July 20, 200322 yr The debate is to spend it or not. For is Cote, against is Miller(?). Negative First Posted on Sun, Jul. 20, 2003 Money for stadium can be better spent COMMENTARY / JEFF MILLER jamiller@herald.com So, the Marlins are willing to contribute $100 million to a new downtown stadium. Great, that should cover one-third of the cost, and one-third of a commitment is about as much as the Marlins are worth right now. They want you to pay the rest? Good luck. Don't you already pay like $4 for a hot dog, $6 for a beer and how much is Mike Hampton getting again? It's pretty simple. The Marlins' stadium issue is their problem, not yours. That means they are the solution, not you. On a perfect planet, these things are partnerships, the team and the city working together for the good of all. But few places are less perfect than this one. There are roughly 1,000 projects more deserving of tax dollars than a new tank for Billy the Marlin. Add to that this team's flaky history, and you're standing on a foundation as solid as tomato soup. One of the problems with professional sports franchises is their inherent sense of self-importance. It's as if South Florida, minus the Marlins, suddenly would shrink in size and relevance to Yeehaw Junction. Nope, it doesn't work that way. This corner of the world doesn't need a pro baseball team, doesn't need the Panthers or Heat, doesn't even need the Dolphins in order to retain its big-league status. Miami will be Miami as long as there's sun and sand and tourists drawn to both. Los Angeles lost two NFL teams in one year, and a decade later, people there are still waiting to feel the impact. The Packers might make Green Bay, but the Marlins are nothing more than an accessory, a piece of jewelry on the ear of a giant. Now, obviously, this thing won't work without some contribution from the public. Jeffrey Loria didn't make his money by only writing checks. But there's no way the citizens of Miami or Dade County or Broward County should be asked to dig the deepest, particularly when so many of those citizens still seem to be wildly indifferent toward Major League Baseball. Cote no doubt is trumpeting the refrain of civic pride, but it should be noted that Cote on weekends dresses like a Heat dancer and rents himself out for private parties. Basing a business decision on passion is like buying a painting in the dark. Not quite sound practice. The Marlins want you to think $100 million is an enormous step, but they're wrong. That total does signify something important, yes, but also something minimal -- a start. jamiller@herald.com Now the Positive Posted on Sun, Jul. 20, 2003 Ballpark would pay off big for everyone COMMENTARY / GREG COTE gcote@herald.com There are encouraging signs that the Marlins and city of Miami seem willing to agree on sharing the cost of a new domed or retractable-roof downtown ballpark. I suggest, at the risk of being seen as politically incorrect, that this is good news. Major League Baseball is a positive thing to have to help sprawling, fractured South Florida feel a little more like a community. Big-time sports -- along with symphonies, nice roads, art museums, good schools and other indications of culture and cohesive society -- have their role in improving our overall quality of life. I'm not much into high-brow arts but would recognize the role of a renowned opera house in further enriching our quilt. Similarly, one need not be a huge sports fan to appreciate what the Dolphins mean to ''us'' as a people. Cut to the chase. Money. This is where I disagree with Jeff Miller Lite, whose wallet unlimbers with a rusty creak. As a taxpayer, I am willing to contribute to what betters my community. That might mean better schools, even if I don't have kids. Or opera, even if I can only name one of the Three Tenors. Or a new stadium, even if I'm not into baseball. What the Marlins and city seem to have in mind makes sense in the real world. Miami city manager Joe Arriola says Marlins management pledges to contribute $100 million to a ballpark estimated to cost around $325 million. Meaning the city would pay around 69 percent. The 10 most recent major-league stadiums built or opening next year have cost an average of $333 million, of which teams have accounted for an average of $118 million. Meaning the cities have paid about 65 percent. If you say the Marlins don't ''need'' a new stadium, here is your wake-up call: The franchise will never make enough money to spend enough money to have a winning team playing at the ex-Joe Robbie Stadium. The team gets zero revenue there from suites and premium seats, and next to none from concessions, parking and advertising. There are plenty of revenue streams available to the city of Miami that would make the impact on local taxpayers negligible, painless. Yet this stadium cooperative, once it becomes official, will confront the typical two obstacles: ? The Anti-Tax Zealot. Plenty of people who live in the real world yet decline to abide its reality will huff and shout and sign petitions against a single dime of public funding to help build (and I quote) ``a playground for fat-cat billionaire owners!'' ? The Anti-Miami Zealot. The downtown location will be objectionable to many in Broward and Palm Beach counties. What a pity Broward politicos have been cowering mimes on the topic. Everybody wants a stadium in wonderful proximity, but not too close. This is a good location, near the breezes of Biscayne Bay. And this is a fair funding proposal that sees the Marlins doing their share. gcote@herald.com The Herald has a poll, go vote! http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/
July 20, 200322 yr Author Herald Poll Update Should the City of Miami help the Marlins fund a new stadium? Yes 27 votes (64%) No 15 votes (36%) 42 people have voted so far Your vote was Yes on 7/20/2003 9:30 am Looks good so far :thumbup
July 20, 200322 yr Jeff Miller was probably one of those kind of kids at school that would hate sports and wouldve rather spent their saturday night studying than doing something socially productive
July 20, 200322 yr CitanX, dont give Miller too much credit. Judging by his writing and his poor rhetorical style, he certainly did not spend much time studying either. What this is, is a struggle between how people see democracy and the communal good. Democracy, or more appropriately (since we dont really live in a demokratia) capitalism, stresses greed and selfishness. To look out for one's own interests. To help pay for a baseball stadium would take communal funding at this point. Which means some people would have to pay for a service/business they themselves dont use. How would that be different than people who pay for schools but do not attend? People who pay for roads, but dont have cars or even use them less frequently than others? People who pay for homeless shelters, food stamp programs, and other social programs designed to help those that are 'less fortunate'? The list goes on, and eventhough baseball teams/owners should be pushed to pay for their own stadiums, the fact is if they dont get help - they will go somewhere where they will get help. That said, I dont see why the Marlins have to go all the way and build a $300MM stadium. They should start small, around $100MM and gradually upgrade the facility (add a retractable dome, more seats) as the fan interest and money go up. I think that is an alternative that could appease both sides...
July 20, 200322 yr Author Johnny, you can't do what you said. It's all or nothing. What you want is a minor league park and then upgrade it to major league class once it is feasable, and it won't work. BTW, what ever happened to Bobby Maduro Stadium? Did it burn down?
July 20, 200322 yr How would that be different than people who pay for schools but do not attend? People who pay for roads, but dont have cars or even use them less frequently than others? People who pay for homeless shelters, food stamp programs, and other social programs designed to help those that are 'less fortunate'? The list goes on, and eventhough baseball teams/owners should be pushed to pay for their own stadiums, the fact is if they dont get help - they will go somewhere where they will get help. Call me crazy, but I think comparing a baseball stadium to the the education of youth, maitenance of the infrastructure and provision of social programs a little bit of a stretch. Fact is, an endeavor like this requires far more than a plurality of support. It requires massive backing by a large majority of the populace because of it's controversy. It'll get done, but not for another couple of years; And only then if the Marlins continue to play well enough to draw some steady attention for more than a couple of months.
July 20, 200322 yr Ok Crazy. Sure, it is different, but the principle is still the same. People are paying money for the common good. It doesnt have as its intent the bottom line, and by that I mean making a profit. For instance, why should we pay for social programs - for those who cant or wont help themselves? We could use that money to pay for better education, better roads, etc. My point is, a part of being 'civilized' or joining up into a society requires everyone in that society to pay for the well beings of their fellow citizens. It requires sacrifice. Who is not to say that a baseball team is not important? Surely it may not be as important as those things stated earlier, but nonethless has its own value and importance. The Romans had their games, and they served an important purpose. As did the Greeks with their Olympics. Both inspired civic pride and brotherhood as well as entertained. Something a winning baseball team can do as well. We all saw what a different place this was to live in after winning the WS in '97, albeit for a brief time. Sadly, we never got to truly feel the impact because that team was torn apart only 2 weeks later. That may or may not happen again. But it was certainly a good thing. I am not saying pay for the stadium, I am just bringing up a point of view, that is all.
July 20, 200322 yr First of all, this isn't NEWS its COMMENTARY. Second, Jeff is merely parroting his boss's directives. Like a pimp reporting to "Mr. Big" (for those of your old enough to remember the old black&white 'B' gangster movies we all grew up on), the bad guy behind the silhouetted screen is Herald Sprts Editor Richard Bush, chief Marlins hater/Dolphins mouthpiece here in South Florida. You notice how there is no mention of Wayne Huizenga when he mentions $4 hot dogs and $6 beers? That money of course doesn't go to the Fish, it goes right into Wayne's greedy, dirty money filled pockets. When you pay to park at ProPlayer, its Wayne not the Marlins who receives all the revenue. The Herald in upcoming weeks will pull out all the stops to try and keep the Fish from moving forward with plans for a new stadium. You can expect Bush to bring out Linda Robertson on an almost daily basis to start her particular brand of vitriolic Marlins-bashing, you can expect Clark Spencer, Dan Lebatard, Miller and the rest to leave no stone unturned in their efforts to protect the cashflow of their patron saint, Wayne Huizenga. So don't call this news, there isn't an ounce of reporting to be found anywhere in this piece. Call it what it is, propaganda. Plain and simple.
July 20, 200322 yr Cape, Bobby Maduro stadium was demolished within the last few years. I used to remember going there as a kid for Orioles spring training as that was the only baseball we had down here. From the looks of it before it was demolished, it hadnt been taken care of in a long time-in fact, the grass grew so long inside the stadium that it looked like a jungle in there, a very odd sight.
July 20, 200322 yr Should the City of Miami help the Marlins fund a new stadium? Yes 67 votes (71%) No 28 votes (29%) 95 people have voted so far Your vote was Yes on 7/20/2003 11:38 am
July 20, 200322 yr I just voted No. Should the city of miami and the tax payers contribute public money to a private business? of course not. What if 10 years from now the stadium is not payed for yet and the city of Ft. Lauderdale offers a new stadium? Well, the team will move and th city of Miami will be left with a huge debt. Just like the debt the city still has on the old Miami Arena.
July 20, 200322 yr Author Orisha, that's why you sign leases. You have a 30 year lease and the team signs it before the ballaprk is constructed.
July 20, 200322 yr Author I say put it on the ballot this November and let the peopl vote, you'll be surprised of how many people approve of a new ballpark. Remember a retractable roof ballpark can do more than just have baseball games. It can have many other events, even Football games.
July 20, 200322 yr Orisha, if youre using the Miami Arena as an example, the Heat and Panthers were never forced to sign long-term commitments to play there, and it was built at a time when skyboxes and luxury boxes werent as necessary as they are now with escalating salaries of players. Secondly, if the Marlins got a stadium, they wouldnt even be looking for a new one nor would any other city try to build them a new one. I dont even understand why anyone would try to do that. Theyre not going to build a temporary fix (as unfortunately the Miami Arena was with the city's zeal to get an NBA team as quickly as possible) that will suit them for now, the city would not aloow that to happen again-this is going to have to be a home for the future or nothing.
July 20, 200322 yr I still feel it should be funded privately. I know it won't happen because there's a presedence in other citys and the marlins would threaten with moving if it's not paid by the City of Miami, but it is really not the city's problem and should be funded privately.
July 20, 200322 yr I still feel it should be funded privately. I know it won't happen because there's a presedence in other citys and the marlins would threaten with moving if it's not paid by the City of Miami, but it is really not the city's problem and should be funded privately. If it's funded privately, the team gets every dime. If it's funded publicly, the city and the team share the revenue. When was the last time you saw a stadium built with all private money? That's right, Pro Player! And that was built by Joe Robbie. It's not like a bunch of other teams go around building stadiums with private money and it's unreasonable for us to ask the city, because you need government money. It may hurt the economy at first, but in the long-term building a stadium would boost the economy...
July 20, 200322 yr Author It should be privately funded, but in this day in age, it won't happen. The thing is that the ballpark would give back revenue to everyone who has helped pay for it (Marlins, City, etc.) that will help pay off the loan and eventually make the facility self-reliant. The MetroDome is like that. They built it for $50 million, and it doesn't need anymore cash than that. Soon they may need some cash to replace the roof or remodel it since it has lived passed it's expected life.
July 20, 200322 yr Author For the record, the land that Pro Player Stadium sits on is owned by Miami-Dade County and was leased to Joe Robbie for $1 for 99 years. That's about a little more than a cent a year.
July 20, 200322 yr DID ANYONE HERE WQAM TODAY? DAVID SAMSON SAID THE MARLINS HAVE NOT DECIDED TO GIVE(or even thought about it) $100MIL TO A STADIUM AND THAT WAS A LIE.... ok proceed
July 20, 200322 yr It was never the Marlins who said they had pledged $100m to build a stadium, it was the City of Miami city manager who made that statement. Neither Loria or Samson was ever quoted as making that statement.
July 20, 200322 yr How soon we forget..... John Henry floated the idea to build a small, expandable stadium (25K seats at first) with his own money and boy did he get it from all sides. He probably didn't even check with MLB before he said it, as they would veto such an idea out-of-hand. As to Bobby Maduro, I was there the weekend before it was torn down & got some good pics. It was Memorial Day 2001, and as I drove up to BMS, WQAM announced that Bolesy had been fired. So the 2 intertwine in my mind. BMS was a great little ballpark - I saw Mantle & Maris there in the 60s. It had a cantilevered half-roof - I once saw a guy throw a rope up over the rafters and pull himself up hand-over-hand. What memories........
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