October 4, 200520 yr C. Lo Duca 1B. Delgado 2B. Castillo 3B. Lowell SS. Andino/Easley LF. Cabrera CF. Pierre RF. Hermida SP. Willis, Beckett, Vargas, Johnson and Olsen. IDK how people think anyone is going to take Lowell and Pierre. I still believe in giving Lowell a shot at redeeming himself. If he stinks again we can trade him way before the deadline and that's it. But Pierre? You gotta be crazy if you trade him, that is just preposterous :chair
October 4, 200520 yr industriales campeon wrote: IDK how people think anyone is going to take Lowell and Pierre. I still believe in giving Lowell a shot at redeeming himself. If he stinks again we can trade him way before the deadline and that's it. But Pierre? You gotta be crazy if you trade him, that is just preposterous What?? How are you gonna trade Lowell after a bad half season in 2006 if you say nobody will take him now? Your comment makes no sense. Pierre is probably the worst starting CF in MLB, and you want to keep him? Do you have any facts to back up your opininon, or is it just fun to ask Loria to waste his money on an unproductive player because you "like" him? Just like your wanting to give Lowell (probably the worst starting 3B in MLB)"a shot?" Industrialescampeon, you are definitely NOT a candidate for GM.
October 4, 200520 yr I think we should try our best to keep Pierre. This was his only bad season in the big leagues... and the drop was not monumental. Sure, .276 isn't very good, but it's not like he hit .230 like Mikey. We need Pierre to get on base and steal some bases. He stole bases, but didn't get on as much as he should have. We need Lowell to hit home runs, drive in runs, and hit for a decent average. He did none of those. So, yes, Lowell's drop is definitely more worrysome than Pierre's drop. I think Juan comes back next year and hits .300.
October 4, 200520 yr Pierre is probably the worst starting CF in MLB. How do you figure that one? I can think of several who are worse than Pierre. The only knock on Pierre is that he doesn't have a strong throwing arm...other than that, he's fine. And if .276 with 57 steals as a leadoff hitter is a bad year, I don't have much problem bringing him back.
October 4, 200520 yr cf- Juan Pierre 2b Castillo 1b Delgado 3b Cabrera Rf Hermida C Lo duca LF Conine SS Nomar/Andino Agon wants to come back, he might ask for less money, but i dont think he will budge on wanting three years and i dont think the front office wants him here for three years, so i dont think he is coming back, but I do see the marlins giving a one year deal to Nomar to redeem himself then Andino to eventually replace him next year . SP willis Beckett Vargas Millwood Olsen/Johnson I think the rotation needs another vetern, not just three rookies, I watched Millwood up here in cleveland and I think he could do great in our park and he's coming off a hot year. He would be on the pricey side, but I hope the front office takes him anyway, and IMO Olsen will be our 5 th starter with Johnson waiting in the wings for a chance to start either due to Injury or Olsen/Vargas not doing well. Bench Lenny Harris Matt Trainer FA FA Easly Bullpen Villone Bump Resop FA FA/Mota Alfonseca Cl: Mota/ wagner I think Loria will go after Wagner and Want him....I'm not saying we will get him, but I got a strong feeling we will make a strong push for him
October 4, 200520 yr CF Juan Pierre 2B Luis Castillo 3B Miguel Cabrera 1B Carlos Delgado RF Jeremy Hermida C Paul LoDuca LF Chris Aguila SS Alex Gonzalez P Dontrelle Willis The FO seems hell bent on moving Lowell. I'll bet they will find a taker. (Perhaps Willingham and Olsen will sweeten the pot). If they trade Lowell I would hope they would put the $$$ into a #3 pitcher and a closer. Hermida is definitely ready to start, and so is Aguila. I don't believe the FO will be willing to give Conine another $3M and will let him go. I'm a bit up in the air about Alex, but believe it's possible the FO signs him for another 2 years. After all, that's the term he accepted last time. Andino needs more seasoning in the minors. I agree with everything except putting Olsen and Willingham with Lowell to sweeten the pot...Willingham yes, Olsen no. Despite what all the contradictory people say on here("Willingham is a 27 year old minor leaguer what team will want him" one second, "Willingham is the answer to all our problems and very valueable to our team" the next), Willy could attract offers along with Lowell from a team in need of a DH. But Olsen should stay.
October 4, 200520 yr I dont think the FO can afford Millwood he led the AL in era so someone will give him AJ money
October 4, 200520 yr CF Juan Pierre 2B Luis Castillo 3B Miguel Cabrera 1B Carlos Delgado RF Jeremy Hermida C Paul LoDuca LF Chris Aguila SS Alex Gonzalez P Dontrelle Willis The FO seems hell bent on moving Lowell. I'll bet they will find a taker. (Perhaps Willingham and Olsen will sweeten the pot). If they trade Lowell I would hope they would put the $$$ into a #3 pitcher and a closer. Hermida is definitely ready to start, and so is Aguila. I don't believe the FO will be willing to give Conine another $3M and will let him go. I'm a bit up in the air about Alex, but believe it's possible the FO signs him for another 2 years. After all, that's the term he accepted last time. Andino needs more seasoning in the minors. I agree with everything except putting Olsen and Willingham with Lowell to sweeten the pot...Willingham yes, Olsen no. Despite what all the contradictory people say on here("Willingham is a 27 year old minor leaguer what team will want him" one second, "Willingham is the answer to all our problems and very valueable to our team" the next), Willy could attract offers along with Lowell from a team in need of a DH. But Olsen should stay. Willingham has more value to the Marlins as a player than he does as a trade chip. If he hadn't gotten injured, and finished the year the way he started (hammering in the minors) then, yeah, a team would take a chance on him, but he hasn't shined at the major league level, and he is in his late 20's. I've said many times, if it means we get out completely from under Lowell's deal, a team could take their pick of one of our three rookies: Vargas, Olsen or Johnson.
October 4, 200520 yr I think Millwood is getting more money than AJ. Millwood is proven, AJ is not Don't underestimate the misguided intangiables that teams pay for: AJ's got a live arm and he throws an easy 98 mph. Milwood has the reputation of being unable to win the big-game (I mean, all I hear about is how he can't win the big one, and how he doesn't get any run support, not that he's leading the AL in ERA)...team's will look over AJ's choke this year.
October 4, 200520 yr [i've said many times, if it means we get out completely from under Lowell's deal, a team could take their pick of one of our three rookies: Vargas, Olsen or Johnson. And what kind of players can we get back in that trade? I would be willing to part with Olsen... I am not convinced he's got the body to be durable at the major league level.
October 4, 200520 yr it is only speculation on my part, but we will see soon enough I think AJ really hurt his value in September by both on the field and off-the field performance
October 4, 200520 yr [i've said many times, if it means we get out completely from under Lowell's deal, a team could take their pick of one of our three rookies: Vargas, Olsen or Johnson. And what kind of players can we get back in that trade? I would be willing to part with Olsen... I am not convinced he's got the body to be durable at the major league level. Depending on the team, we could probably swap a good player with a bad contract (maybe an overpaid starter) or, likely, we just get $18 million in payroll relief. I've said it many times, any team taking Mike Lowell's contract off our hands is doing us a huge favor, so huge that it's really incredibly unlikely to happen.
October 4, 200520 yr I think the Yankees would take all of Lowells contract if we give them jp. Or Lowell for Wright? since Yankees already have Johnson, Musina, Pavano, Chacon and Wang in rotation for next year.
October 4, 200520 yr Since payroll is going to be cut, I really think they are going to gamble with 3 rookies in the rotation instead of acquiring a SP in FA. Also, I wouldn't mind giving Moehler another shot at starting and putting Johnson in long relief. I don't see anyone picking up Mike Lowell without the Marlins eating alot of his contract. Pierre on the other hand still has alot of trade value but I would bank on him rebounding from this year and having a more typical JP year so we ought to keep him. Though if he comes out of the gate struggling I'd expect Castillo to lead off right away. I really hope Castillo gets his quads all cleaned up so he can be a basestealing threat again, and hopefully boost him past JP in the lead-off spot.
October 4, 200520 yr I think the Yankees would take all of Lowells contract if we give them jp. Or Lowell for Wright? since Yankees already have Johnson, Musina, Pavano, Chacon and Wang in rotation for next year. I don't think it's worth going that far simply because Pierre doesn't figure to make a killing in arbitration due partially to his struggles this season. Vargas, Olsen, Johnson, all three figure to be huge quesiton marks with the potential for tremendous upside or disasterous failure...at least Pierre's a proven player. I'm not opposed to dealing Pierre, but I'd much rather he be used for something better than simply getting Lowell off the books.
October 4, 200520 yr I think the Yankees would take all of Lowells contract if we give them jp. Or Lowell for Wright? since Yankees already have Johnson, Musina, Pavano, Chacon and Wang in rotation for next year. I don't think it's worth going that far simply because Pierre doesn't figure to make a killing in arbitration due partially to his struggles this season. Vargas, Olsen, Johnson, all three figure to be huge quesiton marks with the potential for tremendous upside or disasterous failure...at least Pierre's a proven player. I'm not opposed to dealing Pierre, but I'd much rather he be used for something better than simply getting Lowell off the books. Pierre can make upto 5.5 mill this year.
October 4, 200520 yr I think the Yankees would take all of Lowells contract if we give them jp. Or Lowell for Wright? since Yankees already have Johnson, Musina, Pavano, Chacon and Wang in rotation for next year. I don't think it's worth going that far simply because Pierre doesn't figure to make a killing in arbitration due partially to his struggles this season. Vargas, Olsen, Johnson, all three figure to be huge quesiton marks with the potential for tremendous upside or disasterous failure...at least Pierre's a proven player. I'm not opposed to dealing Pierre, but I'd much rather he be used for something better than simply getting Lowell off the books. Pierre can make upto 5.5 mill this year. Operative word "can."
October 4, 200520 yr SP-Scott Olsen(just a hunch, but since we start out on the road, I think they will set up the opening day rotation where Willis and Beckett start the first two games @ home) OMG! Shut up. When has this ever happened? When has the recognized ace (as of spring training) not pitched Opening Day, home or away, except in case of injury? And your point about ticket sales.. why not hold back until Game 2 or Game 3 of the first homestand to pitch Beckett and Willis. Game 1 is going to sell out no matter who pitches. Do you really think Loria, Samson, Beinfest, the new manager and whoever may be in consideration to start Opening Day are even considering Opening Day ticket sales?!? Please. My best guess at the Opening Day roster (not what I want, but expect us to end up with): C LoDuca, Willingham (superdupersub), Treanor 1B Delgado 2B Castillo 3B Cabrera, Lowell (after many failed attempts to rid us of his contract) SS Andino, D. Cruz LF Hermida, Conine CF Pierre, Aguila RF Sosa (in the JuanGone stage of his career) SP Beckett Brown Olsen Vargas Willis RP Alfonseca Bump Johnson Mota Resop Villone
October 4, 200520 yr I think the Yankees would take all of Lowells contract if we give them jp. Or Lowell for Wright? since Yankees already have Johnson, Musina, Pavano, Chacon and Wang in rotation for next year. I don't think it's worth going that far simply because Pierre doesn't figure to make a killing in arbitration due partially to his struggles this season. Vargas, Olsen, Johnson, all three figure to be huge quesiton marks with the potential for tremendous upside or disasterous failure...at least Pierre's a proven player. I'm not opposed to dealing Pierre, but I'd much rather he be used for something better than simply getting Lowell off the books. Pierre can make upto 5.5 mill this year. Operative word "can." Well it is going to go higher than it was this year.
October 4, 200520 yr Pierre's final stats: OBP.326, SLG. 354. That's PITIFUL. According to Baseball Prospectus, his fielding is just average. Apparently, his routes or jumps are terrible, so despite his speed his range isn't anything special and the weak arm allows opponents to take the extra base. Certainly he's no Jones or Edmonds. Stolen bases, as sabermetrics has proved, are overrated. His stolen base rate was OK (77%) but his efforts resulted in 17 additional outs, often killing ralies early in the season. By way of comparison, the NL playoff teams' starting CF's numbers are: 1) Atlanta: OBP .347, SLG .575 with gold glove defense 2) Cardinals: OBP .385, SLG .533 with gold glove defense; 3) Astros: OBP .325, SLG .341 with 34 stolen bases and 1st rate defense 4) Padres: OBP .356, SLG .458 The only offensive comparable is Taveras in Houston, who is a rookie and a great defensive player. Pierre is horrible offensively even compared to a journeyman like Roberts. The AL looks like this: 1) Yankees: OBP .321, SLG .367 2) White Sox: OBP .329, SLG .407 3) Angels: OBP .352, SLG .397 62 sb 4) Red Sox: OBP .366 SLF .439 18 sb, 1 cs The only comparable on offense is Bernie Williams, who is fading fast. It's sad when the best we can say for our CF is that he is average defensively, and comparable offensively only to rookies or fading veterans. And JP is in his supposed prime. No good GM would keep him as a leadoff hitter, and we can't afford him elsewhere since we don't have the other hitters to take up the slack. So, OK, he's not THE WORST, but he's at the bottom of the pack. The last 2 years he was above average, but it apears that was a fluke, as batting average spikes often are. The bottom line is that, for us, he is an impediment to success, as we have a better leadoff hitter, and we need more pop in the rest of the lineup.
October 4, 200520 yr CantCatchMe, You do realize that all those players that you compared Pierre to are sluggers, with the exception of Taveras, who Pierre has both a higher OBP, and SLG% (Pierre: .326, .354 to Taveras: .325, .341) according to the numbers you list, and this is with Taveras a right handed hitter in Houston's little-league field...not to mention, Pierre's stolen base numbers dwarf Taveras'. So next time you put Taveras on a pedistal, and call Pierre "terrible," at least check your facts. And I'm calling BS on your numbers for Anaheim, Steve Finley's OBP was not .352, it was .271 and he slugged .374, not .397, and he stole 8 bases, not 62...plus he hit .222. And since you took it upon yourself to say that Roberts is much better than Pierre, he slugged .428, not .458, and this is with him having a year that's substantially above his career averages, and I recal you using the word "fluke" when describing Pierre, and this is with him having a career average of .305 with this below average year factored in there. I mean, if hitting .320 when your career average is above .300, what's slugging .428 when you're slugging percentage is .364? Expected?
October 4, 200520 yr Since payroll is going to be cut, Link please? You really think it's going to stay at 65 million?
October 4, 200520 yr Since payroll is going to be cut, Link please? You really think it's going to stay at 65 million? Why not? Tickets are going up, the season ticketholders are locked in already so there's little doubt as to the renewal rate, and the ticket prices for season ticket holders are averaging a 25% price hike, while walk-up sales are averaging a 35% price hike, not to mention, there's a new policy of "MVP seating" for the first four price levels (batters-box, founders field, founders club, infield box) that's causing premium seating to be even higher priced. And this goes along with the high ratings, meaning more advertising dollars. Payroll may not drastically increase, but it's not going to be cut drastically either.
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