July 22, 200321 yr first of all please give me some names of players who have good OPS that suck.... you think some overrate Derrek Lee, but you underrate him.... Conine will NOT put us over the top..... that is just being foolish How am I underating him? Awsome Defense Best defensive 1b right now with out a doubt Mediocre offensively He can't drive runs in when runners are on and he non existance when the Fish need to make a comeback and only reason he is mediocre and not below average is because of his power. AS fas as OPS I might have exaggerated a little bit but you can find player who aren't very good hitters and don't excel at driving runner while scoring position. how can you say he is mediocre offensively?
July 22, 200321 yr Author Lee ain't coming back period and his market value isn't exactly high. earth to your face, Marlins are winning and with the Ballpark talks, Loria might increase the payroll. If he doesnt, then he wont keep up the fan increase and might not get support for the ballpark. Also, Lee is ARBITRATION ELIGIBLE, which means hes going to make about 6.5 mil. we can trade him in the offseason when we have more time to think and get a better deal instead of rushing everything. We probably will even keep him. WOooo WOoooo, clue train, All aboard, next stop: you LOL Yes Loria and Beinfest would consider rasing payroll to pay for a over price and overated 1b basement.You must be dreaming if you think Dereck Lee will be back in a Marlins uniform and ask Shamrock himself on what are the chances of Lee coming back. Of course they can keep him and trade in offseason but the Marlins need production now out first base not someone who occasionally produces and more than half the time in meaningless games.His trade value won't increase any higher than it is unless he start hitting. you cant get what he does for 6.5 million. NO way. His defense is the best in the majors and saves 1-2 runs a game. Thats like hitting a HR a game. His offense is very nice despite he has no clutch. Hes among the top 5 1b in the NL and probably the AL as well. Unless you want to see some sorry 1b signed like the Redsox did when they stacked up in 1b for 1 mill each then I would be ok, but i dont see there being david ortiz's, kevin millar's in next year free agency that will go for 1-2 mill. NO way. MIght as well stick with LEE. WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! His defense save 1-2 runs per game? Umm no.... His defense doesn't save a run per game but it does save runs through out the regular season but is no too often.
July 22, 200321 yr Author first of all please give me some names of players who have good OPS that suck.... you think some overrate Derrek Lee, but you underrate him.... Conine will NOT put us over the top..... that is just being foolish How am I underating him? Awsome Defense Best defensive 1b right now with out a doubt Mediocre offensively He can't drive runs in when runners are on and he non existance when the Fish need to make a comeback and only reason he is mediocre and not below average is because of his power. AS fas as OPS I might have exaggerated a little bit but you can find player who aren't very good hitters and don't excel at driving runner while scoring position. how can you say he is mediocre offensively? You know how the Majority of his RBI's and HR'S come in garbage timea and we all should know if you follow the team like you and I. There no best stat that really tell the story on how prouctive a player is offensively than hitting while players are in scoring position.In order to be productive you need to drive runs in these situation consistently and obviusly Dereck is not even close.Well Dereck never been a good hitter anyways so that also doesn't help him.
July 22, 200321 yr first of all please give me some names of players who have good OPS that suck.... you think some overrate Derrek Lee, but you underrate him.... Conine will NOT put us over the top..... that is just being foolish How am I underating him? Awsome Defense Best defensive 1b right now with out a doubt Mediocre offensively He can't drive runs in when runners are on and he non existance when the Fish need to make a comeback and only reason he is mediocre and not below average is because of his power. AS fas as OPS I might have exaggerated a little bit but you can find player who aren't very good hitters and don't excel at driving runner while scoring position. how can you say he is mediocre offensively? You know how the Majority of his RBI's and HR'S come in garbage timea and we all should know if you follow the team like you and I. There no best stat that really tell the story on how prouctive a player is offensively than hitting while players are in scoring position.In order to be productive you need to drive runs in these situation consistently and obviusly Dereck is not even close.Well Dereck never been a good hitter anyways so that also doesn't help him. Again the easy argument using your situational statistics is that Lee has been the most consistent run producer in these situations the last 3 years. You use half a season and now think hes worthless. It just doesnt make sense. I thought my picture was funny btw no offense taken. Why do you think OPS is a such a scary number? All does it add SLG% and the OBS%. Whats so awful about that? Ill try and find an article for you of the most "clutch" players in history statistically and you wont recognize ONE, SINGLE NAME, because plain and simple its for the most part luck to get a hit with RISP. And for Marlins2003...My apparent "lack" of statistical knowledge was a data set taken over a 100 years of baseball. Everyone who has undertaken the study has come to the same conclusion. Maybe look at the data yourself and make your own conclusions? Because its obviuous you have not. All the information has been laid out for you guys...you just choose to not believe in reality because you need to explain the "mythical clutch" ability. I have faith that you will soon come around once most passionate baseball fans have come around. Its just sad that it will take that long Not trying to talk down to you guys! Much love for all fish fans. :cool
July 22, 200321 yr Minus, these are the same guys who, if we don't make the playoffs, will be yelling and bad-mouthing ownership for not doing enough to win. I told you, you can't argue with a zealot, no amount of common sense is going to sway them. Derrick Lee is their God, he can do know wrong. 0-4 and six (6) men left in scoring position. No big deal, in their minds its not his fault, the other eight guys are to blame and not him. Their idea of a trade is to offer Blaine Neal and Vlady for Randy Johnson. You and I are often on different sides of many arguments but this one, I got your back.
July 22, 200321 yr Minus, these are the same guys who, if we don't make the playoffs, will be yelling and bad-mouthing ownership for not doing enough to win. I told you, you can't argue with a zealot, no amount of common sense is going to sway them. Derrick Lee is their God, he can do know wrong. 0-4 and six (6) men left in scoring position. No big deal, in their minds its not his fault, the other eight guys are to blame and not him. Their idea of a trade is to offer Blaine Neal and Vlady for Randy Johnson. You and I are often on different sides of many arguments but this one, I got your back. Again your being completely illogical. Im no fan of Lee. Im just trying to present the logical. You take ONE game to prove your point as opposed to over 3 seasons worth of data refuting your argument. Ridiculous! How can I persuage you differently? You have a warped sense of baseball reality. :lol
July 22, 200321 yr Minus, these are the same guys who, if we don't make the playoffs, will be yelling and bad-mouthing ownership for not doing enough to win. I told you, you can't argue with a zealot, no amount of common sense is going to sway them. Derrick Lee is their God, he can do know wrong. 0-4 and six (6) men left in scoring position. No big deal, in their minds its not his fault, the other eight guys are to blame and not him. Their idea of a trade is to offer Blaine Neal and Vlady for Randy Johnson. You and I are often on different sides of many arguments but this one, I got your back. I would pull the trigger on the Conine trade if another player was included...Like a Mora, Gibbons, reliever. But straight up Conine for Lee is a raping. Why not jsut trade him in the off-season?
July 22, 200321 yr Author Minus, these are the same guys who, if we don't make the playoffs, will be yelling and bad-mouthing ownership for not doing enough to win. I told you, you can't argue with a zealot, no amount of common sense is going to sway them. Derrick Lee is their God, he can do know wrong. 0-4 and six (6) men left in scoring position. No big deal, in their minds its not his fault, the other eight guys are to blame and not him. Their idea of a trade is to offer Blaine Neal and Vlady for Randy Johnson. You and I are often on different sides of many arguments but this one, I got your back. I would pull the trigger on the Conine trade if another player was included...Like a Mora, Gibbons, reliever. But straight up Conine for Lee is a raping. Why not jsut trade him in the off-season? Because production is needed and Conine can drive in runs and a better hitter period.Obviusly there a big difference in age but is not D.Lee is going to become a better hitter in next couple of years. Conine plus Cash - D.Lee makes sense
July 22, 200321 yr Hatteberg would be cheap, and a great addition for the price... ANother 1-year deal would be offered though, so I don't know if he would want that...
July 22, 200321 yr Author Minus, these are the same guys who, if we don't make the playoffs, will be yelling and bad-mouthing ownership for not doing enough to win. I told you, you can't argue with a zealot, no amount of common sense is going to sway them. Derrick Lee is their God, he can do know wrong. 0-4 and six (6) men left in scoring position. No big deal, in their minds its not his fault, the other eight guys are to blame and not him. Their idea of a trade is to offer Blaine Neal and Vlady for Randy Johnson. You and I are often on different sides of many arguments but this one, I got your back. Again your being completely illogical. Im no fan of Lee. Im just trying to present the logical. You take ONE game to prove your point as opposed to over 3 seasons worth of data refuting your argument. Ridiculous! How can I persuage you differently? You have a warped sense of baseball reality. :lol One game?I follow Dereck Lee over past three years and is the same story with him.
July 22, 200321 yr Minus, these are the same guys who, if we don't make the playoffs, will be yelling and bad-mouthing ownership for not doing enough to win. I told you, you can't argue with a zealot, no amount of common sense is going to sway them. Derrick Lee is their God, he can do know wrong. 0-4 and six (6) men left in scoring position. No big deal, in their minds its not his fault, the other eight guys are to blame and not him. Their idea of a trade is to offer Blaine Neal and Vlady for Randy Johnson. You and I are often on different sides of many arguments but this one, I got your back. Again your being completely illogical. Im no fan of Lee. Im just trying to present the logical. You take ONE game to prove your point as opposed to over 3 seasons worth of data refuting your argument. Ridiculous! How can I persuage you differently? You have a warped sense of baseball reality. :lol One game?I follow Dereck Lee over past three years and is the same story with him. Sham is in his own little "safe" world where he has all his little pieces stacked neatly just the way he wants them, in his mind anyone who doesn't agree with him is thinking "illogically". Why? because Sham has all the answers and if Sham says the moon is made of green cheese you had better agree or incuur his wrath. Last night's game is just one of a hundred, two hundred, maybe three hundred games in his professional career where Derrick Lee has shown he doesn't have what it takes offensively. His glove is terrific, his fielding % is .996. Last time I checked Conine's is .993, so over one thousand (1,000) ATTEMPTS, Conine makes three more errors than Lee. For some I guess that's a big deal. For me it's not. Over the next few weeks we'll be playing the Expos, Braves, Dodgers, Phillies and Diamondbacks. We have our destiny right here in our hands. Anyone wanna bet how well Derrick performs with men in scoring position and the game on the line over the next ten days?
July 22, 200321 yr If you care to talk about Lee and his "production" over the last three years forget about RISP and tell me why he doesn't make it out of spring training until July. Forget the games we lose because he can't hit with runners on base now, think of the games we lose in the first THREE MONTHS OF THE SEASON when D. Lee doesn't hit at all.
July 22, 200321 yr If you care to talk about Lee and his "production" over the last three years forget about RISP and tell me why he doesn't make it out of spring training until July. Forget the games we lose because he can't hit with runners on base now, think of the games we lose in the first THREE MONTHS OF THE SEASON when D. Lee doesn't hit at all. and y dont u say all the games we win thx to DLee ?
July 22, 200321 yr And which would those be? It's hard to recall all of them since when I reminisce about D. Lee AB's it's usually a recollection of a three run blast when the Fish are already up by a touchdown.
July 22, 200321 yr DLee is a far superior defensive player than Conine, dont bring in fielding percentages, Conine couldnt hold Derrek's jock..... Marlins2003, so if the Marlins dont make the playoffs you think I will say this ownership didnt do enough? You obviously have no idea what you are talking about
July 22, 200321 yr Who cares about defense at 1B when your team can't score in a whorehouse? Please God, make the Fish trade D. Lee for some precambrian, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, no-defense playing, uncoordinated monster who only does one thing....knocks the pee out of the ball.
July 22, 200321 yr Who cares about defense at 1B when your team can't score in a whorehouse? Please God, make the Fish trade D. Lee for some precambrian, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, no-defense playing, uncoordinated monster who only does one thing....knocks the pee out of the ball. God I love it when you talk dirty Mr. FiletO'Fish !!
July 22, 200321 yr Agreed, LF is an issue, but it's not as pressing as 1B because whoever is playing in LF isn't due for a huge pay increase like Douchebag Derrick is. Good point though... Cabrera ain't cuttin' it.
July 22, 200321 yr If you wait until the off-season you lose what little value he has... Once he gets close to arbitration the Marlins will lose alot of their leverage in trade talks. Dump him now.
July 22, 200321 yr Author If you wait until the off-season you lose what little value he has... Once he gets close to arbitration the Marlins will lose alot of their leverage in trade talks. Dump him now. :thumbup
July 22, 200321 yr If you wait until the off-season you lose what little value he has... Once he gets close to arbitration the Marlins will lose alot of their leverage in trade talks. Dump him now. At seasons end, he'll have a gold-glove on his resume, an 30 HR, 90+ RBI, 20 SB season. Seeing that he's a paper or a stat player, he'll be worth just as much then as he is now...
July 22, 200321 yr possible 1B free agents: Frank Thomas Scott Hatteberg-thats who i want Brad Fullmer Scott Spezio-arn eligible but may nto be resigned Rafael Palmeiro Mark Grace Julio Franco Eric Karros Fred McGriff Tony Clark JT Snow this doesnt include any arb eligible players(besides Spezio) i would like the marlins to get either JT Snow.. or Rafel Palmerio
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