Hall would be the wrong choice, and doesn't fit in our team plans IMO. He will be 31 next season, and he doesn't call a very good game.

 

I think there are better options, espicially with the youngness across the board of our staff.

 

he doesn't call a good game? what evidence is there of that?... he's cheap, solid defensively and he can add a veteran presence... I don't mind him under the circumstances.

Here's the problem with the remaining trade and any Gathright/Hall thoughts.

 

We're in a catch-22. In a vacuum, we actually got pretty good value for LoDuca, but we did nothing to fill an area of need that we'll be creating for ourselves (center, second, catcher) meaning with one tradeable commodity, we have three holes to fill.

 

Whatever we get for Pierre will set the market value for Gathright, and what we've already gotten for LoDuca has set the bar high for Hall. So, to expect us to get these players from teams for cheap, all while getting a bounty of rebuilding prospects is a pipe dream at best.

 

We're not going to have a bounty of young players in return and a chance to reshape teh major league roster, it's one or the other, especially in a seller's market, and since we didn't use any of our tradeable assets to directly fill areas of need, we're pretty much stuck.

 

at this point, we should keep Pierre. Go hard after a veteran 2B (One year deal), and look for a C in a trade.

I suspect some of these pitchers we've been compiling over the years will be traded for other parts, but I wonder if we aren't reducing our leverage in negotiations by building up such a surplus. Teams know we can't keep all these guys. They know that the surplus surpasses the amount we can fit on the major league roster, even after the potential for injury, etc. We might be running out of meaningful innings to give to these prospects on their prospective minor league assignments this year. And by focusing on acquiring pitching, our positional player prospects have become bare. The teams we talk to about helping fill that weakness have gained leverage in negotiations. I think the plan is flawed.

We do not want hall. Forgot to mention he will make some nice change next year, I'd rather have a cheap young catcher that could produce the same. Hall is not very good. I'd almost rather see (ugh)Willingham as the starting catcher.

I suspect some of these pitchers we've been compiling over the years will be traded for other parts, but I wonder if we aren't reducing our leverage in negotiations by building up such a surplus. Teams know we can't keep all these guys. They know that the surplus surpasses the amount we can fit on the major league roster, even after the potential for injury, etc. We might be running out of meaningful innings to give to these prospects on their prospective minor league assignments this year. And by focusing on acquiring pitching, our positional player prospects have become bare. The teams we talk to about helping fill that weakness have gained leverage in negotiations. I think the plan is flawed.

 

great observation

I suspect some of these pitchers we've been compiling over the years will be traded for other parts, but I wonder if we aren't reducing our leverage in negotiations by building up such a surplus. Teams know we can't keep all these guys. They know that the surplus surpasses the amount we can fit on the major league roster, even after the potential for injury, etc. We might be running out of meaningful innings to give to these prospects on their prospective minor league assignments this year. And by focusing on acquiring pitching, our positional player prospects have become bare. The teams we talk to about helping fill that weakness have gained leverage in negotiations. I think the plan is flawed.

 

 

Exactly.

I think the plan is flawed.

 

 

I don't think we know what the "plan" is yet.

 

And it may be that in fact as has been suggested in various threads, Beinfest is shopping for others.

I think you guys are overanaylyzing this a bit... a package of, for example, Josh Johnson/Willingham should be about what it'll take to get Gathright and Hall, I would imagine.

Hall would be the wrong choice, and doesn't fit in our team plans IMO. He will be 31 next season, and he doesn't call a very good game.

 

I think there are better options, espicially with the youngness across the board of our staff.

 

he doesn't call a good game? what evidence is there of that?... he's cheap, solid defensively and he can add a veteran presence... I don't mind him under the circumstances.

 

Two scouting reports have said that he doesn't call a good game, he doesn't block balls in the dirt very good, and his mechanics are not good some of the time.

Umm... yeah, another pitching prospect? Out of all this, the Marlins only get an above average pitching prospect when they don't need a pitching prospect, in exchange for one of the top catchers in the game. I seriously think the FO is just trying to destroy the team. Why not go after Lasting Miledge, or somebody from another organization.

 

I'm sure they could have gotten a better prospect from a team outside the division, but they trade him in the division.

 

WTF is going on here?

LOL this feels like one of my LOST theories!

Just a thought, does this mean Willingham is the catcher by default now?

 

I'd like to have Willingham, Jacobs and Treanor or a veteran catcher split time at the position. Hopefully that would lead to us getting a .800+ OPS from the position and only one roster spot dedicated to a player who can play no position but catcher. Although I suspect Girardi would like one guy to start, and to mentor him.

 

That or try Willingham at 2B and hand Conine the LF job, but that doesn't make much sense with Psomas coming up through the system.

Well, at least we got Gaby.

 

I've stopped asking questions anymore because my head would explode.

Juanky, what's your opinion of him?(since you went to HS together)

Just a thought, does this mean Willingham is the catcher by default now?

 

 

I would rather have Willy there than Treanor.

How about Joe Dillon at 2nd :mischief2

I suspect some of these pitchers we've been compiling over the years will be traded for other parts, but I wonder if we aren't reducing our leverage in negotiations by building up such a surplus. Teams know we can't keep all these guys. They know that the surplus surpasses the amount we can fit on the major league roster, even after the potential for injury, etc. We might be running out of meaningful innings to give to these prospects on their prospective minor league assignments this year. And by focusing on acquiring pitching, our positional player prospects have become bare. The teams we talk to about helping fill that weakness have gained leverage in negotiations. I think the plan is flawed.

 

great observation

 

 

it is a great observation and one that should have been made before. I mean its obvious we wont keep all these pitchers, its just that for what we had to offer, the best in those respective systems were not hte positional needs we had, so we just go after more pitching. not difficult to figure out people.

Seriously, can someone please explain the Marlins rational in making this move?

Seriously, can someone please explain the Marlins rational in making this move?

 

 

Get good enough "in vacuum" value.

Juanky, what's your opinion of him?(since you went to HS together)

We go to college together too :whistle

 

Well, plenty has been said about him. He's a cool guy, and I can see him getting a shot in 2007 if he does well this season. He had a bit of issues with his arm slot by his own admission, which is why he had a problem later in the season. He says they've fixed it and he did well to end the season, though I didn't look at his final boxscores much. I've never seen him play against professional competition, though as of 2004 his curveball was above average and his fastball had pretty good movement for a Major League prospect. The change is an issue, but I'm sure we'll get him working on it. Losing our catcher is dumbed down a bit because they acquired one of my classmates.

 

Looks like I have three new jerseys to buy now :lol

Seriously, can someone please explain the Marlins rational in making this move?

 

hopefully we would know by spring training

I suspect some of these pitchers we've been compiling over the years will be traded for other parts, but I wonder if we aren't reducing our leverage in negotiations by building up such a surplus. Teams know we can't keep all these guys. They know that the surplus surpasses the amount we can fit on the major league roster, even after the potential for injury, etc. We might be running out of meaningful innings to give to these prospects on their prospective minor league assignments this year. And by focusing on acquiring pitching, our positional player prospects have become bare. The teams we talk to about helping fill that weakness have gained leverage in negotiations. I think the plan is flawed.

 

 

I agree.

Report: Mets cross catcher off wish list, get Lo Duca

 

ESPN.com news services

 

The wheeling-and-dealing New York Mets crossed another need off their 2006 wish list, acquiring All-Star catcher Paul Lo Duca from the Florida Marlins in exchange for two minor league pitchers, the New York Daily News reported on its Web site.

 

It would be the second deal between the Mets and Marlins this offseason, with Florida sending slugging first baseman Carlos Delgado to New York last month. The Mets also signed free-agent closer Billy Wagner, giving Mets general manager Omar Minaya a player at every postition he said was a priority.

 

Lo Duca, 33, was an All-Star in each of the past three seasons. He will be taking the place of Mike Piazza, a sure Hall of Fame player and, like Lo Duca, a former Dodger. Lo Duca hit .283 with six homers and 57 RBI for the Marlins in 2005.

 

The Mets will send 21-year-old right-hander Gaby Hernandez and another minor leaguer pitcher to be named, the Daily News reported.

 

The departure of Lo Duca would represent the further dismantling of a competitive Marlins franchise, which sent Luis Castillo, a three-time All-Star and the Marlins' career leader in six major categories, to the Twins last week. The Marlins are citing rising costs after repeated bids for a new ballpark failed.

 

Delgado, ace Josh Beckett and third baseman Mike Lowell are also gone, and center fielder Juan Pierre is on the block.

 

Minnesota gave up right-handers Travis Bowyer and Scott Tyler in the Castillo deal. The Marlins plan to use the hard-throwing Bowyer in the bullpen next season, while Tyler will begin the year in their minor-league system, general manager Admin Beinfest said.

 

With no new stadium on the horizon in South Florida, team president David Samson announced last week that the Marlins would dramatically reduce their payroll, which was $60 million at the start of the 2005 season. He also said the team will consider moving after the 2007 season, with Las Vegas and Portland, Ore., among the candidates.

 

With three trades, Florida has cut about $32 million from next year's payroll, excluding any Lo Duca deal. On Thanksgiving Day, Florida received seven prospects by trading Delgado to the Mets and sending Lowell and Beckett to Boston.

 

The Marlins' so-called fire sale is their second in eight years. Former owner Wayne Huizenga ordered a payroll purge after the team won the 1997 World Series, and prospects acquired in subsequent deals helped Florida win the title again in 2003 under current owner Jeffrey Loria.

 

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Im pretty pumped we got Gaby out of this deal

Just a thought, does this mean Willingham is the catcher by default now?

 

I'd like to have Willingham, Jacobs and Treanor or a veteran catcher split time at the position. Hopefully that would lead to us getting a .800+ OPS from the position and only one roster spot dedicated to a player who can play no position but catcher. Although I suspect Girardi would like one guy to start, and to mentor him.

 

That or try Willingham at 2B and hand Conine the LF job, but that doesn't make much sense with Psomas coming up through the system.

 

Why would anyone expect Conine to be signed? It is becoming increasingly clear the FO intends to collect as much cash as possible this upcoming year with little regard for the W-L record.