July 18, 200521 yr Mike Lowell is not good. Why do people want to keep him? He has something like 10 home runs in the past 160 games, its something really bad like that. You dont pay that much money to a player like that.
July 18, 200521 yr I went to Orioleshangout and found this from a poster who is like edcanes to them..A.k.a an insider.. "Just got back from Disney World last evening so I thought I would give my contact in the warehouse a call this morning. The O's have a very solid offer on the table with Florida but the Marlins seem to be leaning toward a package from the White Sox. The Chicago deal may depend on the signing of an extension by Burnett. The Orioles are ready to trade as soon as the Fish say done deal. This info was as of early this morning."-Bigbird-orioleshangout.com
July 18, 200521 yr Obviously the O's want that deal because they know that Penn is overrated and Bigbie and Kline aren't difference makers. All they are giving up is Julio, who can be replaced. White Sox is the way to go.
July 18, 200521 yr Obviously the O's want that deal because they know that Penn is overrated and Bigbie and Kline aren't difference makers. All they are giving up is Julio, who can be replaced. White Sox is the way to go. 861538[/snapback] Penn is the centerpiece of what the Marlins are getting.
July 18, 200521 yr You guys are forgeting the most important thing. "Admin Bigbie" is easily the most annoying name in baseball. I couldn't stand hearing that name every day. What the hell is a "bigbie?"
July 18, 200521 yr You guys are forgeting the most important thing. "Admin Bigbie" is easily the most annoying name in baseball. I couldn't stand hearing that name every day. What the hell is a "bigbie?" 861551[/snapback] Simple. Its the opposite of a Littlebie
July 18, 200521 yr Author You guys are forgeting the most important thing. "Admin Bigbie" is easily the most annoying name in baseball. I couldn't stand hearing that name every day. What the hell is a "bigbie?" 861551[/snapback] Simple. Its the opposite of a Littlebie 861553[/snapback] All these trade rumors are making us a little delirious I think.
July 18, 200521 yr Mike Lowell is not good. Why do people want to keep him? He has something like 10 home runs in the past 160 games, its something really bad like that. You dont pay that much money to a player like that. 861516[/snapback] Exactly, some kids on here dont understand the business part of baseball. They magically expect Lowell to hit 25-30 HR again. Not gonna happen. If we wait another year to trade Lowell then NO ONE will take him. He is damaged goods. The time to deal him is now.
July 18, 200521 yr Ya know.....I don't think this trade with the O's is as bad as everyone is making it out to be. But maybe that's just me.
July 18, 200521 yr Why do we want Bigbie? But Penn looks like a good pitcher, and he is only 20 years old. Willis, Olsen, Vargas and Penn are all under 23 I believe. Talk about a young rotation. 861449[/snapback] because bigbie has a lot of potential and he's pretty good he can be a bench player he's batting .280 that's very good for a bench player. i don't think penn is ready to be in the majors and i definetly don't like him as much as arroyo but i like the package deal from the orioles better TWO very good bullpen arms, a platoon player with encarnacion or maybe a starter, and a great prospect who could be turned around and dealt to the A's for Barry Zito!
July 18, 200521 yr Why do we want Bigbie? But Penn looks like a good pitcher, and he is only 20 years old. Willis, Olsen, Vargas and Penn are all under 23 I believe. Talk about a young rotation. 861449[/snapback] because bigbie has a lot of potential and he's pretty good he can be a bench player he's batting .280 that's very good for a bench player. i don't think penn is ready to be in the majors and i definetly don't like him as much as arroyo but i like the package deal from the orioles better TWO very good bullpen arms, a platoon player with encarnacion or maybe a starter, and a great prospect who could be turned around and dealt to the A's for Barry Zito! 861604[/snapback] :plain We don't need a bench player. Thebench players we have are rooting anyways. BTW: The A's aren't trading Barry Zito.
July 18, 200521 yr Why do we want Bigbie? But Penn looks like a good pitcher, and he is only 20 years old. Willis, Olsen, Vargas and Penn are all under 23 I believe. Talk about a young rotation. 861449[/snapback] because bigbie has a lot of potential and he's pretty good he can be a bench player he's batting .280 that's very good for a bench player. i don't think penn is ready to be in the majors and i definetly don't like him as much as arroyo but i like the package deal from the orioles better TWO very good bullpen arms, a platoon player with encarnacion or maybe a starter, and a great prospect who could be turned around and dealt to the A's for Barry Zito! 861604[/snapback] :plain We don't need a bench player. Thebench players we have are rooting anyways. BTW: The A's aren't trading Barry Zito. 861610[/snapback] If we traded Lowell and got Bigbie, wouldn't Cabs step in at third and Bigbie take his place in left?
July 18, 200521 yr Why do we want Bigbie? But Penn looks like a good pitcher, and he is only 20 years old. Willis, Olsen, Vargas and Penn are all under 23 I believe. Talk about a young rotation. 861449[/snapback] because bigbie has a lot of potential and he's pretty good he can be a bench player he's batting .280 that's very good for a bench player. i don't think penn is ready to be in the majors and i definetly don't like him as much as arroyo but i like the package deal from the orioles better TWO very good bullpen arms, a platoon player with encarnacion or maybe a starter, and a great prospect who could be turned around and dealt to the A's for Barry Zito! 861604[/snapback] :plain We don't need a bench player. Thebench players we have are rooting anyways. BTW: The A's aren't trading Barry Zito. 861610[/snapback] If we traded Lowell and got Bigbie, wouldn't Cabs step in at third and Bigbie take his place in left? 861621[/snapback] Jeff Conine?
July 18, 200521 yr Why do we want Bigbie? But Penn looks like a good pitcher, and he is only 20 years old. Willis, Olsen, Vargas and Penn are all under 23 I believe. Talk about a young rotation. 861449[/snapback] because bigbie has a lot of potential and he's pretty good he can be a bench player he's batting .280 that's very good for a bench player. i don't think penn is ready to be in the majors and i definetly don't like him as much as arroyo but i like the package deal from the orioles better TWO very good bullpen arms, a platoon player with encarnacion or maybe a starter, and a great prospect who could be turned around and dealt to the A's for Barry Zito! 861604[/snapback] :plain We don't need a bench player. Thebench players we have are rooting anyways. BTW: The A's aren't trading Barry Zito. 861610[/snapback] If we traded Lowell and got Bigbie, wouldn't Cabs step in at third and Bigbie take his place in left? 861621[/snapback] Jeff Conine? 861634[/snapback] Hermidiblala?
July 18, 200521 yr The Blue Jays deal looks so much better to me. 861482[/snapback] again people dont get it or cant read. AJ will not sign with the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays are not an option anymore.
July 18, 200521 yr The Blue Jays deal looks so much better to me. again people dont get it or cant read. AJ will not sign with the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays are not an option anymore.Link? Right now I would put the order of the deals at Chicago 1, Toronto very close 2, Boston way back at 3, skip a couple spaces, and then Baltimore at 7. I'd prefer Nigel Wilson playing LF and Jack Armstrong pitching then this garbage. That's my opinion anyways.
July 18, 200521 yr You guys are forgeting the most important thing. "Admin Bigbie" is easily the most annoying name in baseball. I couldn't stand hearing that name every day. What the hell is a "bigbie?" 861551[/snapback] its the dudes last name. give it a rest already.
July 18, 200521 yr Why do we want Bigbie? But Penn looks like a good pitcher, and he is only 20 years old. Willis, Olsen, Vargas and Penn are all under 23 I believe. Talk about a young rotation. 861449[/snapback] because bigbie has a lot of potential and he's pretty good he can be a bench player he's batting .280 that's very good for a bench player. i don't think penn is ready to be in the majors and i definetly don't like him as much as arroyo but i like the package deal from the orioles better TWO very good bullpen arms, a platoon player with encarnacion or maybe a starter, and a great prospect who could be turned around and dealt to the A's for Barry Zito! 861604[/snapback] :plain We don't need a bench player. Thebench players we have are rooting anyways. BTW: The A's aren't trading Barry Zito. 861610[/snapback] If we traded Lowell and got Bigbie, wouldn't Cabs step in at third and Bigbie take his place in left? 861621[/snapback] Jeff Conine? 861634[/snapback] I'd rather have Conine come off the bench at this stage of his career.
July 18, 200521 yr I'm probably wrong on this but I hope to God that this is just a bluff and Admin's way of putting pressure on Toronto, White Sox and Red Sox to get a deal done quicker.
July 18, 200521 yr WildMarlins2003, I am one of those "kids" that "just cant read or dont get it" that wants to keep Lowell, because I have shown his #'s all his #'s continue to increase as the season has progressed from month to month and I truly believe he will break out of his slump. He is still one of the top 3 defensive 3rd basemen in baseball as well. And if I am not mistaken, we are the same age, or you might be a tad younger, so shut the hell up Junior.
July 18, 200521 yr My name's Joe Jackson, and I write about the Orioles at http://www.all-baseball.com/chop/. I understand that you all are sweating this trade, probably as much as I am (for different reason... I'm excited about this trade). I'm going to try to help put some of your minds at ease with what the Marlins would be receiving in return. Hayden Penn is a good prospect. Is he the savior, like a lot of O's homers will have you believe? Not yet. But he does have that ceiling. The one thing he showed in his call-up to Baltimore back in May was incredible poise. The numbers he posted may not look flattering, but he easily would've had 4 wins had the defense not crumbled behind him and the bullpen not choked away leads. Officials with the Orioles couldn't believe how well Penn handled himself for being just 20. He features a 94 MPH fastball with movement, a developing change-up, and a sharp curve that he has to learn to throw over for strikes. Is he a better prospect than Daniel Cabrera? No... but he's the best Minor League prospect that the Orioles have. He has a higher ceiling than Kelly Shoppach and Sean Burroughs, at least. Jorge Julio is a tough call. He reminds a lot of Orioles fans of Armando Benitez... a guy who has electric stuff, but gets too caught up in the moment. He allows game pressure to get to him from time to time, and he also becomes enamored with lighting up the radar gun. Benitez needed a scenery change, and a lot of scouts think that Julio needs one as well. The Orioles don't need him in the pen anymore because they've received a lot of production out of a young righty named Chris Ray. Penn may be the center of the deal, but Julio's a good piece. The jury's completely out on Admin Bigbie and what he can do. He's a former first round draft pick, and all Orioles fans have been hearing for years is how high his potential stretches. We haven't seen it, just the occasional flash. He does have a little power and above-average speed, and his defense is much better than average in left. He has problems hitting left-handers, and the Orioles have been trying to keep him away from lefties all season. He will hit for average if he puts it all together, and he'll more than likely hit for doubles. In a pitcher's park like Dolphins Stadium, I wouldn't personally expect 20 homers from him, but hitting .305 with 30 doubles isn't out of the realm of possibility for him. And then there's Steve Kline. If you guys want him, take him. Please. I know he's been able to get it done in the NL, but he's lost velocity and continues to try to pound the ball in like he hasn't. His job is to get lefties out, but lefties are hitting above .300 against him this season. He's becoming a clubhouse distraction, and his comments about regretting signing in Baltimore struck a lot of fans and fellow players wrong. Kline's in there as added salary dump since the Orioles are going to be taking on Lowell. It's not an awful deal for the Marlins, as I see it, though it's not better than the one the White Sox have (if that's an accurate rumor). The problem I see with the White Sox is that I wonder how willing they'll be to disrupt team chemistry at this point in the season (and I personally think that their issues, if any, are no where near their rotation). I'm kinda surprised that Chicago's not after a bat, and I haven't heard whether or not they'd take Lowell, but that seems to be a sticking point for Florida right now. The Orioles are willing, and that's why they're at the fore-front. If no one else decides to eat his contract, then I'm thinking that the deal will go to the Orioles. It's not a better package than Chicago's, but it's a heck of a lot better than the Red Sox-Padres-Marlins 3-way trade I heard about last night. At least the Marlins will fill what I've heard that their needs are from the get-go (Starter, solid reliever, young lefty bat). To that end, the Orioles deal makes more sense. Not trying to be a homer here. Just trying to shed some light on these players from someone that sits and watches them on a daily basis.
July 18, 200521 yr WildMarlins2003, I am one of those "kids" that "just cant read or dont get it" that wants to keep Lowell, because I have shown his #'s all his #'s continue to increase as the season has progressed from month to month and I truly believe he will break out of his slump. He is still one of the top 3 defensive 3rd basemen in baseball as well. And if I am not mistaken, we are the same age, or you might be a tad younger, so shut the hell up Junior. 861770[/snapback] I agree with you Todd. I tend to believe Lowell's problems are more mental than physical. I also believe a new hitting coach will do him wonders. I can just see the situation where he gets traded and soon gets back to his old form. I could be wrong, but only time will tell.
July 18, 200521 yr My name's Joe Jackson, and I write about the Orioles at http://www.all-baseball.com/chop/. I understand that you all are sweating this trade, probably as much as I am (for different reason... I'm excited about this trade). I'm going to try to help put some of your minds at ease with what the Marlins would be receiving in return. Hayden Penn is a good prospect. Is he the savior, like a lot of O's homers will have you believe? Not yet. But he does have that ceiling. The one thing he showed in his call-up to Baltimore back in May was incredible poise. The numbers he posted may not look flattering, but he easily would've had 4 wins had the defense not crumbled behind him and the bullpen not choked away leads. Officials with the Orioles couldn't believe how well Penn handled himself for being just 20. He features a 94 MPH fastball with movement, a developing change-up, and a sharp curve that he has to learn to throw over for strikes. Is he a better prospect than Daniel Cabrera? No... but he's the best Minor League prospect that the Orioles have. He has a higher ceiling than Kelly Shoppach and Sean Burroughs, at least. Jorge Julio is a tough call. He reminds a lot of Orioles fans of Armando Benitez... a guy who has electric stuff, but gets too caught up in the moment. He allows game pressure to get to him from time to time, and he also becomes enamored with lighting up the radar gun. Benitez needed a scenery change, and a lot of scouts think that Julio needs one as well. The Orioles don't need him in the pen anymore because they've received a lot of production out of a young righty named Chris Ray. Penn may be the center of the deal, but Julio's a good piece. The jury's completely out on Admin Bigbie and what he can do. He's a former first round draft pick, and all Orioles fans have been hearing for years is how high his potential stretches. We haven't seen it, just the occasional flash. He does have a little power and above-average speed, and his defense is much better than average in left. He has problems hitting left-handers, and the Orioles have been trying to keep him away from lefties all season. He will hit for average if he puts it all together, and he'll more than likely hit for doubles. In a pitcher's park like Dolphins Stadium, I wouldn't personally expect 20 homers from him, but hitting .305 with 30 doubles isn't out of the realm of possibility for him. And then there's Steve Kline. If you guys want him, take him. Please. I know he's been able to get it done in the NL, but he's lost velocity and continues to try to pound the ball in like he hasn't. His job is to get lefties out, but lefties are hitting above .300 against him this season. He's becoming a clubhouse distraction, and his comments about regretting signing in Baltimore struck a lot of fans and fellow players wrong. Kline's in there as added salary dump since the Orioles are going to be taking on Lowell. It's not an awful deal for the Marlins, as I see it, though it's not better than the one the White Sox have (if that's an accurate rumor). The problem I see with the White Sox is that I wonder how willing they'll be to disrupt team chemistry at this point in the season (and I personally think that their issues, if any, are no where near their rotation). I'm kinda surprised that Chicago's not after a bat, and I haven't heard whether or not they'd take Lowell, but that seems to be a sticking point for Florida right now. The Orioles are willing, and that's why they're at the fore-front. If no one else decides to eat his contract, then I'm thinking that the deal will go to the Orioles. It's not a better package than Chicago's, but it's a heck of a lot better than the Red Sox-Padres-Marlins 3-way trade I heard about last night. At least the Marlins will fill what I've heard that their needs are from the get-go (Starter, solid reliever, young lefty bat). To that end, the Orioles deal makes more sense. Not trying to be a homer here. Just trying to shed some light on these players from someone that sits and watches them on a daily basis. 861777[/snapback] great post and great info, welcome to the board. i agree, the white sox deal is better. I don't like the deal with the orioles very much, penn may not be ready to help for a couple years and i dont think bigbie will be a staple in the outfield. now if penn is traded to someone else for a bonafied starting pitcher, then the deal might not be so bad
July 18, 200521 yr Bigbie cant hit lefties? As an Orioles fan you should know that he is batting over .300 vs. lefties.
July 18, 200521 yr Thanks for the warm welcome. Other teams are pretty high on Hayden Penn, as are the Orioles. Penn was a player that was absolutely off-limits to the Orioles over the winter. The A's wanted him in a proposed deal for Tim Hudson, and later in a proposed deal for Barry Zito. Both times the Orioles hesitated on pulling the trigger. That's how much they like Penn, and Beane absolutely salivated over him. I imagine that if Barry Zito were even close to available, the Orioles and A's would've had some discussion over Penn. The only reason the Orioles have taken him off of "untouchable" status is A) They love what they see out of Daniel Cabrera, B) Are in a serious playoff race, C) Absolutely need a starting pitcher, and D) Know that either the Yankees or Red Sox, or both, are going to make a significant move to improve their roster. Penn won't be ready for a few years (3-4), and I have absolutely no knowledge of how he would rate in the Marlins system, but I do know that other teams have had interest in him in the past. It's entirely possible that the Marlins try to turn pieces of this deal (I'd imagine Penn and possibly Encarnacion or Bigbie) into something else, but that's complete speculation on my part. It makes sense for the Marlins, but they're not exactly getting fleeced in this. As high as I am on Burnett, there's no guarantee that he pitches well in a smallish Oriole Park. He could turn out to be a guy that the Orioles regret (though I think working with Ray Miller will turn him into an electric pitcher). Mike Lowell's a bigger risk, but he's a guy you love to have in your clubhouse. And he's not Sammy Sosa's twin. I don't think Lowell's mechanics are right right now. Sosa's problem is that he physically can't catch up to inside heat anymore, and he refuses to adjust his swing. I doubt Lowell would have the same gripe. He'll get it back on track, though I'm not sure if he'll be the same 25-30 homer, 100-110 RBI kind of guy again. There are rumors that the Orioles are considering moving Mora, who's played at a near gold-glove level at third, back to the outfield to slot Lowell in at third. Not sure why they would do that when there's a perfectly open corner infield spot (first) for the O's. Move Lowell to first and Gibbons to left. No problem.
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