When people talk about Dontrelle Willis they talk about his attitude and about his delivery. How many people have joked that his best pitch is his delivery? Although it is unique, if he does not dvelop a good breaking ball, he will eventually get hit harder. If he develops a breaking pitch, opponents will have to start from the beginning against him again. My worry is that if he doesn't get a second pitch, people will know him by the postseason, if we get there.

C'mon Willis!

Get a Slider!

Go Fish!

lmao... you have to be kidding me

 

he has a 2nd pitch... his change is fantastic

 

and yes, his best pitch is his delivery

agreed Ramp. you can't argue with Dwill's change. Its his location that hurts him sometimes, Not his lack of pitches.

lmao... you have to be kidding me

 

he has a 2nd pitch... his change is fantastic

 

and yes, his best pitch is his delivery

The question is, how good is his second pitch. I know he has a rather incompetent change and a sorry slider. I think a starter needs 3 pitches, unless he can throw 200mph all of the game. I guess if he has a 2nd pitch he has is delivery and two other pitches. That makes three!

But I'll stick with it: He needs another pitch! :banghead

lmao... you have to be kidding me

 

he has a 2nd pitch... his change is fantastic

 

and yes, his best pitch is his delivery

The question is, how good is his second pitch. I know he has a rather incompetent change and a sorry slider. I think a starter needs 3 pitches, unless he can throw 200mph all of the game. I guess if he has a 2nd pitch he has is delivery and two other pitches. That makes three!

But I'll stick with it: He needs another pitch! :banghead que?

Willis has a great change and a curve. But I personally noticed that his velocity on his fastball has gone down a few notches, and has hurt him in the last few outings.

 

In the beginning of the year his fastball was a constant 93 - 94 MPH. Now, the radar is saying 89 - 90 MPH.

 

Has anybody noticed this?

He has all the Pitches you are required. His fast ball 2 seam and 4 seam are very good with alot of movement. His Slider is jsut slow enouh and has enough break to get hitters of balance and he has a cutter also for righties ( which is basically his 2 Seamer). His 3rd pitch is his change up and also is very good. He knows how to use his pitches thats what makes him so affective and the pitcher he is.

should we shut up because Dontrelle is a better pitcher than we could ever hope to be? I vote yes.

No , he doesnt need a new pitch , Why do you have to make a poll for everything ? This is worst than " Go DIME "

lmao... you have to be kidding me

 

he has a 2nd pitch... his change is fantastic

 

and yes, his best pitch is his delivery

Ramp, i dont think youve ever played the game bossman..

 

his changup is not fantastic.. its pretty much borderline. He doesnt even use a change up much.. he just takes some off his fastball.. maybe like 2-3 mph .. 89-92 mph is not much of a difference that will keep hitters off balance much. He has good location when he is on though, keeping the ball down and away mostly, but he doesnt have good stuff... I know everybody is excited about Willis, but he does have flaws man... I think hes over hyped and kagging it for the most part, personally.

 

He has a sorry slider and his fastball doesn't move much. HE is VERY hittable. Its just that he has different slots from where he releases the ball and its very hard to track down and time. Thats all it is right now, hes just getting hitters off on timing and his confusing motions. Other than that, he is very hittable. Harold Reynolds I think did a perfect analysis of him after the all star break. Its like he read my mind.

 

If you remember, I've been saying this stuff since day 1. Keys and I on the other board were having this debate since Willis' debut.

 

 

He does need some other pitches if he wants so succeed long term. I think hitters are going to figure him out. I dont know when really, but they will. Look at what happened to Hideo... but Hideo had way better stuff.

should we shut up because Dontrelle is a better pitcher than we could ever hope to be? I vote yes.

No, we shouldn't shut up because Dontrelle is a better pitcher than all of us.

 

Using that logic, we should all be praising Todd Hollandsworth, because as bad as he was for the Marlins this year, he still is a better hitter than any of us.

 

We shouldn't criticize Jeff Torborg because he knows more about baseball than any of us.

 

Might as well shut down all the fan boards if we actually have to be better athletes than the players before we're allowed to post.

What FurmanGator should've said is "should we shut up because Dontrelle is a better pitcher than we ever hoped he'd be?"

 

Let's just send him down to the minors.

 

I'm sure he'll eventually use/develop more pitchers and hone it a little more. I've seen him throw the change at times and he has a slider, he just doesn't use them very often so he's obviously not very comfortable using it. That'll come with time. Keep in mind that he did not have much time in the minors to work on these other pitches. The guy's 21 years old.

 

He's struggled because he's been getting behind batters, plain and simple. That and the fact that he is NOT the second coming like some people would like to believe. No way he was going to keep up that pace.

Look at what happened to Hideo... but Hideo had way better stuff.

Hideo Nomo has had a pretty solid career. I think Willis can have that kind of career, maybe even better since he is a lefty. He's also young enough that he should improve and develop more command.

 

Is his delivery helping him? Big time. Nomo's delivery has helped him for 9 years now. Remember Sid Fernandez? He was a lefty for the Mets. He didn't throw that hard at all but he had an odd delivery where he kind of slung the ball and it seemed faster than it was so he struck out a lot of people. He stuck around for 15 years and 114 wins and was still striking people out at the end. If he had been in better shape he'd have lasted longer.

 

With the stuff Willis has, he probably won't be a consistent 15-20 game winner, Cy Young contender, ace-of-the-staff type of guy. Between his delivery, his velocity, his left-handedness, and his control, he can probably be a #2 or #3 with an ERA of about 3.50 and 12-15 wins a year. But he's so young that he can still develop another pitch, improve his command, and become a #1.

I agree that Willis needs to work on his other pitches more(change-up). Also being a lefty with no 12/6 curveball because of his delivery is a advantage to right-handed hitters no question. If you notice his Dodger start he wasn't getting the outside part of the plate which he needs to be successful. Which in turn had come in more on hitters by overthrowing the ball instead of pitching. Willis is unfinish product IMO

his changup is not fantastic.. its pretty much borderline. He doesnt even use a change up much.. he just takes some off his fastball.. maybe like 2-3 mph .. 89-92 mph is not much of a difference that will keep hitters off balance much. He has good location when he is on though, keeping the ball down and away mostly, but he doesnt have good stuff... I know everybody is excited about Willis, but he does have flaws man... I think hes over hyped and kagging it for the most part, personally.

 

He has a sorry slider and his fastball doesn't move much. HE is VERY hittable. Its just that he has different slots from where he releases the ball and its very hard to track down and time. Thats all it is right now, hes just getting hitters off on timing and his confusing motions. Other than that, he is very hittable. Harold Reynolds I think did a perfect analysis of him after the all star break. Its like he read my mind.

 

If you remember, I've been saying this stuff since day 1. Keys and I on the other board were having this debate since Willis' debut.

 

 

He does need some other pitches if he wants so succeed long term. I think hitters are going to figure him out. I dont know when really, but they will. Look at what happened to Hideo... but Hideo had way better stuff.

Thats the Key changing arm slots. The Hitter wont know whats coming. His pitches maybe sorry but they break just enough for him to ge people out.

No, we shouldn't shut up because Dontrelle is a better pitcher than all of us.

 

Using that logic, we should all be praising Todd Hollandsworth, because as bad as he was for the Marlins this year, he still is a better hitter than any of us.

 

We shouldn't criticize Jeff Torborg because he knows more about baseball than any of us.

 

Might as well shut down all the fan boards if we actually have to be better athletes than the players before we're allowed to post.

we shouldn't criticize Torborg...because the reality is: Torborg DOES know more baseball than us. Now, we should say that we are happy that McKeon is our manager instead of Torborg, because under Torborg, the team wasn't playing well.

 

And Hollandsworth is a much better player than any of us. He is having a bad year this year, but hopefully he will turn it around. Am I satisfied with his season? No. Do I go around trying to tell everyone what Hollandsworth needs to do to be a better batter? No. I also don't tell people what Willis needs to do to be a better pitcher.

No , he doesnt need a new pitch , Why do you have to make a poll for everything ? This is worst than " Go DIME "

Yes Mr. Pudge I agree with you for once.

we shouldn't criticize Torborg...because the reality is: Torborg DOES know more baseball than us. Now, we should say that we are happy that McKeon is our manager instead of Torborg, because under Torborg, the team wasn't playing well.

 

And Hollandsworth is a much better player than any of us. He is having a bad year this year, but hopefully he will turn it around. Am I satisfied with his season? No. Do I go around trying to tell everyone what Hollandsworth needs to do to be a better batter? No. I also don't tell people what Willis needs to do to be a better pitcher.

I know Torborg knows more about baseball than any of us. The worst manager who ever lived (Maury Wills?) knows more about baseball than any of us. So does the worst GM.

 

So all we can do is make posts with varying degrees of happiness? "Torborg is great but McKeon is greater!!!" Sounds pretty boring to me.

 

I can't make a movie but I know when a movie sucks (in my opinion). I can't write a book but I know what's trash. I can't paint, but I have some idea what's good and what's not. But all I'm supposed to do is smile and nod because it's better than what I can do?

 

I'm not comparing these athletes and managers to me. I'm comparing them to each other. And if they come up short, you can bet I'm going to complain or throw out ideas on what would make them better, based on what I've seen other athletes/managers have done, not based on my own personal first-hand experience.

so we should start saying what pitchers need to do to be better? If you wanna say Torborg blows, go ahead. But don't tell us what Dontrelle Willis should do to be a better pitcher.

so we should start saying what pitchers need to do to be better? If you wanna say Torborg blows, go ahead. But don't tell us what Dontrelle Willis should do to be a better pitcher.

Um, why not? What are we allowed to say about him?

Hideo Nomo has had a pretty solid career. I think Willis can have that kind of career, maybe even better since he is a lefty. He's also young enough that he should improve and develop more command.

 

Is his delivery helping him? Big time. Nomo's delivery has helped him for 9 years now. Remember Sid Fernandez? He was a lefty for the Mets. He didn't throw that hard at all but he had an odd delivery where he kind of slung the ball and it seemed faster than it was so he struck out a lot of people. He stuck around for 15 years and 114 wins and was still striking people out at the end. If he had been in better shape he'd have lasted longer.

 

With the stuff Willis has, he probably won't be a consistent 15-20 game winner, Cy Young contender, ace-of-the-staff type of guy. Between his delivery, his velocity, his left-handedness, and his control, he can probably be a #2 or #3 with an ERA of about 3.50 and 12-15 wins a year. But he's so young that he can still develop another pitch, improve his command, and become a #1.

I knew somebody would bring this up.

 

Yes Hideo was fine for awhile, but did you see him when he was with milwakee and the mets?? downright horrible!!! he was struggling for a good part of his career and was almost finished!!! He was in the minors for some time as well. Only a few players can gather it up to come back again. He was lucky.

 

If Willis has to go through that after only a few years, its not good for us or him. I hope we don't sign him for a long deal, because right now we have to have him until 2008 or something like that. That is long enough. He isn't going to last forever unless he makes adjustments... if he doesn't get injured that is...

 

Thats another thing.. have you seen Willis' delievery in slow motion replays?? That elbow is getting torched each time... now way hes going to throw 200+ innings for more than 2 or 3 years.

 

I like Willis, but he has alot of problems.

 

I'm glad to see the only credible person here agree with me on Willis. Willis is not a finished product.

 

Also edcanes, if he doesn't have a curveball by now, he won't ever have one. Thats one of the first breaking pitches that pitchers learn. It must have been worse than his slider...

Also edcanes, if he doesn't have a curveball by now, he won't ever have one. Thats one of the first breaking pitches that pitchers learn. It must have been worse than his slider...

He DOES have a curveball.

 

And his slider is sick.

 

Are you insane?

Are you insane?

i can answer that for you quite accurately

 

 

yes...he is insane :plain :whistle

He DOES have a curveball.

 

And his slider is sick.

 

Are you insane?

you are ONE heck of a comedian! you should star on comedy central

 

WILLIS DOES NOT HAVE A CURVEBALL. and if he does, he aint gripping it right! because it looks like a sorrya#$ changeup to me!

 

his slider looks like a fastball man.. if even that. IT SUCKS.

 

i know you are just 14, bud damn man, common, dont try to prove me wrong when you know nothing of what you are talking about. Have you ever seen a slider? have you ever seen a CURVEBALL?? Willis does NOT have a curveball.

 

"slider is sick" man im LMAO

 

I cant believe you all... you see the guy on TV and all the hype makes you all psyched out in believing he has awesome stuff when he doesnt.

 

Im done here, too much immaturity and you all think you know alot when you dont.

 

you talk about credibility but I have yet to see something from you to be credible. seriously, that last post was the most retarded thing ive ever heard. Ask Edcanes if he has a sick slider and curveball. ask edcanes if im insane. HE IS THE "credible" one here right? I am just a voice in the wind.

 

c ya wouldnt wanna be ya

i know enough to know to know he knows more than you even at 14

 

 

so what he didnt have his stuff vs. the Pad's

 

i guess you havent seen him pitch before that cuz ur a bandwagon.

 

if you've seen his backdoor slider and his curve in a good game you wouldnt have made your stupid comments above.