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The manager doesn't play


musk
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I am sick of all these people saying this season is Jack's fault. Last I checked all Jack is SUPPOSED to do is make up a lineup card, sit on the bench, and make some pinch hit moves. I am not saying that I agree w/ his strategy sometimes, but that is just his style. The same style that won in 03.

 

Jack doesn't pitch on the mound and give up 3 Home Runs in one inning (not one of them going to the Home Run Derby Champion) and will later ask for $10mil a year even though he barely has a .500 career record.. Jack doesn't get paid a couple of million dollars and barely hits .250 and has 12 less home runs than he did this time a year ago. Jack also does not let runners steal bases as they please. Oh yeah, and Jack isn't sitting in our 3 and 4th spot and combined has more than 100 strikeouts from the 2 most important spots in the lineup. And also, Jack doesn't have the weakest CF's arm in baseball so ANYTHING hit to center field will easily score a runner from 2nd with no hesitation. Not to mention struggles to get on base as well which is the only reason he is even playing CF.

 

You see, Jack does none of these things yet he is to blame for all of it? I understand the mentality of when the going gets rough look at management. But this has been going on since May. This guy is not the problem......yet. I agree that managerial changes are a nesesary evil in baseball. But I believe this is a tad premature for a person who brought a team from the depths of the NL East and suprised everyone just 2 years ago and was in the WC hunt last year. No, you don't go on forver expecting mediocre baseball being played. But point less fingers at the person who sits on the bench and more at the players on the field.

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I can switch channels and get on with my life and salvage my night

 

This guys qoute from the "Good thing we suck" thread which he also started.

 

What do you care your watching animal planet or the outdoor games on espn right now.

 

Leave the rants to true fans and continue to change those channels.

 

What a Clown!!!!!

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Dude, you ENJOY watching the team you love getting humiliated day in and day out by subpar teams. If by August we are sitting back at 2nd or 3rd in the division and top 5 in the WC I will come back and retract all my remarks and admit that I let my emotions take the best of me. But even the pitching that was supposed to make us great has let us down (minus Olsen, Mohler and Willis).

 

Oh, and btw, just because i switch the channel doesnt mean i dont follow the team anymore. I will always follow the team and root for them. But it kills me to watch them lose so bad. And I live in central Illinois most of the year and i STILL follow the team more closely than most people in south florida do.

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I can switch channels and get on with my life and salvage my night

 

This guys qoute from the "Good thing we suck" thread which he also started.

 

What do you care your watching animal planet or the outdoor games on espn right now.

 

Leave the rants to true fans and continue to change those channels.

 

What a Clown!!!!!

856527[/snapback]

 

How thick are you? Changing the channel in a blowout does not make anyone less of a fan. In fact going to the more games than someone else doesnt make u a better fan either. Its all about what you feel about your team, your loyalty, it cant be defined in definites. I get to work at 6 am every morning. If we're losing 13-3 i'm going to go to bed early, why? B/c theres no need to be sleepy the next day ( as I usually am) to suffer. If the game is close I'll watch it. That doesnt make me any less of a fan than you are. I and I'm sure musk as well love this team and are completely loyal. You need to grow up and stop making absurd posts. Whether you agree or not about McKeon is a different story, but the legitimacy of his post should not be in quesiton nor his love of the team.

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I can switch channels and get on with my life and salvage my night

 

This guys qoute from the "Good thing we suck" thread which he also started.

 

What do you care your watching animal planet or the outdoor games on espn right now.

 

Leave the rants to true fans and continue to change those channels.

 

What a Clown!!!!!

856527[/snapback]

 

How thick are you? Changing the channel in a blowout does not make anyone less of a fan. In fact going to the more games than someone else doesnt make u a better fan either. Its all about what you feel about your team, your loyalty, it cant be defined in definites. I get to work at 6 am every morning. If we're losing 13-3 i'm going to go to bed early, why? B/c theres no need to be sleepy the next day ( as I usually am) to suffer. If the game is close I'll watch it. That doesnt make me any less of a fan than you are. I and I'm sure musk as well love this team and are completely loyal. You need to grow up and stop making absurd posts. Whether you agree or not about McKeon is a different story, but the legitimacy of his post should not be in quesiton nor his love of the team.

856541[/snapback]

 

 

I appologize maybe i was bit to harsh. I was only making reference to the way that his post from this morning sent everyone in a tizzy. we may have some problem areas but we do not suck. I was just making reference to a past comment based on a present one and I apologize for calling you a clown Musk.

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I am sick of all these people saying this season is Jack's fault. Last I checked all Jack is SUPPOSED to do is make up a lineup card, sit on the bench, and make some pinch hit moves. I am not saying that I agree w/ his strategy sometimes, but that is just his style. The same style that won in 03.

 

Jack doesn't pitch on the mound and give up 3 Home Runs in one inning (not one of them going to the Home Run Derby Champion) and will later ask for $10mil a year even though he barely has a .500 career record.. Jack doesn't get paid a couple of million dollars and barely hits .250 and has 12 less home runs than he did this time a year ago. Jack also does not let runners steal bases as they please. Oh yeah, and Jack isn't sitting in our 3 and 4th spot and combined has more than 100 strikeouts from the 2 most important spots in the lineup. And also, Jack doesn't have the weakest CF's arm in baseball so ANYTHING hit to center field will easily score a runner from 2nd with no hesitation. Not to mention struggles to get on base as well which is the only reason he is even playing CF.

 

You see, Jack does none of these things yet he is to blame for all of it? I understand the mentality of when the going gets rough look at management. But this has been going on since May. This guy is not the problem......yet. I agree that managerial changes are a nesesary evil in baseball. But I believe this is a tad premature for a person who brought a team from the depths of the NL East and suprised everyone just 2 years ago and was in the WC hunt last year. No, you don't go on forver expecting mediocre baseball being played. But point less fingers at the person who sits on the bench and more at the players on the field.

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Anyway...

 

Jack also doesn't inspire or motivate, which is what he did when he came in midseason 2003. In 2003, he came in with his laid back approach, "Hey just have fun," "We're underdogs anyway, so let's play hard" mentality, and it got the players going.

 

But Jack's routine has gotten old and he's inspring and motivating no one anymore. We need a new manager, because such a move will create a spark, and hopefully rejuvenate this group of players which SHOULD have a much better record.

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its no problem man. Marlins fans are actully a lot more intellegent than dolphins fans (you should see the amount of turn-coats on their forums). people just need to realize although i want our team to play in october so i can go to a game when they play st louis in st louis and be the only teal wearing person there, i am also a realist and have seen the NL playoff teams (dont pay much attention to the AL) and see what they have done to get there. Who knows, maybe we can be like the AL East where the Yankees Orieals and BoSox are trading spots left and right.

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That's all he does? He doesn't design game plans? He doesn't call pitches? He doesn't call in game strategy? He doesn't start or halt the running game? He doesn't get relievers ready? He doesn't make the decision when to substitute? He doesn't set the tone of the team? He doesn't motivate and handle players in a way to get the best out of them? He doesn't teach them new things?

 

How much does this job pay? I know a few monkeys who are looking for jobs.

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That's all he does? He doesn't design game plans? He doesn't call pitches? He doesn't call in game strategy? He doesn't start or halt the running game? He doesn't get relievers ready? He doesn't make the decision when to substitute? He doesn't set the tone of the team? He doesn't motivate and handle players in a way to get the best out of them? He doesn't teach them new things?

 

How much does this job pay? I know a few monkeys who are looking for jobs.

856610[/snapback]

You know some monkeys that are looking for jobs? :blink:

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That's all he does? He doesn't design game plans? He doesn't call pitches? He doesn't call in game strategy? He doesn't start or halt the running game? He doesn't get relievers ready? He doesn't make the decision when to substitute? He doesn't set the tone of the team? He doesn't motivate and handle players in a way to get the best out of them? He doesn't teach them new things?

 

How much does this job pay? I know a few monkeys who are looking for jobs.

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Game Plans, and Pitches are mostly handled by the pitching coach.

 

In game strategy - Same as in 2003. That won a world series.

 

Substitution and Bullpen management - Read closer, I addressed that as "pinch hitting"

 

Tone and motivation - I'm sure hes trying the same things as he tried in 2003. He's not stupid. And older people are more set in there ways so it's not like hes going to chagne overnight.

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That's all he does? He doesn't design game plans? He doesn't call pitches? He doesn't call in game strategy? He doesn't start or halt the running game? He doesn't get relievers ready? He doesn't make the decision when to substitute? He doesn't set the tone of the team? He doesn't motivate and handle players in a way to get the best out of them? He doesn't teach them new things?

 

How much does this job pay? I know a few monkeys who are looking for jobs.

856610[/snapback]

 

The Marlins are losing games because they don't have the attitude, nor the resiliency, of 2003.

 

I could go in and and call hit and runs and call for Jeff Conine to pinch hit, that doesn't take any particular skill or talent.

 

Look at the White Sox and the Nationals, what do they have? attitude, motivation. That's what the Marlins are lacking the last two years. They need a spark, IMO.

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If you don't think Jack hasn't cut back the running game and hit and run calls since mid 2003 or that players haven't goten fed up with his harsh approach in the midst of losing, you have your head up your ass.

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1. He cut back the running game because Pierre forgot how to steal bases. He was getting thrown out all the time. Plus, with our anemic offense, it was giving the opponent outs. Plus, we had more team speed in 2003 with Lee, Encarnacion and Pudge all stealing bases along with JP and Castillo. That's not the main reason we're not winning though, IMO.

 

2. Players HAVE gotten fed up with his harsh approach. That's my point, they've stopped responding to Jack's methods, they have no motivation.

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1. He cut back the running game because Pierre forgot how to steal bases. He was getting thrown out all the time. Plus, with our anemic offense, it was giving the opponent outs. Plus, we had more team speed in 2003 with Lee, Encarnacion and Pudge all stealing bases along with JP and Castillo. That's not the main reason we're not winning though, IMO.

 

2. Players HAVE gotten fed up with his harsh approach. That's my point, they've stopped responding to Jack's methods, they have no motivation.

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And you know this stuff? How?

 

Don't you think there's room to consider there are other reasons for JP's early problems like he was injured, or that when Castillo was doing poorly in April he wanted to get at least one of them on for Delgado and Miggy? It's just not that cut and dried.

 

And I don't think any of us knows what's going on in the clubhouse and how Jack is perceived by the players. They certainly looked motivated out there last night, right up through the ninth inning.

 

Maybe they are playing for their own pride and love of the game, and Jack is an impediment but I don't think there's any substantial empirical evidence to guide us to that conclusion.

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RFerry,

Has the team changed since 2003?

As a 3hole hitter, Pudge is hit and run hitter, Cabrera and Delgado are not. Is Lowell hitting in late 04 or this year? Has Pierre been hurt and is Castillo still hurt?

 

Jack is not managing differently nor has his style changed. Different players with different work ethics dictates handling players differently.

it is not that hard to understand.

 

Should they be winning? Yes

Is McKeon partially to blame? Yes

Will this be his last Year? Yes

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1. He cut back the running game because Pierre forgot how to steal bases. He was getting thrown out all the time. Plus, with our anemic offense, it was giving the opponent outs. Plus, we had more team speed in 2003 with Lee, Encarnacion and Pudge all stealing bases along with JP and Castillo. That's not the main reason we're not winning though, IMO.

 

2. Players HAVE gotten fed up with his harsh approach. That's my point, they've stopped responding to Jack's methods, they have no motivation.

856637[/snapback]

 

And you know this stuff? How?

 

Don't you think there's room to consider there are other reasons for JP's early problems like he was injured, or that when Castillo was doing poorly in April he wanted to get at least one of them on for Delgado and Miggy? It's just not that cut and dried.

 

And I don't think any of us knows what's going on in the clubhouse and how Jack is perceived by the players. They certainly looked motivated out there last night, right up through the ninth inning.

 

Maybe they are playing for their own pride and love of the game, and Jack is an impediment but I don't think there's any substantial empirical evidence to guide us to that conclusion.

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First of all, I'm not stating facts, I'm stating my opinions.

 

The reason for saying these things is that, on paper, this team should be 20 games over .500. They have underperformed quite substantially. Their hitting is tops in the league, their pitching is tops in the league, yet they're just missing something.

 

They're missing, in my opinion, the desire, the resiliency, the attitude to win games. Past champions have all had these qualities, and this team does not. This, in my opinion, comes straight from the manager's ability to motivate the team.

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If you don't think Jack hasn't cut back the running game and hit and run calls since mid 2003 or that players haven't goten fed up with his harsh approach in the midst of losing, you have your head up your ass.

856631[/snapback]

1. He cut back the running game because Pierre forgot how to steal bases. He was getting thrown out all the time. Plus, with our anemic offense, it was giving the opponent outs. Plus, we had more team speed in 2003 with Lee, Encarnacion and Pudge all stealing bases along with JP and Castillo. That's not the main reason we're not winning though, IMO.

 

2. Players HAVE gotten fed up with his harsh approach. That's my point, they've stopped responding to Jack's methods, they have no motivation.

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jeez by no means has pierre forgotten how to steal bases. you just dont forget something like that when its a huge asset to your game. im assuming that the injury from spring training really never got fully healthy until the last couple weeks b/c if you noticed pierre has been doing alot more base running and jack has been a tad more aggressive lately. I will def agree we had more team speed. Luis is looking a tad old this year the way he is running (and yes i know he has an ongoing hamstring problem). i really feel this is a huge reason we are not winning. we give up way to many outs in regards to sacrificing runners over (this can be solved by more hitting and running). getting runners in scoring position with less than 2 outs is also attributing to this. by the time we get a man on third there are 2 outs and our clutch hitting goes to sleep. i also do agree that i think the team is not responding like it used to to Jack. it almost seems like Jack has aged 20 years since 2003

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MarlinatPenn,

 

Who/what motivates you to do well in school?

Are they responsible for your performance at school?

 

Just curious

856682[/snapback]

 

Just as the players motivate themselves, and as we all motivate ourselves in our own endeavors, everyone can use a good kick in the rear end every once in a while to wake them up and get them to push just a little bit harder. McKeon isn't giving them that extra push.

 

You cannot deny that McKeon re-energized this team in 2003 when he came in. He came in with the attitude: "Hey let's have fun. We're not supposed to win. Let's play hard and have fun." The team completely turned around after he came in and gave the guys the motivation to play just a bit harder.

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MarlinatPenn,

 

Who/what motivates you to do well in school?

Are they responsible for your performance at school?

 

Just curious

856682[/snapback]

 

Just as the players motivate themselves, and as we all motivate ourselves in our own endeavors, everyone can use a good kick in the rear end every once in a while to wake them up and get them to push just a little bit harder. McKeon isn't giving them that extra push.

 

You cannot deny that McKeon re-energized this team in 2003 when he came in. He came in with the attitude: "Hey let's have fun. We're not supposed to win. Let's play hard and have fun." The team completely turned around after he came in and gave the guys the motivation to play just a bit harder.

856686[/snapback]

its sad. in 2003 we werent supposed to win and we did. in 2005 we were supposed to win are not. strange turn of events

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I don't think the way Jack handles his players has changed, it's just that coupled with losing and not living up to expectations that it might be taken the wrong way and might translate onto the field.

 

 

Anyone want to explain why we aren't calling for the hit and run more? That's been the biggest change in game strategy in my opinion.

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I don't think the way Jack handles his players has changed, it's just that coupled with losing and not living up to expectations that it might be taken the wrong way and might translate onto the field.

 

 

Anyone want to explain why we aren't calling for the hit and run more? That's been the biggest change in game strategy in my opinion.

856698[/snapback]

 

 

bro ive been screaming that till im blue in the face. its drives me f***ing nuts the mount of useless outs we give to other teams just to get 1 damn runner to third base who never scores.

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RFerry,

 

agree about statement #1

 

We have one player who can effective hit and run (Castillo) but he is always behind Pierre. Like you always say, this may not be the best line up but it does give us our most speediest people on base before the supposed power hitters.

 

Supposed power hitters like Cabrera, Delgado, Lowell, Enc do not like runners moving while hitting and often swing and miss a lot anyway. Usually not too effective running with these guys at bat. With Delgado, taking runner off first eliminates big hole between 1 and 2nd.

 

Thus, it leave LoDuca as our only other potential hit and run guy. Not really sure about AGON?

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MarlinatPenn,

 

Who/what motivates you to do well in school?

Are they responsible for your performance at school?

 

Just curious

856682[/snapback]

 

Uhm, ourselves? go to the inner city where kids perform badly everyday in school (that is if they go to school). are you going to fire the teacher because she cant teach kids that dont care. come on, these guys are professionals and they get paid a lot of money to win. if they cant motivate themselves then to hell with them.

 

 

I don't think the way Jack handles his players has changed, it's just that coupled with losing and not living up to expectations that it might be taken the wrong way and might translate onto the field.

 

 

Anyone want to explain why we aren't calling for the hit and run more? That's been the biggest change in game strategy in my opinion.

856698[/snapback]

 

yeah, i think we've relied less on small ball this year. It is because we are relying on our 3-4 guys to drive in the runs. and if lowell wasn't doing so bad he could be a great 5th spot. but now what happens if we bunt runners over (which there have been a couple of times where jack should have bunted but didnt) our other guys cant drive them in.

 

Plus, the Hit and Run is probably one of the most controversial plays in baseball. ask 10 managers about the hit and run and you'll get 10 different answers on why its good or bad. our only hit and run canidates are castillo, cabrera, and lo duca. guys who can consistently hit .300.

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