July 22, 200521 yr Is it really that hard to understand? Are you really so attached to A.J. and Mikey that you'll ignore it? How were were buyers last year when we gave up a good starter and productive firstbaseman for a starting catcher, reliever and defensive specialist; and now this year we're sellers because we're trading a good starter for a platoon player and relievers? A.J.'s trade value has surpassed his on-field value. Coupled with slim possibility he'll resign with us, Loria/Beinfest are trying to cash in on that and add pieces to win this year.
July 22, 200521 yr I couldn't agree more. I suspect their (the FO) problem is they can't make move two and three until they make move one, and so in the short term they're stymied. And the fact that they want to move Lowell, which I've seen from day one as a roster decision (Cabrera to third, opening up a roster and onfield spot) and not primarily a financial one, is to make room for a bonafide slugging outfielder with a lengthy contract (not necessarily big $$$).
July 22, 200521 yr The best way for the team to be buyers is to trade AJ for what they need. Otherwise, the Marlins won't do anything that's really significant and might as well be standing pat.
July 22, 200521 yr I agree completely. When you have a slim to zero chance of resigning A.J. and trading Lowell can give you the flexibility to improve your team down the road and in the very near future, the FO is giving this team the best possible chance at competing. Especially if they can get the right players to trade away right away.
July 22, 200521 yr Is it really that hard to understand? Are you really so attached to A.J. and Mikey that you'll ignore it? How were were buyers last year when we gave up a good starter and productive firstbaseman for a starting catcher, reliever and defensive specialist; and now this year we're sellers because we're trading a good starter for a platoon player and relievers? A.J.'s trade value has surpassed his on-field value. Coupled with slim possibility he'll resign with us, Loria/Beinfest are trying to cash in on that and add pieces to win this year. 869793[/snapback] The only thing i have to say is this: You're calling the trade of Hee Sop Choi as something that could be percieved as selling. You're laling him a "productive first baseban"? granted, he could be much worse but talk about a guy that will never live up to potential. We needed to unload this guy and get a REAL left handed batter w/ some power (thank you Delgado). I was elated when they got rid of Choi. That bum. Penny was tough to see go but you know how it goes. Other than that I agree w/ your post. Except that my love for Lowell will not let me accept the fact of trading him. But you cant ignore the economics of the game and the trade would help this financialy hog-tied club.
July 22, 200521 yr How were were buyers last year when we gave up a good starter and productive firstbaseman for a starting catcher, reliever and defensive specialist; and now this year we're sellers because we're trading a good starter for a platoon player and relievers? 869793[/snapback] Defensive specialist? Enc? Ha! :lol
July 22, 200521 yr Author Nonetheless, Encarnacion, LoDuca and Mota weren't acquired for the future. Neither were Penny and Choi given up because we were giving up on the 2004 season. Thanks though.
July 22, 200521 yr How were were buyers last year when we gave up a good starter and productive firstbaseman for a starting catcher, reliever and defensive specialist; and now this year we're sellers because we're trading a good starter for a platoon player and relievers? 869793[/snapback] Defensive specialist? Enc? Ha! :lol 869858[/snapback] encarnacion only had 1 or none errors in '03, not sure about '04, and '05 i certainly agree with you. but of course his bat is really helping
July 22, 200521 yr If we dont get a legit starting pitcher yet trade one away, we are NOT buyers, Im sorry. Yes, getting rid of Lowell doesnt mean we are sellers, but getting rid of AJ while just think Valdez can take his spot.....no way man
July 22, 200521 yr Author Fine, but it doesn't mean we are sellers either. All published reports suggest that the Marlins are seeking a reliever and either a starting pitcher or a replacement for Encarnacion so he can be traded for a starting pitcher.
July 22, 200521 yr We're not really either one. Sellers are like KC dumping salary for prospects every year. Buyers are like the Yankees taking on salary to upgrade a position. We're more retooling, getting better overall trading off between strengths and weaknesses without taking on more payroll.
July 22, 200521 yr Is it really that hard to understand? Are you really so attached to A.J. and Mikey that you'll ignore it? How were were buyers last year when we gave up a good starter and productive firstbaseman for a starting catcher, reliever and defensive specialist; and now this year we're sellers because we're trading a good starter for a platoon player and relievers? A.J.'s trade value has surpassed his on-field value. Coupled with slim possibility he'll resign with us, Loria/Beinfest are trying to cash in on that and add pieces to win this year. 869793[/snapback] I don't think ANYONE here is attached to AJ and most people here want him dealt for the best possible package, however Lowell is a different story.
July 22, 200521 yr Buyers are working on more then one deal at a time....Who else are they going after???? All this time spent on the O's deal is taking away time they could actually be BUYING other players that they might need.
July 22, 200521 yr Author Buyers are working on more then one deal at a time....Who else are they going after???? All this time spent on the O's deal is taking away time they could actually be BUYING other players that they might need. 870189[/snapback] I believe the idea was to platoon Bigbie with Conine and trade Encarnacion (plus prospects?) for a pitcher.
July 22, 200521 yr Buyers are working on more then one deal at a time....Who else are they going after???? All this time spent on the O's deal is taking away time they could actually be BUYING other players that they might need. 870189[/snapback] I believe the idea was to platoon Bigbie with Conine and trade Encarnacion (plus prospects?) for a pitcher. 870194[/snapback] well you can't make a 2nd deal if you don't make the 1st.....and if the 1st isn't good for the team then the 2nd can't possibly make things any better.
July 22, 200521 yr Buyers are working on more then one deal at a time....Who else are they going after???? All this time spent on the O's deal is taking away time they could actually be BUYING other players that they might need. 870189[/snapback] I'm sure that Admin Beinfest is doing A LOT of homework, he is definatly going to get something work out, besides we still have a whole week yet, and some of the best deals get done at the last minute. I wouldn't be suprised if we see some additional teams jump in the bidding if it ends up being just for AJ.
July 23, 200521 yr Is it really that hard to understand? Are you really so attached to A.J. and Mikey that you'll ignore it? How were were buyers last year when we gave up a good starter and productive firstbaseman for a starting catcher, reliever and defensive specialist; and now this year we're sellers because we're trading a good starter for a platoon player and relievers? A.J.'s trade value has surpassed his on-field value. Coupled with slim possibility he'll resign with us, Loria/Beinfest are trying to cash in on that and add pieces to win this year. 869793[/snapback] I don't think ANYONE here is attached to AJ and most people here want him dealt for the best possible package, however Lowell is a different story. 870174[/snapback] I am attached to AJ but that is mainly because every offer I have read so far scares the heck out of me. I don't think the O's have much to offer us that will make me feel that the trade is worth it.
July 23, 200521 yr Rferry, you'll have to excuse us poor unknowing fools. What may be obvious to you is apparently missed by many of us. Personally, I'm not attached to any Marlin. I'm a fan of the Marlins. If you can believe the rumors about Lowell, his trade value is negative right now. So I say keep him. It's unlikely he'll get worse. It's likely he'll get better, and his trade value will grow substantially. We can trade him in the off season if we so choose. On AJ, any way you spin it, a team that believes it can contend THIS YEAR does not trade away AJ. Teams that believe they can contend, like the Orioles, look to acquire players like AJ, not trade them. As I've said before, I think the trade rumors surrounding AJ are just that, rumors. I see a trade of another sort. Like us giving up one of our pitching prospects for a top reliever/closer. That's the kind of trade that buyers make. That's the kind of trade that teams who believe they can contend THIS YEAR make. I do agree with you on one thing. I agree that we are buyers.
July 23, 200521 yr Is it really that hard to understand? Are you really so attached to A.J. and Mikey that you'll ignore it? How were were buyers last year when we gave up a good starter and productive firstbaseman for a starting catcher, reliever and defensive specialist; and now this year we're sellers because we're trading a good starter for a platoon player and relievers? A.J.'s trade value has surpassed his on-field value. Coupled with slim possibility he'll resign with us, Loria/Beinfest are trying to cash in on that and add pieces to win this year. 869793[/snapback] I don't think ANYONE here is attached to AJ and most people here want him dealt for the best possible package, however Lowell is a different story. 870174[/snapback] I'm pretty attached to AJ... but I realize it is most likely in our best efforts to trade him
July 23, 200521 yr Author On AJ, any way you spin it, a team that believes it can contend THIS YEAR does not trade away AJ. Teams that believe they can contend, like the Orioles, look to acquire players like AJ, not trade them. As I've said before, I think the trade rumors surrounding AJ are just that, rumors. I see a trade of another sort. Like us giving up one of our pitching prospects for a top reliever/closer. That's the kind of trade that buyers make. That's the kind of trade that teams who believe they can contend THIS YEAR make. I do agree with you on one thing. I agree that we are buyers. 870520[/snapback] Not to stick up for Beinfest in any way, but there are ways to win a pennant without A.J. Burnett.
July 23, 200521 yr Has to agree with Rferry here again. If you're the GM, knowing what you know, your job is to think outside the box and develop scenarios where you win without AJ, knowing he'll be a free agent at the end of this season. That fact that none of us here are doing that which is not a shot at anyone or anyone's POV, but because we don't know from an insider's perspective who is and isn't available or at what price. All we have to go by is what we're fed by the media, and if their coverage of the Marlins/Orioles trade(s) are any indication, they have been wrong at almost every turn. In the end I believe we will be a better team after the deadline. How Admin Beinfest does that, I have no idea and I don't pretend to.
July 23, 200521 yr Is it really that hard to understand? Are you really so attached to A.J. and Mikey that you'll ignore it? How were were buyers last year when we gave up a good starter and productive firstbaseman for a starting catcher, reliever and defensive specialist; and now this year we're sellers because we're trading a good starter for a platoon player and relievers? A.J.'s trade value has surpassed his on-field value. Coupled with slim possibility he'll resign with us, Loria/Beinfest are trying to cash in on that and add pieces to win this year. 869793[/snapback] The only thing i have to say is this: You're calling the trade of Hee Sop Choi as something that could be percieved as selling. You're laling him a "productive first baseban"? granted, he could be much worse but talk about a guy that will never live up to potential. We needed to unload this guy and get a REAL left handed batter w/ some power (thank you Delgado). I was elated when they got rid of Choi. That bum. Penny was tough to see go but you know how it goes. Other than that I agree w/ your post. Except that my love for Lowell will not let me accept the fact of trading him. But you cant ignore the economics of the game and the trade would help this financialy hog-tied club. 869833[/snapback] Why so much hate for Choi? Calling him a bum? you have no class :thumbdown
July 23, 200521 yr The problem this season is that more teams are in better financial shape than ever before. They've been learning from the A's and Twins about how to be responsible and get production for less cash. Couple that with how many teams are alive in the playoff race, and you don't have a lot of pure sellers. It's not just us; no one is making big blockbuster trades. It's a buyer's market this year, and that means we probably won't find a trade offer that will make us any better than we are.
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