Don't blame Loria if Marlins leave Miami

 

The shopping frenzy that marks the day after Thanksgiving is currently prevailing in Major League Baseball.

 

There isn't a line outside of Dolphins Stadium, home (and that term must be used loosely here) of the Florida Marlins.

 

It only seems that way after the Marlins, within the span of a week, unloaded an ace starting pitcher who is only 25 and a first baseman who has averaged nearly 120 RBI the past eight seasons.

 

Christmas came early for the Boston Red Sox, who only had to yield prospects to obtain 2003 World Series MVP Josh Beckett, and the New York Mets, who only had to part with Mike Jacobs and spare parts to add Carlos Delgado to the middle of their lineup.

 

And the Marlins have only just begun gutting a team that won the World Series a little more than two years ago.

 

Need a speedy leadoff hitter? You can probably get Juan Pierre for prospects and moving boxes to be named later.

 

Need a second baseman who plays Gold Glove-caliber defense and is a .300 hitter? Luis Castillo has as much chance of opening the season in Miami as the Dolphins do of winning the Super Bowl.

 

Need a run-producing catcher who is also good in the locker room? Paul LoDuca hopefully hasn't become too attached to those teal uniforms.

 

There will be plenty of blame to go around when the Marlins, the only franchise other than the Yankees to win multiple World Championships since 1997, eventually relocate.

 

Not much of it, if any, should be placed at the feet of owner Jeffrey Loria.

 

Defending Loria in these parts is like calling for open season on manatees.

 

He is, after all, the one who moved the Marlins' spring-training home from Viera to Jupiter after 2002 for the sake of convenience (it would make for a shorter drive when he wanted to attend Grapefruit League games).

 

Yet no matter how callous he came across when he yanked the Marlins out of Brevard County, Loria did everything he could to make big-league baseball work in South Florida.

 

Unlike previous owner John Henry, who tried to secure taxpayer money for a stadium before putting a winning team on the field, Loria didn't really start pushing for a new home until after he had delivered a World Championship.

 

In addition, he pledged more than $200 million toward construction of a baseball-only stadium with a retractable roof.

 

Even while the Marlins haggled with various government entities -- most notably the state, over a $60 million sales-tax rebate that other pro franchises have been granted -- Loria remained committed to winning.

 

Last year, the Marlins had a payroll of $65 million, highest in franchise history. Florida underachieved in 2005 but led the National League East early and stayed in playoff contention until the final weeks of the season.

 

Yet, the Marlins still ranked 28th out of 30 teams in attendance with fewer than 23,000 fans per game.

 

To put that in perspective, the Marlins were outdrawn by the Pittsburgh Pirates, who finished last in the NL Central, haven't had a winning season since 1992 and play in a football-crazy region where baseball never has been fully embraced.

 

If lackluster attendance at a spacious football stadium isn't bad enough, much of the money generated by concessions and parking at Marlins games goes to Wayne Huizenga.

 

And you thought Delgado-for-Jacobs-and-prospects was the Marlins' worst deal.

 

The Marlins escape that onerous lease with Huizenga, who owns Dolphins Stadium, after the 2007 season. With no stadium deal in sight and his franchise hemorrhaging money, Loria had no choice but to cut costs and start looking at what other options are available.

 

Maybe a stadium deal will be salvaged, keeping the Marlins in South Florida.

 

At this point, that looks unlikely.

 

Loria will be cast as the villain if the Marlins do leave.

 

The truth is, no one has done more to make big-league baseball viable in South Florida.

 

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...331/1061/SPORTS

Amen. :notworthy

Samson, not Loria.

Samson, not Loria.

 

 

Don't you just LOVE David Samson :banghead

Amen. :notworthy

Loria has been the best owner that this team has ever had. Knowing full well how much money he stood to lose, he continued to try and improve this team and went after guys like Carlos Delgado when nobody thought he would.

 

 

Can't really blame the guy.

Loria has put all the money he can into the organization...

I'll blame Loria, but not nearly as much as I'll blame Samsom. It'd be ideal if I could beat over the head with a dead squirrel until he dies, but that is probably frowned upon in our society.

I'll blame Loria, but not nearly as much as I'll blame Samsom. It'd be ideal if I could beat over the head with a dead squirrel until he dies, but that is probably frowned upon in our society.

 

 

I dont see how people can blame Samson more than Loria, contrary to popular belief Loria does yay or nay every Samson idea...

I'll blame Loria, but not nearly as much as I'll blame Samsom. It'd be ideal if I could beat over the head with a dead squirrel until he dies, but that is probably frowned upon in our society.

 

 

I dont see how people can blame Samson more than Loria, contrary to popular belief Loria does yay or nay every Samson idea...

Yeah, I don't know what's with the hate of Samson. Sure, he looks like a weasel, but what has he done? I guess it's about finding a scapegoat....

I'll blame Loria, but not nearly as much as I'll blame Samsom. It'd be ideal if I could beat over the head with a dead squirrel until he dies, but that is probably frowned upon in our society.

 

 

I dont see how people can blame Samson more than Loria, contrary to popular belief Loria does yay or nay every Samson idea...

Yeah, I don't know what's with the hate of Samson. Sure, he looks like a weasel, but what has he done? I guess it's about finding a scapegoat....

Well, that would be the reason that Samson was the one giving the press conference and insisting he told Jeffrey he couldn't spend any more money. It's kind of like when people blame a player's agent for a player's decision. Unless of course Samson has more power than what the public believes which would have something to do with how much of his mother's money went into Jeffrey Loria becoming an owner.

 

That said, David Samson can be very grating on the nerves, obnoxious and full of himself. It's not difficult to see why many would dislike him.

I'll blame Loria, but not nearly as much as I'll blame Samsom. It'd be ideal if I could beat over the head with a dead squirrel until he dies, but that is probably frowned upon in our society.

 

 

I dont see how people can blame Samson more than Loria, contrary to popular belief Loria does yay or nay every Samson idea...

Yeah, I don't know what's with the hate of Samson. Sure, he looks like a weasel, but what has he done? I guess it's about finding a scapegoat....

Well, that would be the reason that Samson was the one giving the press conference and insisting he told Jeffrey he couldn't spend any more money. It's kind of like when people blame a player's agent for a player's decision. Unless of course Samson has more power than what the public believes which would have something to do with how much of his mother's money went into Jeffrey Loria becoming an owner.

 

That said, David Samson can be very grating on the nerves, obnoxious and full of himself. It's not difficult to see why many would dislike him.

But it was even before the press conference that he was getting hated on.

I'll blame Loria, but not nearly as much as I'll blame Samsom. It'd be ideal if I could beat over the head with a dead squirrel until he dies, but that is probably frowned upon in our society.

 

 

I dont see how people can blame Samson more than Loria, contrary to popular belief Loria does yay or nay every Samson idea...

Yeah, I don't know what's with the hate of Samson. Sure, he looks like a weasel, but what has he done? I guess it's about finding a scapegoat....

Well, that would be the reason that Samson was the one giving the press conference and insisting he told Jeffrey he couldn't spend any more money. It's kind of like when people blame a player's agent for a player's decision. Unless of course Samson has more power than what the public believes which would have something to do with how much of his mother's money went into Jeffrey Loria becoming an owner.

 

That said, David Samson can be very grating on the nerves, obnoxious and full of himself. It's not difficult to see why many would dislike him.

But it was even before the press conference that he was getting hated on.

Yeah, I know. I just meant that putting Samson out there to say everything no one wants to hear serves to deflect anger from Loria and allows Samson to look like the bad guy. Like I said though it's easy not to like him anyway. He always has this tone of superiority when he speaks. I'm sure a lot of people found him annoying before the press conference.

Sorry, he doesn't get a deal done he and the other parties deserve blame.

Blame the fans. All the excuses in the world can't hide the fact that the people in this forum were the only ones that showed up at games.

Loria has his reasons for wanting to move the team regardless it will be totally his fault if they do move. If not him who do we blame the other owner that moved the Marlins. The onus must be put on current ownership. He knew the situation in South Florida before he came. There is a whole lineage of people to blame but the buck stops here. Before the team moves, MLB should entertain the idea of selling the team to an ownership group commited to keeping the team IN South Florida. Loria in his time here has been good owner in terms of wanting to win, definately much better than previous owner John Henry. What Loria is doing is no different than what H Wayne Huipinga did, yet people want to defend Loria? Atleast H Wayne wasnt about to relocate the team. I blame Loria and Samson first, MLB second, local/state govt third, and the fans fourth.

Sorry, he doesn't get a deal done he and the other parties deserve blame.

 

I never thought Samson should be a guy they send in to negotiate anything. He seems to get on everyone's nerves. I think the Marlins erred big-time there. He just doesn't fit the role.

Sorry, he doesn't get a deal done he and the other parties deserve blame.

 

I never thought Samson should be a guy they send in to negotiate anything. He seems to get on everyone's nerves. I think the Marlins erred big-time there. He just doesn't fit the role.

 

I agree. I would hate to spend more than five minutes with the guy.

If the Marlins move, I sure will miss Samson discussing his favorite movies with Dan Lebetard. :banghead

 

The guy has horrible taste in movies.

If the Marlins move, I sure will miss Samson discussing his favorite movies with Dan Lebetard. :banghead

 

The guy has horrible taste in movies.

 

What movies did he mention? Im kinda interested in his movie selection now.

Blame the fans. All the excuses in the world can't hide the fact that the people in this forum were the only ones that showed up at games.

 

Nah. Blame the public officials in the state Senate which wouldn't give the Marlins the same tax benefit all but one other major league franchise enjoys, and in the city that were never interested in dealing in good faith.

I think we have an interesting soap opera going on here. There are a few major players. 1) The Marlins. 2) Wayne Huizenga. 3) City officials (mayor, etc.) and their buddies. 4) The state.

 

The Marlins want a stadium and want to stay in So. Florida, but most importantly they just want a stadium.

 

Huizenga wants the Marlins to have a stadium in Florida, but most importantly wants them to have a stadium on his property. Huizenga has very close ties to Miami-Dade County.

 

City officials want the Marlins to stay in So. Florida, but want Loria to sell the team to a local Latino businessman (one of their buddies).

 

The state doesn't give a damn... they'll fund a stadium if the public support is there and they won't fund one if there isn't.

 

So here is the story line:

 

Marlins are in search of a stadium. They have bad relations with Huizenga. Huizenga says he wants them out - he said this perhaps a year or two ago. The Marlins set up a deal with the city and county and go to the state and say: we have no home. The state listens somewhat. When it seems that the proposal is picking up steam, Huizenga changes his mind and decides he wants to build shops, restaurants, bars, night clubs, etc. outside of Dolfins stadium. What better way to get a ton of people to come to these shops, restaurants, bars, etc., than to have over 20K (or perhaps more) come to a baseball game nearby 81 times per year? All of a sudden Huizenga says, "the Marlins have a place to play if they can't get their own stadium." This helps to kill the Marlins most important argument, that they don't have anywhere to play. The state says no to the Marlins' bid. Huizenga wants the Marlins to either 1) keep playing in DS or 2) get a stadium on his property. One way or the other, he wants them on his property.

 

City officials help to negotiate a deal for a stadium, but leave a financing gap that someone has to fill. They also say, "the Marlins must pay for cost overruns." Then they say they don't think Loria has the money to pay for all of this. They suggest that he sell the team to a local wealthy Latin businessman - one of Diaz's buddies. They don't make much progress because, in reality, they want to build a stadium, but only for one of their buddies. They want to build a stadium for Codina or another wealthy Latin businessman that is friends with Diaz. They try their best to make it impossible for current ownership to get the stadium done.

 

So, what do the Marlins do? They say they want to explore relocation. Damn the city officials and their friends. Damn the state. But they'll work with the County people because they've been nice. They won't leave unless they have to. At this point Huizenga is probably throwing a fit. He's losing his dream of having 20-25K people drive to the area where he'll have shops, restaurants, etc. Not only that, but, get this, if the Marlins leave So. Florida Wayne will stop getting the $2M rebate he's supposed to get in the next 20 years. He can only get this rebate if the Marlins play in Florida. So what does this mean? This means Wayne will be hit particularly hard financially if the Marlins leave Florida - he can't profit off the attendance and he'll lose an additional $2M per year. So, he's trying to come up with a viable solution - build the Marlins their stadium right next to DS. The county will be in on it because Wayne has a great relationship with them. The Marlins will be happy because they'll get what they've always wanted: a brand new beautiful stadium with a retractable roof.

 

The Marlins are threatening relocation to increase their leverage against Wayne and the County.

 

In the end, too much is at stake for all sides. Wayne, the County, and the Marlins all want the stadium, so it will be done. If Loria sells to one of Diaz's buddies, they'll build the stadium.

 

That's my take on the whole situation.

^^^

 

That sums it up quite well.

 

And a new baseball stadium adjacent to DS suits me just fine. Just get it done.

I think a new stadium next to DS would have to be accompanied by metrorail expansion, but it's acceptable.

A new stadium with the same lease won't help the Marlins