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Girardi's status is still tenuous


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Girardi's status is still tenuous

 

With the Marlins continuing to amaze, why does manager Joe Girardi remain in jeopardy of losing his job at season's end? The more we hear, the more it becomes clearer why owner Jeffrey Loria issued another ''no comment'' this week regarding Girardi's future.

 

For starters, there's a misperception that Loria's problems with Girardi are mostly the result of the manager telling Loria not to yell at the umpires during a game in July. Loria was livid at the time, and had to be convinced to change his mind about firing him.

 

But if Girardi -- who obviously has done an exceptional job -- is fired in October, that won't be the reason. The fact that Girardi suggested some questionable personnel moves in spring training (such as moving Miguel Cabrera to first base) also won't be the reason.

 

Baseball officials close to the situation say the main issue has been this: Loria likes his organization run collectively, with the front office having input beyond player procurement. And too often, Girardi has resisted those suggestions, causing a significant strain between him and the front office, including GM Admin Beinfest.

 

''It has been a constant fight,'' one of the officials said.

 

The Marlins should have known there would be trouble in November, when they recommended Girardi keep pitching coach Mark Wiley, who was brushed off by Girardi. (The Marlins have been pleased with his replacement, Rick Kranitz.)

 

Among the numerous internal disagreements the past few months was Girardi's decision often to use Matt Treanor to catch Dontrelle Willis and Scott Olsen earlier in the season. The front office wanted Miguel Olivo to play more often. In Girardi's defense, he has played Olivo a lot more in the second half, though Treanor's stint on the DL was a factor.

 

For much of the season, Girardi's approach, according to one of the officials, has been ''very controlling, like I'll run this team the way I want to run this team.'' When front-office officials ask Girardi after games why he made certain decisions, he hasn't been particularly responsive, which also has been an issue.

 

In general, ''the manager is accountable to the front office and should be receptive to those discussions,'' said ESPN analyst and ex-Mets GM Steve Phillips, who said those discussions are sometimes better held the next day.

 

Girardi's game strategy also has been questioned internally at times. Management was unhappy that he didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off Olsen. (Howard was intentionally walked twice Saturday.)

 

Here's how the situation stands now: There remains sentiment internally to make a managerial change at season's end, and several baseball people close to the situation expect it. But because Loria, like most people, is subject to changing his mind, it's quite possible Girardi could survive.

 

The other question is whether Girardi would even want to return or if he would pitch a buyout on the last two years of his contract. The Cubs job, expected to be vacant, assuredly would appeal to him.

 

Phillips said Girardi ''would be at the top of the list to be interviewed'' for whatever managerial job is open. ''He has clearly proven he can develop young players. That would be letting a valuable asset go,'' Phillips said.

 

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport.../printstory.jsp

 

I give Girardi about a 1% chance of coming back.

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I'm willing to be proven wrong but I still say that if Girardi leaves it will be under conditions and with compensation highly favorable to the Florida Marlins.

 

Under no circumstances do I see him "fired". He has a contract which obligates the Fish to pay him for three years, and obligates him to manage the Fish for three years. If it turns out Chicago or someone else has an interest the first thing that will happen is compensation will be agreed to between the organizations before word one is said. And be sure Admin Beinfest will plunder any organization so inclined to hire Girardi.

 

The other issue is of course the coaching staff, which would no doubt want to follow Joe wherever he went. In my mind this is the single biggest stumbling block to letting Girardi leave and ultimately may keep his job secure. It all depends on how negoiations play out. Were the Cubs (for example) interested in Girardi, Tuck, Kranitz, Presley and Meacham, as a package (doubting they would be interested in the individual coaches without the manager) the compensation could off the charts.

 

If, based on the last time a manager was "traded", brings an All-Star player in return, imagine the compensation for the "package" above. You could be looking at their best cheap talent at the both the major league level and in their minor league system.

 

There's the rub. You want Girardi, it costs you Murton and Hill (or equivalents). You want the "package", all or in part, (and Beinfest will negotiate an agreement which says if the Cubs hire any of them a pre-set compensation agreement will kick in) the Cubs will be handing over Pie (the only guy I really know in their minor league system, I'll let the people here who follow all these minor leaguers pick the names, I can't) and figure one more of their top ten prospects for every coach they hire.

 

So where would the Cubs be left? Without a farm system and dependent going forward on continuing down the road of buying free agent players. All to get Girardi and company whose skill seems to be working with young players. Who knows how experienced major leaguers will respond to Girardi's "my way or the highway" approach?

 

The Marlins hold all the cards here and count on Beinfest playing them for all they're worth. I want him to stay, expect him to stay, but if not it could be an absolute windfall of talent for the ready for primetime Marlins.

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Girardi's game strategy also has been questioned internally at times. Management was unhappy that he didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off Olsen. (Howard was intentionally walked twice Saturday.)

 

Ahhh...sweet validation.

 

You think Loria and Samson know anything more about "in game management" than you do?

 

Keep posting, I need the laughs.

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Regardless of whether or not you agree with the decisions he makes, he's done/is doing a fantastic job with this team.

 

I'd be shocked if he were let go, for the ramifications for the franchise would be incredibly bad (I'd say unprecedented, but these are the Marlins).

 

 

 

Yes, but isn't that what Lora wants.

 

Haven't there been rumors that he didn't want the team to do well this year, so he could plead with local government to hammer the taxpayers so he can "afford" to put a winner on the field?

 

Didn't he pull similar stunts in Montreal as he destroyed that franchise and drove away the fans so the franchise could be moved to DC as MLB wanted?

 

Isn't that the REAL reason Loria is upset with Girardi, because Girardi has these guys playing way over their heads, undermining Loria's attempt to get taxpayer money for his stadium?

 

I would hate to see Girardi go, but if I were in his shoes, I would bail out of this franchise as fast as I could, with it's one-year wonders, depleted minor league system, and low payroll.

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Girardi's game strategy also has been questioned internally at times. Management was unhappy that he didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off Olsen. (Howard was intentionally walked twice Saturday.)

 

Ahhh...sweet validation.

 

 

 

:lol

 

Its funny that no one is quoted as saying that in the story.

 

Its just kind of stuck in the article with no origination or credibility.

 

more like imagined validation wouldnt you say?

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Girardi's game strategy also has been questioned internally at times. Management was unhappy that he didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off Olsen. (Howard was intentionally walked twice Saturday.)

 

Ahhh...sweet validation.

 

You think Loria and Samson know anything more about "in game management" than you do?

 

Keep posting, I need the laughs.

Nope, but I'm sure Beinfest does.

 

 

 

Girardi's game strategy also has been questioned internally at times. Management was unhappy that he didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off Olsen. (Howard was intentionally walked twice Saturday.)

 

Ahhh...sweet validation.

 

 

 

:lol

 

Its funny that no one is quoted as saying that in the story.

 

Its just kind of stuck in the article with no origination or credibility.

 

more like imagined validation wouldnt you say?

So, you're assuming that because it isn't a quote that it is untrue that "[m]anagement was unhappy that [Girardi] didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off of Olsen"?

 

Who did you want them to quote? Loria? Samson? Beinfest? Please...let me know, because I'm sure you would have NO skepticism for a quote from an "unnamed source from the FO."

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Girardi's game strategy also has been questioned internally at times. Management was unhappy that he didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off Olsen. (Howard was intentionally walked twice Saturday.)

 

Ahhh...sweet validation.

 

 

 

:lol

 

Its funny that no one is quoted as saying that in the story.

 

Its just kind of stuck in the article with no origination or credibility.

 

more like imagined validation wouldnt you say?

So, you're assuming that because it isn't a quote that it is untrue that "[m]anagement was unhappy that [Girardi] didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off of Olsen"?

 

Who did you want them to quote? Loria? Samson? Beinfest? Please...let me know, because I'm sure you would have NO skepticism for a quote from an "unnamed source from the FO."

 

See, here's the thing about writers.

 

If they quote an "unnamed source," it's probably made up, but maybe true.

 

If they don't use a quote and try to pass that information off as fact, it's just the writer trying to attach his opinion to the power of suggestion, which some infer to be truth from another source that just doesn't exist.

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You think Loria and Samson know anything more about "in game management" than you do?

 

Keep posting, I need the laughs.

 

Nope, but I'm sure Beinfest does

.

 

 

 

You do? Beinfest, who hasn't played the game above the high school level? And nobody says Beinfest made the remark anyway.

 

You continue to be the funniest poster around, albeit unintentionally on your part.

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You think Loria and Samson know anything more about "in game management" than you do?

 

Keep posting, I need the laughs.

 

Nope, but I'm sure Beinfest does

.

 

 

 

You do? Beinfest, who hasn't played the game above the high school level? And nobody says Beinfest made the remark anyway.

 

You continue to be the funniest poster around, albeit unintentionally on your part.

It didn't say Loria or Samson made the remark either. Happy to amuse you.

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I would guess Jeffrey Loria, a lifelong baseball fan who has probably seen more games than me (2,000 +/-) and the owner of three teams with an intimate knowledge of players, their tendencies, their attributes and shortcomings, probably knows more about baseball and managing same, than anyone here.

 

I can't speak to Samson or Beinfest, but Loria is no Ted Turner or Charlie Finley. Like him, loathe him, wanna beat him a baseball bat, he still knows a helluva lot more about the game than any of us give him credit for.

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Girardi's game strategy also has been questioned internally at times. Management was unhappy that he didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off Olsen. (Howard was intentionally walked twice Saturday.)

 

Ahhh...sweet validation.

 

And it is one of the few decisions I had no problem with.

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FWIW, I have been puzzled by many of Girardi?s in-game moves but I think it?s only fair to point out that everything we have heard/read comes from the Marlins. We have not really heard anything from Girardi?s side. He?s been tight-lipped.

 

I still firmly believe this will be a PR hit for the Marlins as Girardi has been generally perceived to be doing a great job. It looks to me like all this information coming out is an attempt to sway that widespread opinion.

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FWIW, I have been puzzled by many of Girardi?s in-game moves but I think it?s only fair to point out that everything we have heard/read comes from the Marlins. We have not really heard anything from Girardi?s side. He?s been tight-lipped.

 

I still firmly believe this will be a PR hit for the Marlins as Girardi has been generally perceived to be doing a great job. It looks to me like all this information coming out is an attempt to sway that widespread opinion.

 

I agree 100%. I think management is trying to torpedo him to sully his reputation to reduce the bad press they get when they get rid of him.

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FWIW, I have been puzzled by many of Girardi?s in-game moves but I think it?s only fair to point out that everything we have heard/read comes from the Marlins. We have not really heard anything from Girardi?s side. He?s been tight-lipped.

 

I still firmly believe this will be a PR hit for the Marlins as Girardi has been generally perceived to be doing a great job. It looks to me like all this information coming out is an attempt to sway that widespread opinion.

 

I agree 100%. I think management is trying to torpedo him to sully his reputation to reduce the bad press they get when they get rid of him.

Well, honestly, I think it would be kind of naive not to wonder why we have recently been reading so many of these previously unheard stories. Whether there is truth to any of them or not they are not suddenly out there for no reason. While it's clearly in Girardi's best interest to take the high road, it still takes a lot of self-control to not lash back.

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Girardi's game strategy also has been questioned internally at times. Management was unhappy that he didn't walk the Phillies' Ryan Howard on Friday during the at-bat in which he hit his second homer off Olsen. (Howard was intentionally walked twice Saturday.)

 

Ahhh...sweet validation.

 

You think Loria and Samson know anything more about "in game management" than you do?

 

Keep posting, I need the laughs.

Do you think it's possible that there are situations that Loria and Samson have a better view and/or idea of the appropriate strategy?

 

As you clearly know, a hands-on relationship can obscure one's vision to certain things.

 

 

Regardless of whether or not you agree with the decisions he makes, he's done/is doing a fantastic job with this team.

 

I'd be shocked if he were let go, for the ramifications for the franchise would be incredibly bad (I'd say unprecedented, but these are the Marlins).

 

 

 

Yes, but isn't that what Lora wants.

 

Haven't there been rumors that he didn't want the team to do well this year, so he could plead with local government to hammer the taxpayers so he can "afford" to put a winner on the field?

 

Didn't he pull similar stunts in Montreal as he destroyed that franchise and drove away the fans so the franchise could be moved to DC as MLB wanted?

 

Isn't that the REAL reason Loria is upset with Girardi, because Girardi has these guys playing way over their heads, undermining Loria's attempt to get taxpayer money for his stadium?

 

I would hate to see Girardi go, but if I were in his shoes, I would bail out of this franchise as fast as I could, with it's one-year wonders, depleted minor league system, and low payroll.

No. Different situation (Montreal was no longer a sufficient MLB market). No.

 

Think about it for a moment. Miami is a solid baseball market. With a stadium it could be a good one. Without one it would be on par with a San Antonio with one (IMO). So it is in Loria's best interests to work out a deal here. But we've gone 10 years and 3 owners in that fight. That's 10 years of politicians who know of the Marlins situation. The whole premise behind the Loria needs to destroy the team to convince them to build a stadium is that the politicians were previously ignorant of the Marlins' woes. That's clearly not the case. So kabloom goes that scenario. Allow me to offer another scenario: After being shot down by the state again and the city, with the county still trying and other cities far far away, Loria says 'okay, we'll see how this plays out.' So he cuts expenses. He demands Beinfest to craft a team that will be both something he can stand watching (and having his name attached to) and cheap enough to maintain until a long-term solution to the stadium issue can be completed. Beinfest then goes out and collects cheap yet talented rookies and prospects.

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IF Giradi wants to win games he should know his role and do whatever the FO tells him to, period.

 

The fact remains, as I said before, that we have not heard one word from Girardi's point of view on all these stories. Maybe that would influence some people's opinions and maybe it wouldn't. The point is that we don't know the other side of this whole conflict.

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http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/15524148.htm

 

Philly article about how the marlins will try to get compensation from the Cubs for Giradi

 

 

The most intriguing situation continues to brew in South Florida where the Marlins have been accused of leaking unflattering stories about NL Manager of the Year candidate Joe Girardi. Example: He supposedly refused to attend a team function in spring training, arguing that it wasn't part of his contract.

 

The bet here is that the Marlins will play it coy, though, in hopes of extracting compensation from the Cubs, the team considered most likely to make a run at Girardi.

 

Chicago will be looking because Dusty Baker had made it pretty plain that he's fed up with the operation at Wrigley Field, and the feeling appears to be mutual.

 

The end of Felipe Alou's tenure in San Francisco seems to be a fait accompli, although it would be interesting to see what happened if the Giants' late rush landed them in the playoffs and Alou announced that he wanted to come back.

 

Meanwhile, in Washington, Frank Robinson has been left dangling by the Nationals. That's nothing new. What has changed is that the franchise now has new ownership, and usually new ownership wants to put its imprint on the team by hiring its own manager.

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