Ok, first off...this will sound absurd but just let me make it clear that its a serious question, I'm not trying to be funny, and I'm not picking on the Red Sox...so hear me out...

 

After David Ortiz's walkoff a few nights ago...in realizing how many times he has come up huge in the clutch...I first thought of this just being funny...but then I really questioned...

 

Why is David Ortiz, or any other MAJOR home run hitter, like Pujols, never questioned for steroids or any other enhancing substances?

 

The reason I ask is...we constantly question Barry Bonds...but damn, Pujols and (especially) Ortiz, have been hitting bigger, more frequent home runs than Bonds for a while now...its almost "not fair" to the opponents just how many times Big Papi has had a walk off home run...

 

So why is the question never brought up?

 

I'm not accusing them, nor do I believe they are doing anything illegal...but I'm just saying that, at least for this season, isnt the on-field evidence against Ortiz much greater than the evidence against Bonds? Bonds swings and misses way too many times this year...but Ortiz has 5 walkoffs this year alone...who do you think is more likely to be up to something?

 

I'm lost and I may not be making sense, but maybe someone can hear me out, cause this has been on my mind for a few days...

 

thanks :thumbup

Because unlike Bonds, there is no overwhelming evidence saying Pujols and Big Papi have abused them, let alone taken them.

 

Hell, Pujols looks like he still has baby fat. And Ortiz(Pujols too) are just good people. Smiling all the time, friendly with the fans...big teddy bears if you will.

 

Bond's is a racist, cheats on his taxes, cheats on his wife, beats his mistress, and has so many links to steroids and steroids suppliers that the media and general public have not only the desire but the tools to expose him.

 

No such animosity exists for Oritz or Pujols.

ok, so youre admitting that part of it is just a vendetta against Bonds. I'm not Bonds' biggest fan, but that's not right at all then.

 

Basically my question has changed then...this isnt about Papi...but why is Bonds the only one being questioned when others have put up more telling on-field home run numbers.

 

If its clearly just a vendetta, that's not right.

As I said, the vendetta isn't the biggest issue. There is so much evidence saying that Bonds did in fact do steroids(and I think your wrong about "more telling hr #'s"...Bonds had his best HR years after the age of 36 when his body was already showing signs of breaking down).

 

Evidence that strongly supports the claims that Bond's used does not exist for Pujols and Papi. The fact that Bonds might be the most unethical professional athlete ever just fuels the fire...but he could be a darling little angel and the large amount of evidence that he used would still be there regardless.

ok so we've got vendettas, evidence, and what seems to be your biggest point: age. In that while Papi and Pujols may have bigger numbers in 2006 theyre still relatively young and are more likely to just be "good" power hitters. Bonds is above 40, so the fact that he's hit so many home runs in recent years is suspicious? Thats what we're at here?

 

Ok, I can accept that...but let me play Devil's Advocate for a second...in 12 years, if David Ortiz is still hitting half a dozen walk off shots a year...can we PLEASE accuse him? Thanks :thumbup

 

...and thanks for answering my question, it clears things up a bit, I think I just needed to debate it a little to get it off my chest...

ok so we've got vendettas, evidence, and what seems to be your biggest point: age. In that while Papi and Pujols may have bigger numbers in 2006 theyre still relatively young and are more likely to just be "good" power hitters. Bonds is above 40, so the fact that he's hit so many home runs in recent years is suspicious? Thats what we're at here?

 

in 12 years, if David Ortiz is still hitting half a dozen walk off shots a year...can we PLEASE accuse him? Thanks :thumbup

 

what does hitting walkoffs have to do with steroids?

 

and for Spike, Pujols is built like a tank.... I dont see any baby fat on him

Ortiz thrives in pressure situations. I dont really see a relation between that and steroids.

 

Pujols doesnt even consider himself a HR hitter. He also always has a high average, in nearly every season. He puts the bat on the ball often and therefore puts more home runs in the stands.

 

Bonds went from around a .280 hitter the first 16 years of his career to hitting well over .300 from ages 37-present.

Be careful...questions like these get you in trouble with the Sox fans who don't see a chance in hell that their beloved Papi is a user.

 

Seriously though he wasn't this big in Minnesota....Shouldn't matter if your naughty or nice, steroid users are steroid users.

Yeah I figured those damn Sox fans would get upset...but I made it clear this wasnt a crack on them...

 

And what do walkoffs have to do with steroids? If youre on them, then presumably your chances of hitting a homerun increase with every opportunity...and look at the numbers for Ortiz, he has a HIGH number of walkoffs...

 

I mean, Josh Willingham hit a walk off last night...but, no offense to him, the chances of him hitting another walk off homerun tonight, are greatly diminished...even if the Hammer were to get an at bat in the ninth inning of every close game, the chances are low that he'd actually hit one...with Papi though, he's already done it 5 times this year alone

He thrives in pressure situations.

The reason Papi or Pujols don't get villified?

 

 

 

They are all around good guys. Its easier to hate someone whose dogged by criminal allegations and has a bad attitude (Bonds) then someone who has done a lot of good for the community and is one of the games nice guys (Pujols).

There is nothing babyish about Pujols. That guy is as jacked as a pro wrestler and looks like he's 36 NOT 26. I'm as suspicious of Pujols as I am of anyone else (if not more so).

 

I'm sure someone will respond with, "oh but performance enhancers don't make you a better hitter. Blah, blah, blah."

 

To this I say: go to Sports Authority and buy one plastic wiffleball bat and one Louisville Slugger. Now go to a field and have someone toss a wiffleball to you. Your goal is to hit the ball. Take equal amounts of swings with each bat. I will bet that you make contact more frequently with the lighter plastic bat, than with the heavy wooden bat. Why? Because it's lighter. When the bat is lighter, you can make small corrections in your swing to compensate for ball movement or a misjudgement of the pitch's trajectory.

 

This scenario is analogous to athletes on performance enhancers. Doped up, they are significantly stronger than they are naturally. Meaning the bat is lighter. Meaning they can make better last second adjustments. Meaning they can wait a fraction of second longer for that pitch to come, and judge where it will be. Meaning they are better than they are naturally.

 

(I realize that I went off on a tangent, but I hate performence enhancers.)

Look, i don't agree with the premise that because he hits walk-offs doesnt mean he's a juicer.....look at the length of his homers.....look at his physique compared to his Twins physique....

 

vs.

The reason Papi or Pujols don't get villified?

 

 

 

They are (appear to be - Bryan) all around good guys. Its easier to hate someone whose dogged by criminal allegations and has a bad attitude (Bonds) then someone who has done a lot of good for the community and is one of the games nice guys (Pujols).

 

 

I don't want to get into another Ortiz/Pujols steroid argument, but I will just say that most people don't want them to be taking steroids, so until there is any hard evidence otherwise they'll overlook the hints/clues that have been given to them. Media darlings get a pass sometimes, it's just the way it works.

If Pujols is not taking performance enhancing drugs, I'll eat my hat. The guy has an abnormally large head that is covered in adult acne (and we know Pujols and his multi-$$$ contract can afford proactive solution), and has about 1% body fat. He is a monster.

1. there's no evidence that either one of them did anything wrong

2. they're fan favorites, so ESPN's not going to stir up controversy.

3. bonds is a dick to the media, so they'll make him look bad.

Ortiz thrives in pressure situations. I dont really see a relation between that and steroids.

 

Pujols doesnt even consider himself a HR hitter. He also always has a high average, in nearly every season. He puts the bat on the ball often and therefore puts more home runs in the stands.

 

Bonds went from around a .280 hitter the first 16 years of his career to hitting well over .300 from ages 37-present.

 

Check the stats, as usual, you are wrong.

 

It's amazing to me that Bonds is considered to be having this awful season and he's still got a .900+ OPS. So many players dream of having .900+ OPS in their best years, much less one of their worst, in their 40s, with bad knees.

 

For the record, I think Bonds did steroids, however, I also feel his unfairly singled out as the primo steroid user. I think baseball should be guilty until proven innocent at this point. I mean, if guys like Jorge Piedra and Alex Sanchez are doing roids, who isn't doing them?

I'm glad to see so many people advocate guilty before innocent, good thing the American judicial system doesn't work that way for all our sakes.

 

So what alot of you are saying is if you are a home run hitter, clutch, or hit walk off hits, you are on Steroids? That's the 'evidence' against Pujols and Ortiz? What a joke.

 

Pujols and Ortiz haven't changed size and their power has always been there. Ortiz became a more complete player for a variety of reasons

 

Bond's is getting the backhand and singled out in all this because his fingerprints are all over the BALCO scandal, which is what really brought steroids to the forefront in the media. Bonds has not been 'the only one questioned' tell that To Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Bobby Estella, Benito Santiago, etc.

 

To say there is 'more evidence against Ortiz or Pujols than Bonds' is one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever heard.

I'm glad to see so many people advocate guilty before innocent, good thing the American judicial system doesn't work that way for all our sakes.

 

So what alot of you are saying is if you are a home run hitter, clutch, or hit walk off hits, you are on Steroids? That's the 'evidence' against Pujols and Ortiz? What a joke.

 

Pujols and Ortiz haven't changed size and their power has always been there. Ortiz became a more complete player for a variety of reasons

 

Bond's is getting the backhand and singled out in all this because his fingerprints are all over the BALCO scandal, which is what really brought steroids to the forefront in the media. Bonds has not been 'the only one questioned' tell that To Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Bobby Estella, Benito Santiago, etc.

 

To say there is 'more evidence against Ortiz or Pujols than Bonds' is one of the most ludicrous statements I've ever heard.

 

Baseball and the American judicial system are about as opposite as could be. The sport is dirty as crap and we all know that more than likely a lot of guys are on roids, regardless if they have the telltale signs or not.

 

Also, comparing the heat Bonds gets to the amount of heat anyone else gets is laughable. Bonds gets more steroid heat in a week than those guys get over the course of a year. Regardless of Bonds being the most guilty, it's still ridiculous that he's the most targeted one. With or without steroids, he's the best player of our generation without a shadow of a doubt.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that clutch hits are the telltale signs of roids or HGH, but when guys go from hitting 20 HRs in one year to hitting in the 50 or so HRs there's a legitimate reason for people to question the results. I mean, don't you think Brady Anderson/Luis Gonzalez throwing up 50 HR seasons to never again touch 30 should raise questions about the legitimacy of players.

 

Let's not even get into pitchers. I mean, Clemens a guy in his mid-40s is as dominant as ever. We all know what roids do for people, I mean, who's to say he isn't roiding? Sure, he doesn't have the body of someone like Bonds, but I mean we all know that Alex Sanchez didn't exactly look like David Boston either.

I didn't compare it, I just justified it. He is a huge part of one of the biggest American doping scandals of all time and he passed Babe Ruth for home runs this year and can still catch Aaron, of course he is going to be catching heat and rightfully so.

 

The maker of this thread did use clutch hits to bring up steroids and Ortiz. And you bring up the 20 HR and then a ballooned season but that's quite the opposite of Pujols and Ortiz as one has been doing it since he came into the league and the other for the past 4 seasons. They aren't fluctuating or having a fluke season out of nowhere.

 

It's just not my way to throw random names under the bus. I gave Bonds the benefit of the doubt for a long time until the avalanche of evidence fell on him and then I made an opinion. It's extremely unfair/ridiculous to just pick and choose who you think does steroids when there is nothing linking them to it and someone saying that a player is, is pretty much just slander.

I didn't compare it, I just justified it. He is a huge part of one of the biggest American doping scandals of all time and he passed Babe Ruth for home runs this year and can still catch Aaron, of course he is going to be catching heat and rightfully so.

 

The maker of this thread did use clutch hits to bring up steroids and Ortiz. And you bring up the 20 HR and then a ballooned season but that's quite the opposite of Pujols and Ortiz as one has been doing it since he came into the league and the other for the past 4 seasons. They aren't fluctuating or having a fluke season out of nowhere.

 

It's just not my way to throw random names under the bus. I gave Bonds the benefit of the doubt for a long time until the avalanche of evidence fell on him and then I made an opinion. It's extremely unfair/ridiculous to just pick and choose who you think does steroids when there is nothing linking them to it and someone saying that a player is, is pretty much just slander.

 

Did I mention Oritz as a roider? Pujols? I said that people like Luis Gonzalez and Brady Anderson. Also, I'm not throwing random names under the bus, I'm throwing everyone under the bus. Baseball players and the union's desire to completely kill steroid testing reeks of guilt. They're not going to be so secretive unless they've got something to hide. It's the stance I have and will continue to have until baseball has a legitimate (read: HGH-testing) drug policy. It's the same reason I am more inclined to believe that basketball, football, track, etc. are legit because people get suspended and the drug policies are quite rigorous.

Are you talking about the same NBA and NFL I know that doesn't have HGH testing?

 

The NFL has planted a huge facade over it's steroid testing since '93 and it's validity has been more opinion then actual fact (They have banned HGH, but they still don't test for it. Durrrrr). They still don't test for HGH just like the NBA doesn't. When the Senate committee investigated the NFL in 2000 they found that in the 90s NFL stars were not punished for failing tests, a 'double standard'.

 

I don't think that the NFL catches more people, they couldn't catch 3 Panthers who were known to have obtained steroids prior to the Super Bowl. Only 18 players from '01-'04 violated (if anyone can find the '05 or ;06 numbers please share, I couldn't find them) the league's drug policy (they don't let it known which substance triggered the results). Since baseball started it's policy in '05 they have suspended 111 players.

 

You are condemning baseball and at the same time commending other sports when they all have the same problems.

I have to make one minor correction here. Ortiz has not hit 5 walk-off homeruns this year. He has 5 walk-off hits, whether that be a homerun or just a single... I'm pretty sure anyways... But to even link walk-off homeruns or hits to steroids is one of the strangest things I have ever heard.

Top HR year in Minny: 20

Worst HR Year in Boston: 31

 

While I am not saying Ortiz has taken steroids or any other illegal supplement, I don't see how it is so unreasonable to think he has done something.

 

Not trying to pick on him, but the recent history in baseball just makes things skeptical for anyone to believe anything. Either way, he still has to have the coordination to do what he is doing, which is unbelievable.

 

As for Pujols, he is just nasty but there are many things that make me question his "naturalism", much more so than Papi's.

Ortiz does look a bit bigger.

 

From the look of him we know he didn't "bulk up" using the waitroom