend (btw, he's out with a broken leg) and the FO is going to have to pull off a megatrade, and soon, to fill the obvious holes we have.

 

Who they trade remains up in the air but I can't believe at least one reg or even one of our starting five pitchers won't get moved in the next week to shore up the pen. With the play, and bat of Wilson Valdez looming at AAA trading Alex Gonzalez and cash for pitching seems to me to be the obvious answer, but that's just one man's opinion.

Guys, he was in his old form last year, look at his eRA. But I warn you, he's a notorious choker and you will know all too well too soon...unless your team is never in contention of course.

yea the pen is the only thing that am worried about am past the choi thing i think he's going to be ok...i would feel alot better going into the season with a more solid pen remember at first the starters only about six innings so were going to be useing the pen alot and this year i really hope these guys get of to a fast start....

The other thing is you can't expect Fox and Benitez to finish up 162 games. IMO, we need at least two more MLB quality guys in the pen or this season is going to be an exercise in futility. Having a guy like Helling late last season was a godsend (btw, he's out with a broken leg) and the FO is going to have to pull off a megatrade, and soon, to fill the obvious holes we have.

 

Who they trade remains up in the air but I can't believe at least one reg or even one of our starting five pitchers won't get moved in the next week to shore up the pen. With the play, and bat of Wilson Valdez looming at AAA trading Alex Gonzalez and cash for pitching seems to me to be the obvious answer, but that's just one man's opinion.

uh? ... are we looking to trade someone? ... first off i dont think we should trade AGon and dirupt the combo up the middle, that would be stupid.

 

secondly, dont worry about Mando he'll be ok 37 saves ... mark my words

 

 

 

i do think we need help in the pen ... how about a Tommy Phelps, Brian Banks and PTBNL for some scrub, nothing great just some dude that could help.

 

 

i just think that trading AGon is plain dumb

The other thing is you can't expect Fox and Benitez to finish up 162 games. IMO, we need at least two more MLB quality guys in the pen or this season is going to be an exercise in futility. Having a guy like Helling late last season was a godsend (btw, he's out with a broken leg) and the FO is going to have to pull off a megatrade, and soon, to fill the obvious holes we have.

 

Who they trade remains up in the air but I can't believe at least one reg or even one of our starting five pitchers won't get moved in the next week to shore up the pen. With the play, and bat of Wilson Valdez looming at AAA trading Alex Gonzalez and cash for pitching seems to me to be the obvious answer, but that's just one man's opinion.

uh? ... are we looking to trade someone? ... first off i dont think we should trade AGon and dirupt the combo up the middle, that would be stupid.

 

secondly, dont worry about Mando he'll be ok 37 saves ... mark my words

 

 

 

i do think we need help in the pen ... how about a Tommy Phelps, Brian Banks and PTBNL for some scrub, nothing great just some dude that could help.

 

 

i just think that trading AGon is plain dumb

Okay, so you think my suggestion that we trade AGon is "stupid" and "dumb", that's your perrogative, if you accept the notion that trading second tier players (like Banks, Nunez, Tejera, Easley, Harris, etc.) won't get you quality bullpen help in return, then who do you trade?

 

You're not going to trade Lowell, Cabs, Conine, Castillo or Pierre. Choi has no trade value and neither does Castro until his situation is determined and you can't trade Redmond for the same reason. You aren't going to trade AJ, Beckett, Willis or Penny, or probably Oliver or Pavano until you know AJ's status.

 

The odd man out is AGon. Valdez by all accounts is ready for MLB now and no one questions his ability to play the position. And from what we've seen from him his bat can't be worse than Gonzalez.

 

What you're giving up in AGon is his 18 HRs last season, all but six coming before the all-star break. Wilson is a base stealer having stolen 49 bases last year between AA and AAA. In those two leagues he batted a combined .295. I for one would be willing to wave bye bye to Sea Bass if it meant getting a quality major league arm for the pen.

 

If you have a better idea I'd like to hear it.

i dont care about his 18 homers ... i do care abotu his defense ... and when i said to maybe do a package of Phelps, Banks, and PTBNL i wasnt asking for an Octavio Dotel back ... i did say a Regular guy that could fill in for the time, nothing special.

 

I dont wanna trade an AGon who provides EXELLENT defense and on top of that 18 homers from the 8th hole.... for hopefully a Steve Kline type player, which i doubt we'll get. i really dont think that if we trade him we'll get equivalent quality in return.

hmm how about Penny & AGon to cincy for Juan Castro, Willy Mo Pe?a and PTBNL ... that doesnt sound bad to me hahaha ... but no im not down to trade AGon.

Keep in mind that Wilson Valdez, along with being a speedster who can get on base ala Juan Pierre, is a fine defensive SS. In fact he was selected as the Isotopes "Defensive Player of the Year" in 2003 so I don't think you have much to worry about defensively.

 

As for not trying to get a Dotel (not neccessarily him) in return, with all due respect we need a guy like that not some ham sandwich who is barely a step above what we have now.

 

Were it me, I'd trade Gonzo even if we had to pick up $1 million or more of his salary for 2004 if it meant getting a first rate reliever. Any money we could save I'd use to try and lure UU back. I maintain we need two more quality arms in the pen, not just one. It's a long season.

 

--------

 

(Just read that UU signed with the Tigers. Wow. That said, I still believe we need two more quality guys in the pen and we can't wait until we know AJ's status to make a move)

What's Alex's contract now, 2 years 6 million?

 

I want to see how the bullpen situation plays out for now... a guy like Perisho or Neal could turn out to be part of the answer. Plus Oliver will probably be sent down there before long.

 

By the way, after his last outing, Benitez lowered his spring ERA to 3.24 with a perfect ninth and has retired 12 consecutive batters over four outings. I'm sure he'll have some magnificently blown saves, just like most closers, but on the whole I think he and Fox will be fine.

What's Alex's contract now, 2 years 6 million?

 

I want to see how the bullpen situation plays out for now...? a guy like Perisho or Neal could turn out to be part of the answer.? Plus Oliver will probably be sent down there before long.

 

By the way, after his last outing, Benitez lowered his spring ERA to 3.24 with a perfect ninth and has retired 12 consecutive batters over four outings.? I'm sure he'll have some magnificently blown saves, just like most closers, but on the whole I think he and Fox will be fine.

 

In no way am I denigrating what I expect will be excellent years from Benitez and Fox. My point is they can't do it every night. You want to start using Neal or Perisho as closers?

 

I'm not being flip or belittling your comment Hot, I just think you can't depend on those guys every night over a 162 game season. And I for one, don't want to wait until we're eight games out to make a move.

 

We all saw this coming in the fall and most of us I believe, thought our pen would be better than it is by now. And for the record, I didn't pick Gonzo because I have some dislike for him, it was more a process of elimination - who could we afford to trade that would bring us the most in return while not having a dramatic affect on play or attendance?

 

I'm open to making any move that improves our pen. If someone has a better idea I'd like to hear it.

Of all the good moves the FO has made picking up Mando and dropping Looper/UUU was probably the best. Mando is an undervalued relief ace and hes showing it with us this season.

 

 

Also Jack's use of Mando has been impeccable...the 2nd game in the last series for example when the score was tied. Some teams still subscribe to the "only use your closer in save situations" garbage. Amazing how Jack manages to be admired in stat and non-stat circles. I love this man.

Of all the good moves the FO has made picking up Mando and dropping Looper/UUU was probably the best. Mando is an undervalued relief ace and hes showing it with us this season.

 

 

Also Jack's use of Mando has been impeccable...the 2nd game in the last series for example when the score was tied. Some teams still subscribe to the "only use your closer in save situations" garbage. Amazing how Jack manages to be admired in stat and non-stat circles. I love this man.

Jack does not believe in stats as we know. :thumbup

 

 

 

The only stats he believes in are wins and losses.

 

 

 

He doesn't even care or know what OPS is.

Well, from what is observable Jack at least balances both approaches with the most obvious example being stolen bases. Last season we were on pace to break records in SB, but our CS was also very high. When McKeon took over we attempted far less steals, opting for only the safest occasions to run. But I think you were just ribbing me or something.