Aaron Small SUCKS!

Rich Hill is filthy

As I have posted on previous occasions a deal of Pierre, mota and a prospect for Felix pie makes sense for the fish. I do not think patterson and hill is enough for pierre.

 

Pie has a tremendous ceiling and would create a great young OF with hermedia and cabrera. It all depends on how quickly the Cubs want to win.

I've been following his "rumor" for a couple of days and it's genesis seems to be a blogger/lover of the Cubs who says the Marlins "have offered" JP for Corey Patterson and Rich Hill, but the Cubs don't want to give up RP Hill.

 

Personally it makes no sense whatsoever as Patterson is so messed up offensively he's out in the desert somewhere right now trying to find his swing. If the Marlins gave up JP for Patterson they'd be giving up probably 100+ hits a year, 50+ stolen bases and not have a defender any better than they have now. And Patterson is, I assume, arb eligible going into his sixth year (maybe fifth more or less full time), already makes almost $3 mil a year, so what's the benefit there?

 

Oh, did I mention he's a strikeout machine? Struckout 160+ times in 2004, in 600+ at bats.

 

I think it's pure fantasy and more than anything, wishful thinking on the part of Cubs fanatics. They've (the fans) wanted JP for at least a year now. And Hill, BTW, looked awful when brought up three times this season, posting 9.13 ERA.

 

It's just a rumor that goes round and round and round...

 

 

JP for corey patterson would be perfect. Dont get me wrong I love JP but if they are trying to cut some money to keep delgado then lets do it. Plus south florida has always been a place for good player to find their stroke back. Dolphin stadium is perfect for corey that is really fast and he gots the power to hit it out , something that JP doesnt have. That was the problem with the marlins last year, lots of hits(2nd mlb), but not alot of key hits. So i would give up some hits for some rbi s any day.

I would deal Pierre for Patterson and Hill personally.

 

I love Hill's stuff, I don't care what his ERA was this year, he's going to be nasty. And Patterson has all the talent in the world, he deserves a 2nd chance (meaning a change of scenery, I know he's had multiple chances with the Cubs) and it's not like we're re-signing Pierre after 06 anyway.

Dont we already have Corey Patterson...in the form of Reggie Abercrombie?

Felix Pie is Patterson.

 

 

As I said in the MLB forum (maybe it was actually Fishstripes), this isn't exactly a _terrible_ deal.

 

Dont we already have Corey Patterson...in the form of Reggie Abercrombie?

 

You spend too much time in the minor league forum. Maybe try reading the posts when you are there.

A potential 5-tool player? Patterson has never lived up to expectations. Abercrombie has never been given a chance. And will be, what, around 5 mil cheaper?

A potential 5-tool player? Patterson has never lived up to expectations. Abercrombie has never been given a chance. And will be, what, around 5 mil cheaper?

 

 

Well considering Patterson made 2.8 million last season on a 1 year contract, is arbitration elgible, and is certainly not going to get that much money again, I'd say no.

 

And do you just pull the prospects you decide to like out of thin air? You do nothing but rip Willingham but you want to give a shot to a guy who has been given up on twice, spent half of this season in A-ball (despite being 25 years old), hit .253 in AA and struck out 127 times in 476 AB? Look, I'm glad Reginald is tearing up the Arizona Fall League and everything, but he's never been above AA and his career numbers at that level are as follows:

 

207 games played

798 at bats

192 hits

.241 batting average

.279 on base percentage

.430 slugging

38 doubles

13 triples

29 home runs

31 walks

271 strike outs

39 Stolen Bases

17 Caught Stealing

 

He's been a professional since 2000 and he's never been above AA and just look at the numbers he's put up there. I don't really want to put a future OF spot in his hands because of one good month.

I would be more welcome to the idea of a JP+Lowell for Pavano +Cash+middle level prospect.

 

 

I think it would have the yanks with a CF (lead off hitter) and a 1B so giambi can DH. It gives us a solid number 3 Starter and cash to cover him. Plus someone to grow.

 

 

I have no interest at all of a JP =Patterson deal and I never would.

 

 

 

The yanks also have an interest within JP. I wonder if Boston would also they need a 3B and CF specially if Damon leaves.

 

 

Not A Lot Of Meet

November 2

New York Post (registration required): " A possibility is prying Vernon Wells away from Toronto, but it would be very difficult for the Blue Jays to make a deal that would upgrade their AL East rival in their weakest position. Florida's Juan Pierre's name will surface, too. Free-agent Orioles lefty B.J. Ryan will be recruited hard, and righties Kyle Farnsworth (Braves) and Julian Tavarez (Cardinals) will draw interest. "

To Yanks, kids are all right

 

November 2

New York Daily News: "Twins center fielder Torii Hunter seems to believe he is going to be dealt this winter - he sold his house in Minnesota - and the Yankees are interested in the acrobatic outfielder, but the price tag may be too steep. The Marlins' Juan Pierre is another name that seems to be frequently associated with the Bronx."

I would deal Pierre for Patterson and Hill personally.

 

I love Hill's stuff, I don't care what his ERA was this year, he's going to be nasty. And Patterson has all the talent in the world, he deserves a 2nd chance (meaning a change of scenery, I know he's had multiple chances with the Cubs) and it's not like we're re-signing Pierre after 06 anyway.

 

 

 

I know your point but I can't agree regarding Patterson.

 

If your objective here is to get Hill, who is still unproven at the MLB level but admittedly has put up some terrific numbers in the minors, at least strikeout-wise, and you think he can be the Marlins lefty relief guy for four or more years to come, I can see value there, BUT you don't take Patterson to get Hill, because frankly JP is worth alot more.

 

And the Marlins aren't going to get Pie either.

 

If you're Hendry, Pie is the reason you go get a Pierre who the Cubs only have to commit one year to through arbitration. He's (Pie) the guy being groomed for CF, JP is a one year insurance policy or if signed for multiple years, is tradebait in '07 after he tears up Wrigley with it's ultra slow infield and cavernous right field.

 

So unless the Cubs can fill another significant need for the Marlins to offset what is almost guaranteed to be the loss of 220+ hits and walks and 50 stolen bases, a huge hole to fill, all the downside in a deal like the Cubs blogs are fabricating belongs to the Marlins.

I understand your frustration, but I think JP would have greater success in a park like JRS/PPS/DS than one with a long infield. It isn't all about bunts.

I understand your frustration, but I think JP would have greater success in a park like JRS/PPS/DS than one with a long infield. It isn't all about bunts.

 

 

"My frustration"?

 

Perhaps you didn't see how Pierre drove them nuts at Wrigley this season with one bunt after another that just died in their long infield grass? I believe his efforts there, and the embarrassment it caused the Cubs, is why they (being the fans) want the guy so much.

 

And yes I know it's not all about bunts...as usual you missed the point entirely.

send jp lowell and olsen to the Red sox for manny and cash

Well, stop getting your panties all in a twist because the club won't cut the grass a bunch of different lengths for the benefit of just one player.

Well, stop getting your panties all in a twist because the club won't cut the grass a bunch of different lengths for the benefit of just one player.

 

 

God you're a jerk sometimes Rferry. The hate for JP is just endless.

 

Several others, besides myself, that would be people who actually go to games, have commented on the condition of the playing surface compared to 2004. For a stadium that is supposed to have the best grounds crew in the sport they did an awful job this season. And it wasn't just the area around the plate, it was the outfield as well where large burnt/worn spots were visible throughout the year.

 

The problem last season was...what grass?

There is no significant value added though. I didn't see Luiy have much problem bunting this year or any of our players complaining about giving up more infield hits than we make. The time and effort simply aren't worth it, and we certainly aren't be allowed to keep an uneven playing field during football season. Other teams may also complain to the league office if they notice one spot of the infield has taller grass than another spot a few feet away. Your wish is a little bit much and not worth pursuing. A new batting coach or having Pierre stop taking batting advice from Lenny Harris (remember that?) would probably help more than asking an already-strained grounds crew to get on their hands and knees to manicure the field for the benefit of just one player's skill set.

There is no significant value added though. I didn't see Luiy have much problem bunting this year or any of our players complaining about giving up more infield hits than we make. The time and effort simply aren't worth it, and we certainly aren't be allowed to keep an uneven playing field during football season. Other teams may also complain to the league office if they notice one spot of the infield has taller grass than another spot a few feet away. Your wish is a little bit much and not worth pursuing. A new batting coach or having Pierre stop taking batting advice from Lenny Harris (remember that?) would probably help more than asking an already-strained grounds crew to get on their hands and knees to manicure the field for the benefit of just one player's skill set.

 

 

You are so wrong.

 

Throughout the major leagues teams manicure their fields to give themselves a homefield advantage, whether it be slick or slow, slightly angling the infield lines to the fair or foul side depending whether they have players who bunt alot or not. It's been done for as long as I've been a fan of the sport and probably twice as long.

 

No one is suggesting that an uneven infield surface be created, that's purely figment of your imagination.

No, that's pretty much all you're doing. Start coming up with solutions, not excuses.

contract year +jp = 225 hits+ 60 SB + Hits and BA champ.

 

That is my solution. Keep JP and trade him halfway for some studs. His value is higher then.

No, that's pretty much all you're doing. Start coming up with solutions, not excuses.

 

 

You're impossible. You're letting your hatred of Juan Pierre guide your assinine comments like a cat chasing after a piece of yarn.

 

Ask Moneyball or PBMarlin, and I'm sure there are others, who have looked at the field from upstairs and they'll tell you the same thing, from day one the field looked and played like crap and went downhill as the season progressed. There's no excuse for dead grass in front of a major league mound for three or four months or down the foul lines. There's no excuse for a grounds crew that left gapng seams in the sod that ended Easley's season.

 

And when you have guys who can bunt, just like every other major league park that counts on those guys getting on base, you prep the field for them. Wrigley grows it long to slow down the ball so their less fleet-footed infielders could make plays that otherwise would watch wizz by them. JP just took advantage of the situation. In Boston for years they angled the baselines because Russ Nixon and Bob Tillman couldn't go out and get a bunt, and that team wasn't built for speed.

 

But the Fish are built, at least in part for speed. With Pierre and Castillo up front you have guys who you depend on to get on base. You give them all the tools you can to help them. That wasn't the case this year, not with a field that was spartan, slick and poorly maintained.

 

And the worst part is...you know it.

No, that's pretty much all you're doing. Start coming up with solutions, not excuses.

 

 

You're impossible. You're letting your hatred of Juan Pierre guide your assinine comments like a cat chasing after a piece of yarn.

 

Ask Moneyball or PBMarlin, and I'm sure there are others, who have looked at the field from upstairs and they'll tell you the same thing, from day one the field looked and played like crap and went downhill as the season progressed. There's no excuse for dead grass in front of a major league mound for three or four months or down the foul lines. There's no excuse for a grounds crew that left gapng seams in the sod that ended Easley's season.

 

And when you have guys who can bunt, just like every other major league park that counts on those guys getting on base, you prep the field for them. Wrigley grows it long to slow down the ball so their less fleet-footed infielders could make plays that otherwise would watch wizz by them. JP just took advantage of the situation. In Boston for years they angled the baselines because Russ Nixon and Bob Tillman couldn't go out and get a bunt, and team wasn't built for speed.

 

But the Fish are built, at least in part for speed. With Pierre and Castillo up front you have guys who you depend on to get on base. You give them all the tools you can to help them. That wasn't the case this year, not with a field that was spartan, slick and poorly maintained.

 

And the worst part is...you know it.

 

You don't even have to go to the upper deck to see it. You can see it on TV. Look at a pic from Opening Day and look at a pic the last week of the season. The difference is like night and day. I don't think words could describe the condition the fild was in the last 2 months.

 

JPs bunts took high bounces and didn't die. In Wrigley and other parks with higher grass JP's bunts were perfect most of the time. The broadcasters were comparing it to astro turf. That equates to something similar to bouncing a ball on asphalt. Try bouncing a ball on asphalt, and then try it on your lawn. The difference is enormous.

 

I will also say that the infield grass at DS severely hampered JP's option to bunt.

 

I will also say the grounds crew doesn't have to "get on their hands and knees" to manicure the field to JP's taste. All they need to do is pull a lever on the mower. They already tailor mounds and batter's boxes for specific players, how hard could it be to let the grass grow alittle higher?

I will also say that the infield grass at DS severely hampered JP's option to bunt.

 

I will also say the grounds crew doesn't have to "get on their hands and knees" to manicure the field to JP's taste. All they need to do is pull a lever on the mower. They already tailor mounds and batter's boxes for specific players, how hard could it be to let the grass grow alittle higher?

 

 

That is the point.

 

You don't tell Dan Marino, "hey Dan, sorry but no passing today, only running plays". You don't take away half the arsenal he has to work with. Between teams learning how to defense him better, and pitchers working him down and away, and the shift, he was already in a difficult position.

 

Now Rferry does have a point, which is that good players make adjustments during the season and to his credit JP did get on base over 220+ times last season, but by limiting his ability to bunt, his job was made even more difficult.

So you are blaming JP's off year on the grass?

 

Look I think JP will probably have a great year next year and has a lot of value around the league but that is as lame an excuse as i can remember.

So you are blaming JP's off year on the grass?

 

Look I think JP will probably have a great year next year and has a lot of value around the league but that is as lame an excuse as i can remember.

 

 

I know when a thread is lengthy we all have a habit of jumping to the end and commenting on the last few posts, and I'm the first one to say I've been guilty of that.

 

But if you read my thread starter and subsequent posts you'd know I don't think JP had "an off-year", not when he got on base 220+ times, stole 57 bases and struck out a mere 45 times. Because of something Rferry said this thread has sort of morphed into a "state of the field" discussion and how it played a part in limiting JP's options.