Didnt see the last part of that article..thanks for pointing it out.....Dont you guys want to win the wild card THIS year?? Why are we talking about a down-grade when we are making a run?? I say this deal does not happen unless we fall out of the race before the deadline.?

 

 

I know I proposed this before...but what if we gave Lee his 7 million in the off-season...or even traded him in the off-season...what stops us from getting Conine for Lee then?

Downgrade ? Only defensively but not offensively.Your blind if you think Dereck Lee is a better hitter.I'm sorry but get off Dereck Lee D*ck. Wow you are a moron. Lee has a better OPS then Conine in a pitchers park...what else is there to freaking compare? He is a better hitter right now and will only improve as this season goes on. And to set you straight juanky or whatever Ive never read moneyball. Wow you are a moron...........................

 

I could care less about ops.............

 

BOTTOM LINE

 

.300 Runner on scoring position > .240

 

Who produces more and better lifetime batting average?

Here is the choice at 1B for next year...ready...

 

One of our prospects/Brian Banks

or

Jeff Conine

 

I pick Conine, that simple!

See here is the thing, you guys look at the stats, but the stats that win games are RBI's. The runs batted in directly affect whether we win or not. Conine has more RBI's than Lee, and Conine doesn't get as many opportunities as Lee.

Who cares what you think? Can you back that up?

Can you prove him wrong?

Who cares what you think? Can you back that up?

Sure, Runs Batted In mean more runs for your team. When you score more runs than your opponent in baseball you win the game. That's how it goes.

 

I shouldn't have to explain this, but all you guys think about is "Moneyball" and you don't think about reality.

OK! Lets do a comparison if the almighty logic machine that is minus (lol). Heres the perfect Lee post done masterfully by Downrodeo using logic and statistics to back up his points:

 

The reason they don't keep stats on "clutch hitting" is because it'd be the most vague and arbitary stat in the world. I mean, where do you draw the line between what's a clutch hit and what's not? A guy knocks in 2 runs in the 8th to put his team ahead by a run, and it's a clutch hit...until the other team scores 6 in the next half-inning. Then the hit didn't really matter, because they lost anyway. Another good example, the series in Boston. In the 2nd game, Encarnacion homers late to make it a 3-run game. The Fish come back and win in the 9th, and now Encarnacion's hit is 'clutch.' The next day, Lee homers late to make it a 4-run game. But the Fish don't come back, so Lee's homer is meaningless. Doesn't really seem fair to Lee does it? Today Lee drew a bases loaded walk that tied the game at 1. But the Marlins went on to score 19 more times, so Lee's walk didn't really matter did it? Of course, if the Marlins won the game 2-1, then it would've been pretty important.

 

But I guess the stat that would best capture "clutch" hitting, if there were such a thing, would be the 'Close and Late' stat, which ESPN so graciously keeps track of. This season, in 'Close and Late' situations, Lee has an OPS of .597 in 43 at-bats. A pretty bad number. But if you COMBINE the 'Close and Late' stat from the 2000 season to the 2002 season, it comes out to a .996 OPS in 274 at-bats. Hmm...so which number is more likely to be an aberration? The .597 OPS compiled from a half season and 43 at-bats? Or the .996 OPS compiled from 3 full seasons and more than SIX times as many at-bats?

 

 

 

And then minus the heap of genious that he is comes back with this!:

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All you Dereck Lee lover argument is weak.If you watch enough Marlisn Baseball,you will know why Dereck is just an average 1b.

 

 

Wow. there you have it folks!

 

 

PS: I dont think any of you are stupid, and im sorry for name calling. I love all marlins fans! :happydance even hardheaded ones :lol

Trading for Conine only NEEDS to be done IF they will pick up some/most of his salary.

Sure, Runs Batted In mean more runs for your team. When you score more runs than your opponent in baseball you win the game. That's how it goes.

 

I shouldn't have to explain this, but all you guys think about is "Moneyball" and you don't think about reality.

wow...ok....you said Lee had more chances then Conine...I said can you back that up...still waiting...

And like I said. Ive never read moneyball and OPS is a statistic most fans use to rate hitters overall.

Guys we will not have Lee next year!

 

Here are your first base choices....

Banks/Prospects or Conine

 

I choose Conine.

He drives in runs and knows the Pro well.

Trading for Conine only NEEDS to be done IF they will pick up some/most of his salary.

According to rumors that what O's are going to do.Conine trade makes sense financially for the Fish and on the playing field.

OK! Lets do a comparison if the almighty logic machine that is minus (lol). Heres the perfect Lee post done masterfully by Downrodeo using logic and statistics to back up his points:

 

The reason they don't keep stats on "clutch hitting" is because it'd be the most vague and arbitary stat in the world. I mean, where do you draw the line between what's a clutch hit and what's not? A guy knocks in 2 runs in the 8th to put his team ahead by a run, and it's a clutch hit...until the other team scores 6 in the next half-inning. Then the hit didn't really matter, because they lost anyway. Another good example, the series in Boston. In the 2nd game, Encarnacion homers late to make it a 3-run game. The Fish come back and win in the 9th, and now Encarnacion's hit is 'clutch.' The next day, Lee homers late to make it a 4-run game. But the Fish don't come back, so Lee's homer is meaningless. Doesn't really seem fair to Lee does it? Today Lee drew a bases loaded walk that tied the game at 1. But the Marlins went on to score 19 more times, so Lee's walk didn't really matter did it? Of course, if the Marlins won the game 2-1, then it would've been pretty important.

 

But I guess the stat that would best capture "clutch" hitting, if there were such a thing, would be the 'Close and Late' stat, which ESPN so graciously keeps track of. This season, in 'Close and Late' situations, Lee has an OPS of .597 in 43 at-bats. A pretty bad number. But if you COMBINE the 'Close and Late' stat from the 2000 season to the 2002 season, it comes out to a .996 OPS in 274 at-bats. Hmm...so which number is more likely to be an aberration? The .597 OPS compiled from a half season and 43 at-bats? Or the .996 OPS compiled from 3 full seasons and more than SIX times as many at-bats?

 

 

 

And then minus the heap of genious that he is comes back with this!:

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All you Dereck Lee lover argument is weak.If you watch enough Marlisn Baseball,you will know why Dereck is just an average 1b.

 

 

Wow. there you have it folks!

 

 

PS: I dont think any of you are stupid, and im sorry for name calling. I love all marlins fans! :happydance even hardheaded ones :lol

Hey, theres this thing now. Its called an original thought. You think you can have one?

Sure, Runs Batted In mean more runs for your team. When you score more runs than your opponent in baseball you win the game. That's how it goes.

 

I shouldn't have to explain this, but all you guys think about is "Moneyball" and you don't think about reality.

wow...ok....you said Lee had more chances then Conine...I said can you back that up...still waiting... Are you kidding me? Let me go find the stats for you Shamrock.

He just says it better then Ive been trying, but thanks for the insult.

He just says it better then Ive been trying, but thanks for the insult.

Anytime

we could make this alot easier about Trading lee for conine, if they threw in Lightenberg, than there would be no arguing because it would be for sure a good deal

we could make this alot easier about Trading lee for conine, if they threw in Lightenberg, than there would be no arguing because it would be for sure a good deal

Id be for it.

According to rumors that what O's are going to do.Conine trade makes sense financially for the Fish and on the playing field.

Exactly! It's win-win!

 

You will lose Lee no matter what. Once you do, your only choice for 1B next year is a Rookie or Banks. Well, if you can put a career PPS . 300 hitter there who drives in 100 RBI EVERY year instead of one of them, plus brings you veteran leadership, and for the price of virtually nothing it must be done!

Then the problem becomes they won't be inclined to pick up Mr. Marlins salary.

enough with the stats and all the bulls*** on who's clutch or not. not everything is based on stats, you know by just watching. Lee almost never does something important when its needed. still, he's a desecent player with a good bat, we shouldnt just give him away. now the idea of who will play 1st for us next year is important. if we're thinking about next year, than i guess you take this trade. but if you're thinking abut now than you try to squeeze out a little more out of the O's.

Then the problem becomes they won't be inclined to pick up Mr. Marlins salary.

Exactly. This is not about adding players, it's a money trade that doesn't neccisarily mean we're downgrading for lower salary. It means we are staying the same for more veteranship, RBI and average ability for half the price.

I dont wanna get to ahead of myself right now, but assuming we got conine, where would he bat...in the 5th or 6th hole?

Dammit can they make the trade already!both benitez and conine trade!lee aint gonna be a marlins next year anyways!

Conine has had about 30 more chances then Lee. marlins02 is right though and im tired of arguing and the cheap shotr from juanky arnt helping. Maybe try and add something useful to a discussion next time. Sorry if I said anything too nasty, but I stand by my beliefs. :plain

enough with the stats and all the bulls*** on who's clutch or not. not everything is based on stats, you know by just watching. Lee almost never does something important when its needed. still, he's a desecent player with a good bat, we shouldnt just give him away. now the idea of who will play 1st for us next year is important. if we're thinking about next year, than i guess you take this trade. but if you're thinking abut now than you try to squeeze out a little more out of the O's.

:thumbup Great post......