I see a pattern in our team's history regardless of who owns it or who is the GM. I feel that the Marlins have been fortunate enough to have 2 of the best GMs in baseball since their inauguration in Dave Dombrowski and Admin Beinfest, but there is one problem that seems to not change here. It is the Marlins' traditional delay in getting rid of what should have obviously been booted out previously. Examples are as follows:

 

Bryan Harvey (RP) ***Boy, did Dombrowski blow that one; we could have had Admin "Chipper" Jones if Dave didn't get greedy and want quite a bit more.

Rene Lacheman (manager) ***Hey, he knew how to get himself thrown out of the game to make us forget that the fish lost.

Richie Lewis (RP) ***never saw a lead that he didn't want to blow.

Orestes Destrade (1B) ***Big difference between those Japanese parks and the Bermuda Triangle over here.

Junior Felix (RF, or at least that was where he stood)

Todd Dunwoody (OF) ***And you say that he's better than Preston Wilson, Cliff Floyd, and Mark Kotsay???

Vic Darensbourg (RP) ***I even joked when he was finally traded that his departure would be worth about 10 more wins because he wasn't around to blow any more leads or make blowout victories into drama-filled intrigue.

Gregg Zaun © ***How many times did he play catch with the CF when he was trying to throw out a basestealer?

John Boles (manager) ***Did we really have to wait for an uprising? Wasn't the embarrassment of being outmanaged by Bobby Valentine in NY enough?

Jeff Torborg (manager) ***And why was he managing again after the fiascos in Chicago and NY? OH yeah, he's friends with the Lorias. Anything longer than his first day or any SP throwing 150 pitches was too long. Did we have to have to wait until Burnett joined the likes of Len Barker, Jack McDowell, Alex Fernandez, Wilson Alvarez, Bobby Thigpen, Sid Fernandez and several others as pitchers whose careers were ruined or setback by Torborg?

 

There are many other names that I can come up with that were here too long, but I won't go on forever.

 

So now I come to our current, "seems to be here too long" names; Jack McKeon and Bill Robinson.

 

I have to copy-and-paste a little from what I wrote on John Boles for Jack McKeon, but I'll make some changes as needed. Here goes:

 

Do we have to wait for an uprising? Isn't the embarrassment of being outmanaged by nearly every manager in baseball enough?

 

For Bill Robinson ***Hmmmm, I'm no genius, but the fact that he was fired by the Mets because of offensive underachievement and inconsistency along with baserunning mistakes by the players seems to follow the pattern that we see here. Is it a coincidence? I don't think so. That would be like saying that it has been just coincidence that Jeff Torborg is always at the scene of a pitching injury.

 

I deon't entirely absolve the players, but you can't get rid of all 25. Bringing in others would not make a difference because they would just be trying to be part of the team and that's kind of scary right now with so muck dissatisfaction with the manager and coaching staff.

 

Anyway, I had to get that off of my chest.

 

Admin, please do something!!! What are you waiting for?

 

:banghead

One correction. Dombrowski wanted Chipper Jones. He was offered Ryan Klesko and Kent Mercker. Holding out for Chipper cost him

still waiting anxiously for your first positive post PostiveHype.

 

You must be saving up for something really good!

 

Can't wait! :evil

Positive posting includes constructive criticism and reality from 100% fans.

 

We (herein) are developing a 3rd place finish mentality.

Which some of us do not accept.

We will challenge the FO and Jack and the mediocre coaches.

Good post Positive Hype.

too bad no other teams have made mistakes or not traded players at the right time, or traded for the wrong players over the past 15 years.

 

terrible post.

I see a pattern in our team's history regardless of who owns it or who is the GM. I feel that the Marlins have been fortunate enough to have 2 of the best GMs in baseball since their inauguration in Dave Dombrowski and Admin Beinfest, but there is one problem that seems to not change here. It is the Marlins' traditional delay in getting rid of what should have obviously been booted out previously. Examples are as follows:

 

Bryan Harvey (RP) ***Boy, did Dombrowski blow that one; we could have had Admin "Chipper" Jones if Dave didn't get greedy and want quite a bit more.

Rene Lacheman (manager) ***Hey, he knew how to get himself thrown out of the game to make us forget that the fish lost.

Richie Lewis (RP) ***never saw a lead that he didn't want to blow.

Orestes Destrade (1B) ***Big difference between those Japanese parks and the Bermuda Triangle over here.

Junior Felix (RF, or at least that was where he stood)

Todd Dunwoody (OF) ***And you say that he's better than Preston Wilson, Cliff Floyd, and Mark Kotsay???

Vic Darensbourg (RP) ***I even joked when he was finally traded that his departure would be worth about 10 more wins because he wasn't around to blow any more leads or make blowout victories into drama-filled intrigue.

Gregg Zaun ? ***How many times did he play catch with the CF when he was trying to throw out a basestealer?

John Boles (manager) ***Did we really have to wait for an uprising? Wasn't the embarrassment of being outmanaged by Bobby Valentine in NY enough?

Jeff Torborg (manager) ***And why was he managing again after the fiascos in Chicago and NY? OH yeah, he's friends with the Lorias. Anything longer than his first day or any SP throwing 150 pitches was too long. Did we have to have to wait until Burnett joined the likes of Len Barker, Jack McDowell, Alex Fernandez, Wilson Alvarez, Bobby Thigpen, Sid Fernandez and several others as pitchers whose careers were ruined or setback by Torborg?

 

There are many other names that I can come up with that were here too long, but I won't go on forever.

 

So now I come to our current, "seems to be here too long" names; Jack McKeon and Bill Robinson.

 

I have to copy-and-paste a little from what I wrote on John Boles for Jack McKeon, but I'll make some changes as needed. Here goes:

 

Do we have to wait for an uprising? Isn't the embarrassment of being outmanaged by nearly every manager in baseball enough?

 

For Bill Robinson ***Hmmmm, I'm no genius, but the fact that he was fired by the Mets because of offensive underachievement and inconsistency along with baserunning mistakes by the players seems to follow the pattern that we see here. Is it a coincidence? I don't think so. That would be like saying that it has been just coincidence that Jeff Torborg is always at the scene of a pitching injury.

 

I deon't entirely absolve the players, but you can't get rid of all 25. Bringing in others would not make a difference because they would just be trying to be part of the team and that's kind of scary right now with so muck dissatisfaction with the manager and coaching staff.

 

Anyway, I had to get that off of my chest.

 

Admin, please do something!!! What are you waiting for?

 

:banghead

859605[/snapback]

 

Oops, I forgot to mention that I did revisit my joke about Vic Darensbourg many months later because he was part of that Juan Pierre trade and the Marlins did win 10 more, made the playoffs, and won the WS. It was a corny joke, but anything pro-Marlins was fun when they won the championship.

 

As for the Chipper part, all I can remember that the names floating around were a package of Ron Gant along with 1) a choice of Wohlers, Stanton, or Mecker and 2) a choice of Chipper or Klesko. I don't remember everything in it, but do remember that Dave got greedy. No matter who he would have accepted, the fish would have at least got something for a pitcher that got injured again and was done.

 

I also forgot to mention another current name that needs to go. Nate Bump seems to be following, although to a lesser degree, the tradition of Richie Lewis and Vic Darensbourg. Except that he isn't lefty nor takes a deep breath before he enters the game like Darensbourg used to.

 

I'd also keep an eye on Logan Kensing. Maybe before we trade Lowell, we should have Kensing throw practice with him. I'm sure that Lowell slump will be permanently over. :mischief2

 

As for me being questioned about my name in relation to my posts. I'm being honest about what I see. I am a fan that believes that there isn't too much wrong with the talent and am bothered that many people think that the "cure all" is trading alot of players. Sorry, but I'd like to see another manager that plays "small ball" get this group before I trade anyone because I see too many mistakes occuring and too much base-to-base running. All I hear out of Jack and Bill and many others is that we don't have good situational hitting. Well, I have to ask, since when is the only way to score with base stealers is by getting those extra hits? Why do we have to get 4 hits, 4 walks, or a combination of both to score a run in an inning? Not to mention waiting for the 3 run homer.

 

Personally, I feel that another manager, like say Ozzie Guillen would have the fish about 10 games up in this division with this same roster.

 

When I see that happening, I will have something positive to write. Does anyone see anything positive in this team that I missed?

 

I'll also add, that it really gets annoying to see fans say that everything is OK. Jack should stay and, even though I don't think that players should be traded, the same fans don't think the players should be traded either. I say at least have a legitimate point of view. Look at the standings and look at our record. Something needs to be done. How can anyone say that everything is OK? Did you all buy some special candy from Willy Wonka?

 

Either you feel that it's Jack's fault (which I do) or you feel that it's the player's fault (which I partially blame). There is clearly something wrong; at least ackowledge that!!!

 

:banghead

too bad no other teams have made mistakes or not traded players at the right time, or traded for the wrong players over the past 15 years.

 

terrible post.

859639[/snapback]

 

I'm not saying that they are the only organization in which this happen, but they seem to be the one that does it frequently.

 

Where a team like Philadelphia had fans and players begging for Bowa to fired 2 seasons and NY begging for Valentine for the same length of time, it isn't a routine for them. The Marlins seem to have it as a tradition that seem to be continuing agin this year. Are they waiting for what will be the 2nd player uprising in a few years to oust a very unpopular manager? Haven't they looked at his history with other teams and former players?

 

I think that this organization needs to stop waiting to do the obvious. This team isn't going to change under Jack no matter what players are on this roster.

 

Right now, I bet alot of players could care less if they are traded away from this team and when any players are traded, we may hear quite a few comments on the way out that will open alot of eyes as to what's going on in this team.

 

:banghead

You can look at every team in the league and point out bad blunders over the last 12 years. Even with the mistakes that the Marlins have made they've done well to win 2 World Series in that time. Remarkable really. As for this year, there is clearly something wrong. It's called player's underperforming. Of our 8 starting position players nobody is having a breakout or even much above average year offensively. 2 starters are having way off years, one dreadfully off. Our team defense seems to be not as tight as previous years. It's frustrating to watch, as we knew going in the potential this team had. Our expectations were never higher. We all want the team to get better, and it adds to the frustration when nothing is done. Unfortunately, all the options on paper don't make the team any better. On paper we still have an excellent roster. It's frustrating, but the players just need to perform up to their abilities. Saying McKeon is the problem makes no more sense than saying Torre is the reason why the Yankees aren't doing so well either. Torre and McKeon are both doing the same things they did in 2003. The players just aren't puling their weight.

Pierre, I beg to differ and say that Cabrera is having a breakout year. You could argue AGon and Encarnacion too.

dead weight??????

 

30 runs in 3 games??????

 

56 runs allowed in 6 games??????

 

5 and 6 in the last 6 games we have played......

 

the dead weight consists of the following MLB REJECTS

 

-Nate Bump 0-3 with a 4.03 ERA " lucky bastard didnt get charged with any runs last night even thou he gave up 5 hits and 3 walks in 2 innings."

 

-Valerio de los Santos 1-0 with 5.63 ERA "the man come from the brewers orgnization WTF were we thinking?"

 

-Randy Messenger has a 6.48 ERA "but i know he will be back in the minors when beckett comes back"

 

Chris "f***ing"Resop 7 innings pitched and 8 runs given up!!!!!! with a 9.39 ERA"

 

and we all know about MOTA

 

any word on when Valdez, Spoony and Alfonseca come back?????

 

i wanna fire the entire pen except Mecir,Vargas and Jones......

 

thats ya dead weight

the dead weight consists of the following MLB REJECTS

 

-Nate Bump 0-3 with a 4.03 ERA " lucky bastard didnt get charged with any runs last night even thou he gave up 5 hits and 3 walks in 2 innings."

 

-Randy Messenger has a 6.48 ERA "but i know he will be back in the minors when beckett comes back"

 

Chris "f***ing"Resop 7 innings pitched and 8 runs given up!!!!!! with a 9.39 ERA"

 

and we all know about MOTA

 

i wanna fire the entire pen except Mecir,Vargas and Jones......

 

thats ya dead weight

859741[/snapback]

odom, you are officially a moron

 

and I keep getting fumber when I read your posts

Yea that horrible Marlins org. is always holding on to dead weight. We are so horrible we 've only won 2 world series in 11 years. :plain

On the other hand, their commitment to their personnel is admirable.

Yea that horrible Marlins org. is always holding on to dead weight. We are so horrible we 've only won 2 world series in 11 years. :plain

859990[/snapback]

 

shhh! :lol

Pierre, I beg to differ and say that Cabrera is having a breakout year. You could argue AGon and Encarnacion too.

859711[/snapback]

 

Even though he's not running as much, Castillo is having a hell of a year as well.