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Admin Beinfest ranked 6th among GM


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If Theo Epstein and/or Brian Cashman are in the top 10, I am going to s*** a brick.

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Epstein is a great GM.

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Give any major league GM an almost unlimited pay roll and they too could be considered great.

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I don't view Brian Cashman as a great GM... But I think Epstein is fantastic.

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"Admin is very aggressive and he has great conviction," Dodgers GM Paul DePodesta says. "It's a lot easier to deal with people when they have a lot of conviction with what they're doing. For me it was a pleasure. I wouldn't hesitate to deal with him again."

 

can't say i blame him.

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Guest Fritz

If Theo Epstein and/or Brian Cashman are in the top 10, I am going to s*** a brick.

728624[/snapback]

 

Epstein is a great GM.

728631[/snapback]

 

Give any major league GM an almost unlimited pay roll and they too could be considered great.

728641[/snapback]

 

I don't view Brian Cashman as a great GM... But I think Epstein is fantastic.

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Because one's a Yankee and one's a Red Sock?

 

:plain

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If Theo Epstein and/or Brian Cashman are in the top 10, I am going to s*** a brick.

728624[/snapback]

 

Epstein is a great GM.

728631[/snapback]

 

Give any major league GM an almost unlimited pay roll and they too could be considered great.

728641[/snapback]

 

I don't view Brian Cashman as a great GM... But I think Epstein is fantastic.

728645[/snapback]

Because one's a Yankee and one's a Red Sock?

 

:plain

728647[/snapback]

 

I actually like the Yankees much more than I do the Red Sox.

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Guest Moneyball

That's an impressive list.

 

Scherholtz I always thought of as over-rated because Ted Turner was spending wads of cash on the team. But now that Scherholtz has pulled amazing trades out of his ass and still manages to field a pennant contender after all the players they've lost my opinion on him has totally changed.

 

Cashman, Epstein and Stoneman shouldn't be regarded so highly because they've got 100+ million dollar payrolls. A number almost anyone can win with (except Steve Phillips).

 

Cashman especially considering some of the recent signings and trades he's made that have totally bombed.

 

I'd still take a GM in a contending small market team over any of those guys mentioned above.

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If Theo Epstein and/or Brian Cashman are in the top 10, I am going to s*** a brick.

728624[/snapback]

 

Epstein is a great GM.

728631[/snapback]

 

Give any major league GM an almost unlimited pay roll and they too could be considered great.

728641[/snapback]

The Nomar trade was cut throat and it worked perfectly.

 

He signed David Ortiz for 1 million.

 

He got three players for Pedro.

 

But Im not going itno this because it wont change your opinion and it will just waste my time.

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If Theo Epstein and/or Brian Cashman are in the top 10, I am going to s*** a brick.

728624[/snapback]

 

Epstein is a great GM.

728631[/snapback]

 

Give any major league GM an almost unlimited pay roll and they too could be considered great.

728641[/snapback]

The Nomar trade was cut throat and it worked perfectly.

 

He signed David Ortiz for 1 million.

 

He got three players for Pedro.

 

But Im not going itno this because it wont change your opinion and it will just waste my time.

728799[/snapback]

I happen to think Theo is a very good GM

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not that I am a big Beane fan but why you so down on him Swift?

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Anyone can win with the system, and it's not like he "stole" Hudson, Mulder or Zito...they were all no-brainer picks.

 

He could make a believer of me if he wins with this year's club.

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not that I am a big Beane fan but why you so down on him Swift?

728798[/snapback]

 

Anyone can win with the system, and it's not like he "stole" Hudson, Mulder or Zito...they were all no-brainer picks.

 

He could make a believer of me if he wins with this year's club.

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well Huddie was a 6th round pick but I dont know if Beane was there for him in 1997... but it still needs credit for taking those players in those spots

 

He also drafted Harden in the 17th round, and Crosby in the 1st

 

He isnt the GM God all the Moneyballers make him out to be but he has done a fine job in the drafting area as well as players in general

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not that I am a big Beane fan but why you so down on him Swift?

728798[/snapback]

 

Anyone can win with the system, and it's not like he "stole" Hudson, Mulder or Zito...they were all no-brainer picks.

 

He could make a believer of me if he wins with this year's club.

728814[/snapback]

well Huddie was a 6th round pick but I dont know if Beane was there for him in 1997... but it still needs credit for taking those players in those spots

 

He also drafted Harden in the 17th round, and Crosby in the 1st

 

He isnt the GM God all the Moneyballers make him out to be but he has done a fine job in the drafting area as well as players in general

728822[/snapback]

 

Beat me to it, Hudson was taken the year before Beane got there, and he did find a gem in Harden.

 

Other than that, he's living off his reputation...his minor leaguers have more perceived value because "he picked them."

 

I'm not trashing him, I'm just saying he's overrated...

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I think Schuerholz is a bit overrated because he has a future HOF manager and a should be HOF pitching coach. OTOH he did win a WS with Kansas City, and had many winning seasons with them.

 

Ryan is a very underrated GM. He brought the Twins from a rebuilding time in which they needed to dump many contracts, and have rebuilt almost EVERY year.

 

Jocketty has ripped many people off.

 

Interesting when they were hired. One of the big things behind the Braves success is how they stable they are in mangement.

 

? John Schuerholz, Braves,10/10/90

 

? Terry Ryan, Twins,10/16/92

 

? Walt Jocketty, Cardinals,9/13/94

 

? Joe Garagiola Jr., D'backs, 10/14/94

 

? Chuck LaMar, Devil Rays, 7/19/95

 

? Gerry Hunsicker, Astros, 11/10/95

 

? Kevin Towers, Padres, 11/17/95

 

? Brian Sabean, Giants, 9/30/96

 

? Billy Beane, A's, 10/17/97

 

? Ed Wade, Phillies, 12/9/97

 

? Brian Cashman, Yankees, 2/3/98

 

? Dan O'Dowd, Rockies, 9/20/99

 

? Bill Stoneman, Angels,11/1/99

 

? Allard Baird, Royals, 6/17/00

 

? Ken Williams, White Sox, 10/24/00

 

? Dave Littlefield, Pirates, 7/13/01

 

? Dan Evans, Dodgers, 10/3/01

 

? John Hart, Rangers, 11/1/01

 

? Mark Shapiro, Indians, 11/1/01

 

? David Dombrowski, Tigers, 11/5/01

 

? J.P. Ricciardi, Blue Jays, 11/14/01

 

? Admin Beinfest, Marlins, 2/12/02

 

? Omar Minaya, Expos, 2/12/02

 

? Jim Hendry, Cubs, 7/5/02

 

? Doug Melvin, Brewers, 9/25/02

 

? Theo Epstein, Red Sox, 11/25/02

 

? Jim Beattie/Mike Flanagan, Orioles, 12/4/02

 

? Jim Duquette, Mets, 6/12/03 *

 

? Dan O'Brien, Reds, 10/27/03

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I have that magazine. Schwarz' reasons for each ranking are weak. He basically ranked General Managers not by their keen insight, leadership skills or great deal making, but rather what situation they stumbled themselves into. Two of the three worst rated were the Royals' Allard Baird and Devil Rays' Chuck Lamar (sandwiched between them is Bill Bavasi, whom I'm sure would have ranked up there with Beinfest if his team hadn't tanked last year). In fact, the only three to receive a grade lower than C, but that's another rant, perhaps suggesting Schwarz's view of those who hold the position at the major league level. Anyway... Baird and Lamar have produced two great farm systems, gotten good young players and prospects in trades, even minor middle reliever trades, and have seen their teams on a recent upswing. Yet because both are given meager resources (and one might take a back seat to his team's public relations department in personnel affairs. Again, another rant) they are ranked below the Bowdens and Hendrys.

 

Don't want to start another Beinfest vs. Dombrowski thread, but just tossing that out there. I, for one, am confused by his philosophy for the past few months. Best way to describe using just one word: aggressive.Wreckless? Potetially great, potentially awful and nothing inbetween? I don't know, we know the outcome hasn't been as the last one suggests. Just seems it's at odds with the more patient build-through-the-farm and hope to luck falls on your side that was protrayed by the Marlins prior to his tenure and the first few years here. The jury is out on his ability to find and develop minor league talent. Perhaps I'm off here. Some of his moves could be described as one or the other or both depending on your view. For example the stocking of relief arms was an aggressive move to fix a problem that troubled the team last year, one that might have left the team unable to address other holes, but at the same time it was a precautionary move with the addition of Leiter and bringing back Valdez and Willis.

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not that I am a big Beane fan but why you so down on him Swift?

728798[/snapback]

 

Anyone can win with the system, and it's not like he "stole" Hudson, Mulder or Zito...they were all no-brainer picks.

 

He could make a believer of me if he wins with this year's club.

728814[/snapback]

well Huddie was a 6th round pick but I dont know if Beane was there for him in 1997... but it still needs credit for taking those players in those spots

 

He also drafted Harden in the 17th round, and Crosby in the 1st

 

He isnt the GM God all the Moneyballers make him out to be but he has done a fine job in the drafting area as well as players in general

728822[/snapback]

 

Beat me to it, Hudson was taken the year before Beane got there, and he did find a gem in Harden.

 

Other than that, he's living off his reputation...his minor leaguers have more perceived value because "he picked them."

 

I'm not trashing him, I'm just saying he's overrated...

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no argument here :thumbup

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not that I am a big Beane fan but why you so down on him Swift?

728798[/snapback]

 

Anyone can win with the system, and it's not like he "stole" Hudson, Mulder or Zito...they were all no-brainer picks.

 

He could make a believer of me if he wins with this year's club.

728814[/snapback]

Nothing wrong with this year's Athletics team, atleast compared to other years. Just unproven pitchers - rookies - guys you're not going to recognize as good pitchers for a few years unless they play on your team, no matter how well they pitch this year or the next. They have the talent. Maybe more than Hudson-Zito-Mulder. Harden was probably the best pitcher on the staff last year.

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LaMar is easily one of the worst GMs in baseball, regardless of what position he is in with his salary. Perhaps the best GMs are in the biggest markets for the same reason the best players are in the biggest markets, thats where they get paid the most. GMs dont just "stumble into situations" they are pursued just like players and the best GMs can pick what job they want (i.e. Billy Beane chose Oakland over Boston, and Paul Depodesta turned down several offers until the Dodgers asked). Cashman is a great GM precisely because he has won with Steinbrenner on his tale. 1980's Steinbrenner was all over his GM, telling him what to do and they were one of the worst teams in baseball. Cashman was allowed to do his thing without Steinbrenner meddling in his business and he built the championship nucleus of Posada, Jeter, Bernie, Rivera, O'Neill, players almost any franchise could have had via draft or amatuer free agent or cheap trade. They were not coveted free agents ala A-rod or Giambi. Now Steinbrenner has begun to mess around with the rosters and they are buying everyone in sight. Just give Cashman his due for the dynasty he built the "old-fashioned" way. As for Billy Beane, he is easily one of the best GMs in baseball. I mean what is the difference between his situation and Lamar or Baird's except for the fact that he wins? Even the Moneyball draft was solid, there starting LF (Swisher), 5th starter, or soon to be, (Blanton) plus their closer (Dotel, whom they got for Teahen) all came from that draft. Now the Fish have about as many picks as the A's had in 2002 and if they get those results from the draft i'll be ecstatic.

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