August 3, 200620 yr Author I don't see why he should have been bunting at all. The run was already in scoring position. Double play? No. Just move the runners via steal. It MAY NOT cost an out and it avoids the double play. I don't care if Hanley can bunt or not. He shouldn't have been doing it at all. Knowing Hanley's bunting skills, my first reaction was swing away. Not to get scientific, but tonight was just another example of how baseball is a game of chance, among other things. If the runners go, there's a chance they're thrown out. If the runners stay put and he swings away, there's a chance of a double play. If he bunts with two strikes, there's a chance he bunts foul. Like I said, different managers would choose to manage the situation different ways. I don't think there really is a wrong call in this situation.
August 3, 200620 yr why do we have to take the bat out of Hanley's hands though? he's been playing well recently Your 2 best hitters were up next.
August 3, 200620 yr I don't see why he should have been bunting at all. The run was already in scoring position. Double play? No. Just move the runners via steal. It MAY NOT cost an out and it avoids the double play. I don't care if Hanley can bunt or not. He shouldn't have been doing it at all. asking abercrombie to steal third is just as asinine if not worse than asking ramirez to bunt with two strikes. he's fast, but a terrible basestealer. he'll jump too early and get picked or jump too late and get thrown out. he's alex gonzalez on the basepaths...horrible.
August 3, 200620 yr if Joe wanted someone to bunt, why have someone who sucks at it up there? Did he have many other options? Dude... watch it.. you're on thin enough ice for starting a thread like this before the end of the game. Willis could have come in. Herges. Any of the pitchers who pitch-ran (wtf was that about?!) in the 9th. Even though the bunt call was questionable (not wrong), the rest of the game before and after that was brilliantly managed. Different managers would've made a different call. Both sides have a good argument. As a tenured member of this community under various usernames you should know such threads are not made before the end of the game. I've seen it done before tonight. Then you know why I'm bitching at you now so then we're going to get Kensing tired on the basepaths and then pitch??? How you he get tired out? If somebody singles he would have jogged to 2nd base. If somebody doubles, he scores and he doesn't have to pitch. Perhaps ired is not the best word. But he's not focusing on the task we'll need him soon. It breaks his concentration. It messes with the rhythm he was developing in the bullpen. For what? A summer jog?
August 3, 200620 yr Look I'm not saying my opinion is correct in this case, but someone please explain to me why ANY PLAYER should have been bunting with runners on first and second with no outs instead of trying to execute a double steal. Am I missing something? yeah, you are. you want scott olsen to steal a base? :lol
August 3, 200620 yr Hey....let's see if we can keep this second-guessing thread going on all night. Won't be with me though. I'm gone for tonite. Last comment. Giraldi should be manager of the year....looking at the season as a whole. :notworthy :notworthy
August 3, 200620 yr if Joe wanted someone to bunt, why have someone who sucks at it up there? hanley needs to learn to bunt. its a basic fundamental of the game and unexcusable for a leadoff man to not be able to get a simple sacrifice down. no sh*t he needs to learn how to bunt... BUT IF WE KNOW HE SUCKS AT IT, WHY DOESNT JOE? its the right call. period. if you want to play the blame game, blame hanley for not being able to perform one of the simplest things at the plate. And running on two strikes is the appropriate call too, but a manager on a team full of Matt LeCroys would be fired by the end of the week if he followed the book with that talent. If Hanley does his damn job before he gets to two strikes it really doesnt matter. I agree that Hanley needs to be swinging away with 2 strikes, but beforehand its still the absolute right call. If Girardi does his damn job of utilizing his available talent to win ball games, Hanley doesn't bunt. Interesting twist on this conversation: Girardi has stressed that he's not afraid to press the kids to win this year. Yet tonight he takes the opportunity ina game-impacting situation to teach a lesson for the future? you just answered your own question. he felt that the best shot at winning was the bunt.
August 3, 200620 yr Author if Joe wanted someone to bunt, why have someone who sucks at it up there? Did he have many other options? Dude... watch it.. you're on thin enough ice for starting a thread like this before the end of the game. Willis could have come in. Herges. Any of the pitchers who pitch-ran (wtf was that about?!) in the 9th. Even though the bunt call was questionable (not wrong), the rest of the game before and after that was brilliantly managed. Different managers would've made a different call. Both sides have a good argument. As a tenured member of this community under various usernames you should know such threads are not made before the end of the game. I've seen it done before tonight. Then you know why I'm bitching at you now And I can assure you now, it won't happen again. So the bitching isn't really nessecary.
August 3, 200620 yr I don't see why he should have been bunting at all. The run was already in scoring position. Double play? No. Just move the runners via steal. It MAY NOT cost an out and it avoids the double play. I don't care if Hanley can bunt or not. He shouldn't have been doing it at all. asking abercrombie to steal third is just as asinine if not worse than asking ramirez to bunt with two strikes. he's fast, but a terrible basestealer. he'll jump too early and get picked or jump too late and get thrown out. he's alex gonzalez on the basepaths...horrible. I'm the resident Reggie hater and I think he could have easily pulled it off with Lo Duca's weak and hurting arm (and a right handed batter). and if he gets thrown out... then what? scott olsen at second instead of abercrombie? nice move, skip.
August 3, 200620 yr Author Look I'm not saying my opinion is correct in this case, but someone please explain to me why ANY PLAYER should have been bunting with runners on first and second with no outs instead of trying to execute a double steal. Am I missing something? yeah, you are. you want scott olsen to steal a base? :lol Throw would go to third, dude. Thats irrelevent. Which is why I question bringing Kensing in to run. If the game is tied, you've wasted an arm. Only thing I can muster is that if the hit and run is on and Uggla swings and misses and the runner going to third gets caught, that you have a little more speed in Kensing on second. Still, its not worth wasting his arm for a little more speed.
August 3, 200620 yr Look I'm not saying my opinion is correct in this case, but someone please explain to me why ANY PLAYER should have been bunting with runners on first and second with no outs instead of trying to execute a double steal. Am I missing something? We had 2 pretty poor baserunners on the paths, whose to say one isn't picked off attempting it? Plus do you really want one of our pitchers stealing?
August 3, 200620 yr why do we have to take the bat out of Hanley's hands though? he's been playing well recently Your 2 best hitters were up next. since the All Star Break, Hanley is hitting .283 and Uggla is hitting .230 and Hanley already had 2 hits tonight
August 3, 200620 yr Bunting with 2 on with 0 out is what pretty much every team does when they are down by 1 run/tie game etc:. So this is not out of the ordinary. There is a better chance of scoring a run with a runner on 3 with 1 down. All Uggla needed to do was hit the ball out of the infield which is easier than a single. This should be blamed on Hanley for not knowing how to bunt.
August 3, 200620 yr Look I'm not saying my opinion is correct in this case, but someone please explain to me why ANY PLAYER should have been bunting with runners on first and second with no outs instead of trying to execute a double steal. Am I missing something? yeah, you are. you want scott olsen to steal a base? :lol Where would the throw be going? who knows, knowing abercombie, he'd probably get picked off so it isn't even an issue. you don't put the ballgame in reggie abercombie's hands...especially since he's shown to be one of the worst baserunners around. like i said, i'd rather take my chances with ramirez bunting with 2 strikes than let abercombie run.
August 3, 200620 yr If the Marlins would have won the idea would have been geinus... Give it up... big deal, were lucky we got back in this game... Marlins played well and Joe managed the game well....
August 3, 200620 yr . This should be blamed on Hanley for not knowing how to bunt. Yep, if he knew how to the whole 2 strike bunt call would be irrelevant.
August 3, 200620 yr None of this even matters. Lets say Hanley does bunt. There's 1 out. And the next two guys struck out, so the run wouldn't have scored anyhow. You can not think that way. They might have walked Uggla since his run means nothing. Surely not intentianal since Cabrera hit behind.
August 3, 200620 yr Look I'm not saying my opinion is correct in this case, but someone please explain to me why ANY PLAYER should have been bunting with runners on first and second with no outs instead of trying to execute a double steal. Am I missing something? We had 2 pretty poor baserunners on the paths, whose to say one isn't picked off attempting it? Plus do you really want one of our pitchers stealing? If you put a pitcher in the game to run you should expect him to do what is necessary. who else was he going to put in? treanor? you get the same end result. if it was ramirez/amezaga on first and second, you may have a point.. but not here...no way. what you are asking for isn't even an option.
August 3, 200620 yr Look I'm not saying my opinion is correct in this case, but someone please explain to me why ANY PLAYER should have been bunting with runners on first and second with no outs instead of trying to execute a double steal. Am I missing something? yeah, you are. you want scott olsen to steal a base? :lol Where would the throw be going? who knows, knowing abercombie, he'd probably get picked off so it isn't even an issue. you don't put the ballgame in reggie abercombie's hands...especially since he's shown to be one of the worst baserunners around. like i said, i'd rather take my chances with ramirez bunting with 2 strikes than let abercombie run. Reggie's improved by leaps and bounds baserunning, Hanley still sucks at bunting that being said, I have no clue what el penguino is talking about having Olsen try to steal 2b then again, with Lo Duca ailing, I could see Reggie stealing 3rd relatively easily
August 3, 200620 yr Hanley should have gotten a bunt down before he had 2 strikes on him. If he got the bunt down with 2 strikes Joe would have been a genius. So.... :lol :lol :lol Joe would not have been a genius. Joe and genius will never be uttered together He has a team with a 15 million dollar payroll playing nearly .500 ball. Joe Girardi is a genius. his in game management leaves much to be desired give me a break. you and everyone else will always complain about "in game management". I don't think i've ever heard a fan give props to a manager for their "in game management". if he lets hanley swing away and he hits into a double play...... "why wasn't he bunting??!?!?!?" he needed to bunt, but not with two fricking strikes! i agree with two strikes you let him swing, but looking at things from girardi's perspective, sooner or later your players need to excecute fundamentals...ramirez sucks at it, yes, but who's fault is that? it's hanley's. you really think ramirez isn't going to put time in the batting cages after essentially blowing this game for us? he's going to take this loss hard and hopefully in the long run, it pays off with him not being an atrocious bunter. So good management is stubbornly jeorpordizing your teams chances of winning in order to prove your point? If Messenger is wild, do you put him in with the bases loaded and a 3-0 count just to show him that missing the strike zone is bad? I mean come on dude. There are other ways of teaching than doing so at the expense of the rest of the team. that isn't why girardi does it, it's just a silver lining. he does it because with men on 1st and 2nd with no out, you bunt, period. it doesnt matter if treanor is up, if ramirez is up, if God himself is up, you bunt. if ramirez gave a damn about bunting he would have been in the batting cage learning how to do it months ago...but he doesn't, and he didn't. he deserves the responsibility if anyone, not girardi. i'm not going to blame hanley either, though. in a game where you have 4 errors and are horrible yet again with men in scoring position, no one in particular is at fault. we deserved to lose. Save for a handful of people the debate is not whether he should have been bunting at all, but whether he should have been bunting with two strikes. It's just so damned risky. The way Hanley bunts, it's more likely that he'll foul out (as he did) than magically put down a good bunt. Plus, you hand the Mets an out without them having to do anything. No one had to field the ball, and Wagner didn't even have to make his pitch. It's so absurd I can't stand it. It's nonsense. The idea is pure nonsense.
August 3, 200620 yr If the Marlins would have won the idea would have been geinus... Give it up... big deal, were lucky we got back in this game... Marlins played well and Joe managed the game well.... :notworthy
August 3, 200620 yr If the Marlins would have won the idea would have been geinus... Give it up... big deal, were lucky we got back in this game... Marlins played well and Joe managed the game well.... I doubt bunting with 2 strikes is ever considered a good idea in that situation. It'd just be a lucky decision. Joe managed the game well except for the 2 strike bunt... unless Hanley bunted on his own there but I doubt that.
August 3, 200620 yr . This should be blamed on Hanley for not knowing how to bunt. Yep, if he knew how to the whole 2 strike bunt call would be irrelevant. but because he doesnt know how, we get to argue like idiots! :lol Look I'm not saying my opinion is correct in this case, but someone please explain to me why ANY PLAYER should have been bunting with runners on first and second with no outs instead of trying to execute a double steal. Am I missing something? yeah, you are. you want scott olsen to steal a base? :lol Where would the throw be going? who knows, knowing abercombie, he'd probably get picked off so it isn't even an issue. you don't put the ballgame in reggie abercombie's hands...especially since he's shown to be one of the worst baserunners around. like i said, i'd rather take my chances with ramirez bunting with 2 strikes than let abercombie run. Joe managed himself into a corner. The Marlins didn't have many options. Hell, we almost saw Olivo or Treanor playing first base. You would have seen Willingham at first, Cody in LF and Reggie in CF... I think
August 3, 200620 yr Author If the Marlins would have won the idea would have been geinus... Give it up... big deal, were lucky we got back in this game... Marlins played well and Joe managed the game well.... I doubt bunting with 2 strikes is ever considered a good idea in that situation. It'd just be a lucky decision. Joe managed the game well except for the 2 strike bunt... unless Hanley bunted on his own there but I doubt that. No way Hanley bunts on his own. Especially considering the kind of night he was having.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.