September 5, 200521 yr I don't I advocate that FEMA did a good job, I advocate that the State and Local Governments have dealt a damaging blow to the locals by not using resources before the storm from planners in the previous years who called for proper evacuations to the 100+ Orleans Parish School Buses that stayed parked in a lot while the poor, elderly, and ill needed transport to safety. What about telling people to go to the Superdome and Convention Center (Nagin mentioned it several times) and not having proper food, water, blankets, generators, or police. Louisiana is in this mess because Louisiana did not plan properly. Mississippi had a plan and executed. Alabama and Florida have had their plans tested over and over the past 2 years and the execution has been excellent. First mistake was Louisiana authorities claiming to be experienced in Hurricanes when they hadn't had one in East Louisiana since Betsy in 1965. Blanco is a first term governor, Nagin a mayor under fire, and the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security an un-tested planner and executor.
September 5, 200521 yr Who would pay to see Mrs. Barbara Bush face off against Michael Moore in a bout? *raises hand*
September 5, 200521 yr Here come the conservatives to call him fat and a loser without dealing with the letter itself? :notworthy 930611[/snapback] Moore doesn't have an agenda against Bush, and no mention of local officials. Bush is to blame 100% :plain 930726[/snapback] haha what a fat loser.....It isn't Bush's job. The mayor decided to NOT call in the National Guard....real smart choice. 80% of the people evacuated in a huge city which is good....the other 20% was screwed (they should have listened because I believe 10% could have left). Its called natural disaster for a reason...its mother nature and no matter what you do only about 80% of people will listen....I bet Michael Moore is busy eating McDonald's right now. Oh well....he's in the minority
September 5, 200521 yr Anyone (like President Bush) who believes that FEMA has done acceptable work is delusional. All you need to do is check this blog for a list of links to stories highlighting FEMA's incompetence (for example, turning away WAL-MART trucks with water and food, firefighters being turned away, NORTHCOM being ready but never being asked for help, etc.). 931587[/snapback] :lol :lol :lol President Bush himself has said several times to TV cameras that FEMA's response after the storm was poor. :lol :lol :lol
September 5, 200521 yr Chronology of Bush's FEMA Failure By Henry Breitrose, Stanford 1/9/05 Sep 3, 2005, 07:03 Email this article Printer friendly page January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management. April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level." 2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country." December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy, Michael Brown, who, like Allbaugh, has no previous experience in disaster management. March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism. 2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery. Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it." June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay." June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes. August 2005: While New Orleans is undergoing a slow motion catastrophe, Bush mugs for the cameras, cuts a cake for John McCain, plays the guitar for Mark Wills, delivers an address about V-J day, and continues with his vacation. When he finally gets around to acknowledging the scope of the unfolding disaster, he delivers only a photo op on Air Force One and a flat, defensive, laundry list speech in the Rose Garden. A crony with no relevant experience was installed as head of FEMA. Mitigation budgets for New Orleans were slashed even though it was known to be one of the top three risks in the country. FEMA was deliberately downsized as part of the Bush administration's conservative agenda to reduce the role of government. After DHS was created, FEMA's preparation and planning functions were taken away. Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a hurricane the size of Katrina would hit this year, but the slow federal response when it did happen was no accident. It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican policy and budget choices that favor ideology and partisan loyalty at the expense of operational competence. It's the Bush administration in a nutshell.
September 5, 200521 yr The entire article is a distortion of the facts. The guy lost all credibitility with me after the first paragraph. Trying to put all the blame on Bush is nothing more than a bunch of political BS.
September 5, 200521 yr The entire article is a distortion of the facts. The guy lost all credibitility with me after the first paragraph. Trying to put all the blame on Bush is nothing more than a bunch of political BS. 931647[/snapback] Exactly...this fat ass doesnt like facts. It is the MAYORS job to call in the national guard and he DIDN'T before the storm hit.
September 5, 200521 yr Ok. The Lousiana leadership is full of stupidity. But its Lousiana so there isnt really any surprise there. There hasnt been anyone of any real ingelligence come out of there and into a major political position in I forget how long. To not even have a real plan when people in the private sector have said that it will happen there and when it does the city will be under water is just stupid. I love their constant reasoning, it will happen eventually but it wont happen today. God these people are stupid, and I guess its not really any shock that the citizens would have the same mentality, they did put those stupid idiots in positions of power. Did FEMA screw up? Yes. Who's fault is that? Bush. This isnt actually FEMA's job anymore, this is supposed to be a division of the Dept of Homeland Security, but then again that entire office is the stupidest and most unneeded office ever created in this nation. So its not really shocking that FEMA didnt know what to do, Bush has basically taken all the good that FEMA did under Clinton and destroyed it. Kinda like he has done with the EPA. Was Moore correct here? Some parts yes, others no. Why were there National Guardsmen ready in Mississippi and not Louisiana? Well thats becuase of the inept leadership in that joint. Should Bush have reacted sooner? Probably and we can go off on his constant vacations to Texas some other time. Clinton himself said it real well today, there will be a time and place to analyze this...now isnt the time, there are still people to save, although most at this point in NOLA are just morons who refuse to be saved. He said that a study was done on this very scenario toward the end of his term and he doesnt know what happened to it, cause he was soon out of office. This is where Bush has had many of his failures, he fails domestically in many ways, much like his father did. This is probably his biggest downfall...being a country bumpkin can only do so much for you when it comes to relating to people.
September 5, 200521 yr It is the MAYORS job to call in the national guard and he DIDN'T before the storm hit. 931649[/snapback] Well, actually, the governor commands a given state's national guard contingent and is in charge of deploying the troops--in advance, if necessary. The governor is also the one who requests outside assistance, again if needed. But yes, local leaders (or whatever state/local command structure is in place) let the governor know if/when they need guard troops. When did that happen? I don't think any of us have answers yet. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that there was some massive incompetence at every level of government--federal, state, and local.
September 5, 200521 yr It is the MAYORS job to call in the national guard and he DIDN'T before the storm hit. 931649[/snapback] Well, actually, the governor commands a given state's national guard contingent and is in charge of deploying the troops--in advance, if needed. The governor is also the one who requests outside assistance, again if needed. But yes, local leaders (or whatever state/local command structure is in place) let the governor know if/when they need guard troops. When did that happen? I don't think any of us have answers yet. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that there was some massive incompetence at every level of government--federal, state, and local. 931668[/snapback] Bingo
September 6, 200521 yr I bet Michael Moore is busy eating McDonald's right now. 931638[/snapback] Wow, talk about maturity. I need to start ending my arguements the masterful way, you do your's. "Well, you're fat so shut the f*** up"
September 6, 200521 yr It is the MAYORS job to call in the national guard and he DIDN'T before the storm hit. 931649[/snapback] Well, actually, the governor commands a given state's national guard contingent and is in charge of deploying the troops--in advance, if necessary. The governor is also the one who requests outside assistance, again if needed. But yes, local leaders (or whatever state/local command structure is in place) let the governor know if/when they need guard troops. When did that happen? I don't think any of us have answers yet. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that there was some massive incompetence at every level of government--federal, state, and local. 931668[/snapback] link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer Sat Sep 3, 6:38 PM ET WASHINGTON - Another 10,000 National Guard troops are being sent to the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast, raising their number to about 40,000, but questions linger about the speed with which troops were deployed. ADVERTISEMENT Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck ? a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress. New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday. California troops just began arriving in Louisiana on Friday, three days after flood waters devastated New Orleans and chaos broke out. In fact, when New Orleans' levees gave way to deadly flooding on Tuesday, Louisiana's National Guard had received help from troops in only three other states: Ohio, which had nine people in Louisiana then; Oklahoma, 89; and Texas, 625, figures provided by the National Guard show.
September 6, 200521 yr Yes, I've read your article several times now. Feel free to read up on how this works if curiosity ever strikes you.
September 6, 200521 yr Michael Moore is a fat idiot: After the storm reached the Gulf of Mexico, it was predicted to hed up the coastline of Florida. After it stayed the coarse it was heading straight in the Gulf and even moved south for a period of time. It shifting towards New Orleans was a suprise. Not one meteorologist could predicted this. They did a big thing on CNN, watched it with my own eyes. So Moore needs to STFU, now and fast. And while he is berating congressmen for not sending their sons to fight in the War on Terror, why dont he go over there? Oh thats right, one MRE a day just aint enough(we were lucky to get one every 4 or 5 days for about 2 months). To get Moore to Iraq youd have to tape a philly cheese stake to a blackhawk helecopter and hover over his house so he gets the scent, and then just take off....he will find the sandwich.
September 6, 200521 yr Michael Moore is a fat idiot: After the storm reached the Gulf of Mexico, it was predicted to hed up the coastline of Florida. After it stayed the coarse it was heading straight in the Gulf and even moved south for a period of time. It shifting towards New Orleans was a suprise. Not one meteorologist could predicted this. They did a big thing on CNN, watched it with my own eyes. So Moore needs to STFU, now and fast. And while he is berating congressmen for not sending their sons to fight in the War on Terror, why dont he go over there? Oh thats right, one MRE a day just aint enough(we were lucky to get one every 4 or 5 days for about 2 months). To get Moore to Iraq youd have to tape a philly cheese stake to a blackhawk helecopter and hover over his house so he gets the scent, and then just take off....he will find the sandwich. 931971[/snapback] Well, he's against the war and us fighting it. So, no, sending Moore "over there" doesn't help. I think he was mainly doing the whole congressional sons and daughters campaign to prove there's a disparity and that the rich don't join the military and so they can ask soldiers to go fight easier with no personal worry as to loss. But, you know, maybe you missed that part of the movie. I don't agree with the guy on a lot of things, but get your facts straight.
September 6, 200521 yr Michael Moore is a fat idiot: After the storm reached the Gulf of Mexico, it was predicted to hed up the coastline of Florida. After it stayed the coarse it was heading straight in the Gulf and even moved south for a period of time. It shifting towards New Orleans was a suprise. Not one meteorologist could predicted this. They did a big thing on CNN, watched it with my own eyes. So Moore needs to STFU, now and fast. And while he is berating congressmen for not sending their sons to fight in the War on Terror, why dont he go over there? Oh thats right, one MRE a day just aint enough(we were lucky to get one every 4 or 5 days for about 2 months). To get Moore to Iraq youd have to tape a philly cheese stake to a blackhawk helecopter and hover over his house so he gets the scent, and then just take off....he will find the sandwich. 931971[/snapback] Well, he's against the war and us fighting it. So, no, sending Moore "over there" doesn't help. I think he was mainly doing the whole congressional sons and daughters campaign to prove there's a disparity and that the rich don't join the military and so they can ask soldiers to go fight easier with no personal worry as to loss. But, you know, maybe you missed that part of the movie. I don't agree with the guy on a lot of things, but get your facts straight. 931980[/snapback] Spike doesnt know facts, he just runs his mouth constantly. Look if you dont like Moore thats fine. But if you think he is writing all lies then you need to have your head examined.
September 6, 200521 yr Michael Moore is a fat idiot: After the storm reached the Gulf of Mexico, it was predicted to hed up the coastline of Florida.? After it stayed the coarse it was heading straight in the Gulf and even moved south for a period of time.? It shifting towards New Orleans was a suprise.? Not one meteorologist could predicted this.? They did a big thing on CNN, watched it with my own eyes.? So Moore needs to STFU, now and fast.? And while he is berating congressmen for not sending their sons to fight in the War on Terror, why dont he go over there?? Oh thats right, one MRE a day just aint enough(we were lucky to get one every 4 or 5 days for about 2 months).? To get Moore to Iraq youd have to tape a philly cheese stake to a blackhawk helecopter and hover over his house so he gets the scent, and then just take off....he will find the sandwich. 931971[/snapback] Well, he's against the war and us fighting it. So, no, sending Moore "over there" doesn't help. I think he was mainly doing the whole congressional sons and daughters campaign to prove there's a disparity and that the rich don't join the military and so they can ask soldiers to go fight easier with no personal worry as to loss. But, you know, maybe you missed that part of the movie. I don't agree with the guy on a lot of things, but get your facts straight. 931980[/snapback] Spike doesnt know facts, he just runs his mouth constantly. Look if you dont like Moore thats fine. But if you think he is writing all lies then you need to have your head examined. 931986[/snapback] If I wasn't in the military and if I hadn't served in Iraq, I'd probably agree with Moore. As someone who did, I think he is a worthless human being. And I wasnt saying he didn't say anything truthful, but the fact is the hurricane shifting towards New Orleans was a suprise and didn't give anyone time to react properly. It was supposed to move up the western Florida coastline according to CNN.
September 6, 200521 yr Michael Moore is a fat idiot: After the storm reached the Gulf of Mexico, it was predicted to hed up the coastline of Florida.? After it stayed the coarse it was heading straight in the Gulf and even moved south for a period of time.? It shifting towards New Orleans was a suprise.? Not one meteorologist could predicted this.? They did a big thing on CNN, watched it with my own eyes.? So Moore needs to STFU, now and fast.? And while he is berating congressmen for not sending their sons to fight in the War on Terror, why dont he go over there?? Oh thats right, one MRE a day just aint enough(we were lucky to get one every 4 or 5 days for about 2 months).? To get Moore to Iraq youd have to tape a philly cheese stake to a blackhawk helecopter and hover over his house so he gets the scent, and then just take off....he will find the sandwich. 931971[/snapback] Well, he's against the war and us fighting it. So, no, sending Moore "over there" doesn't help. I think he was mainly doing the whole congressional sons and daughters campaign to prove there's a disparity and that the rich don't join the military and so they can ask soldiers to go fight easier with no personal worry as to loss. But, you know, maybe you missed that part of the movie. I don't agree with the guy on a lot of things, but get your facts straight. 931980[/snapback] Spike doesnt know facts, he just runs his mouth constantly. Look if you dont like Moore thats fine. But if you think he is writing all lies then you need to have your head examined. 931986[/snapback] If I wasn't in the military and if I hadn't served in Iraq, I'd probably agree with Moore. As someone who did, I think he is a worthless human being. And I wasnt saying he didn't say anything truthful, but the fact is the hurricane shifting towards New Orleans was a suprise and didn't give anyone time to react properly. It was supposed to move up the western Florida coastline according to CNN. 932089[/snapback] look here is the bottom line. people have said this would happen to NOLA someday. NOLA is on the gulf coast in a hurricane area. they had no plan for this to happen. you can also argue that the feds had no real plan neither. call it an unexpected turn all you want but this has been a known issue for decades, they have just always been lucky. the luck bank ran out.
September 6, 200521 yr I bet Michael Moore is busy eating McDonald's right now. 931638[/snapback] Wow, talk about maturity. I need to start ending my arguements the masterful way, you do your's. "Well, you're fat so shut the f*** up" 931713[/snapback] Exactly... He's fat and should shut up. He doesnt like to face the facts and Im sure he doesn't like to face the mirror.
September 6, 200521 yr It is the MAYORS job to call in the national guard and he DIDN'T before the storm hit. 931649[/snapback] Well, actually, the governor commands a given state's national guard contingent and is in charge of deploying the troops--in advance, if necessary. The governor is also the one who requests outside assistance, again if needed. But yes, local leaders (or whatever state/local command structure is in place) let the governor know if/when they need guard troops. When did that happen? I don't think any of us have answers yet. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that there was some massive incompetence at every level of government--federal, state, and local. 931668[/snapback] I agree....every level of government is to blame. This is why it is could a Natural Disaster....things like this (tsunamis) happen
September 6, 200521 yr I bet Michael Moore is busy eating McDonald's right now. 931638[/snapback] Wow, talk about maturity. I need to start ending my arguements the masterful way, you do your's. "Well, you're fat so shut the f*** up" 931713[/snapback] Exactly... He's fat and should shut up. He doesnt like to face the facts and Im sure he doesn't like to face the mirror. 932123[/snapback] Ummm... See by just going to ad hominem arguments/hating on the dood's interests or circumstances you're not really proving your point. Why not go back and try and refute the guy's arguments or find falsity in his claims. I mean, it's weak to just attack Moore's character with no actual basis or reason for it. You're just alienating your audience anyways by calling him fat, anyways, as 127 million Americans are considered overweight which means there are a lot of overweights guys and gals reading your statement. Plus, calling the guy a name just seems like the easy way out. Anyone can do that. It's hollow of having any kind of meaning or stance against his actual arguments. Do you have Michael Moore because you disagree with his political stance or because you hate fat people? Doesn't seem that smart to counter Moore's letter with just "he's fat, why listen to him?"
September 6, 200521 yr look here is the bottom line. people have said this would happen to NOLA someday. NOLA is on the gulf coast in a hurricane area. they had no plan for this to happen. you can also argue that the feds had no real plan neither. call it an unexpected turn all you want but this has been a known issue for decades, they have just always been lucky. the luck bank ran out. 932109[/snapback] Isn't it more troubling that the federal response was so abysmal? After all, this was essentially a demonstration of their preparedness in the event of a terrorist attack on Any City, USA.
September 6, 200521 yr Exactly... He's fat and should shut up. He doesnt like to face the facts and Im sure he doesn't like to face the mirror. 932123[/snapback] I hope you say the same thing about fellow fatties, Rush, and Hannity. Otherwise that'd be pretty hipocritical of you.
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