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It really baffles me...


kansukee
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The fact that this team can get so many runners on base,all the time,only to fail to bring them home with a base hit.It does not make any sense at all how they can be so good at getting on base and even better at getting stranded!!!

:banghead

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They get shell shocked. I love it how we score runs in the 9th when we are down by 4/5/6 runs but when we are down by 1/2 runs we roll over and die. Argh.... they need to be smacked.

 

Well this has definitely been a trend that's gone on for the last 2 weeks or so and it's a mistery to me. Maybe they all need to be bitch-slapped back to reality.

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They get shell shocked. I love it how we score runs in the 9th when we are down by 4/5/6 runs but when we are down by 1/2 runs we roll over and die. Argh.... they need to be smacked.

 

Well this has definitely been a trend that's gone on for the last 2 weeks or so and it's a mistery to me. Maybe they all need to be bitch-slapped back to reality.

It's the nature of being an all or nothing team. We broke the team home run record last year and have a similar squad this year.

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The fact that this team can get so many runners on base,all the time,only to fail to bring them home with a base hit.It does not make any sense at all how they can be so good at getting on base and even better at getting stranded!!!

:banghead

 

what is more frustrating to me is not the lack of a clutch hit , it is that the Marlins have had numerous chances to score runs if they could just put the ball in play and make productive outs

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In 95% of cases there is no such thing as a productive out.

 

I would disagree with you (especially the made up and highly exaggerated %) and argue it til the proverbial cows came home. Actually the real cows, the ones that used to be in that field that isn't a field anymore next to the turnpike exit and beside that canal. (The "old time" Marlins fans will know what I am talking about with that.) But I guess it's a matter of opinion.

Can't tell you how many times I am up screaming for a player to stop trying to tie it up or win it on one swing of the bat after the first strike, late in the game or in what looks to be a close, low scoring game from the start. Just hit the ball, put it in play, keep the momentum going. And it seems like Miggy and Hanley are two of the biggest villians of that lately.

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In 95% of cases there is no such thing as a productive out.

 

I would disagree with you (especially the made up and highly exaggerated %) and argue it til the proverbial cows came home. Actually the real cows, the ones that used to be in that field that isn't a field anymore next to the turnpike exit and beside that canal. (The "old time" Marlins fans will know what I am talking about with that.) But I guess it's a matter of opinion.

Can't tell you how many times I am up screaming for a player to stop trying to tie it up or win it on one swing of the bat after the first strike, late in the game or in what looks to be a close, low scoring game from the start. Just hit the ball, put it in play, keep the momentum going. And it seems like Miggy and Hanley are two of the biggest villians of that lately.

 

Well, the way I look at it, you've only got 27 outs a game, so they are extremely valuable, no? So in most cases, there is simply no time when an out is the most desirable outcome. There are times when outs can move a runner over or even score a runner, but they aren't that common. And really, how can we judge a player negatively by saying they want to tie the game or win it on one swing? Thats what we have, people. We have guys who have big swings. If we try to take away that big swing, we take away what makes them effective. You simply aren't going have many nights when you're 4-5 hitters go 0-7 and you win.

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Productive outs are like a "Buy 2 Get 1 Free Sale!". You pay the price but you do have something to show for it. >_>

 

As for our hitters, something needs to be done. It doesn't looks like any of them aside from Hanley, Uggla, and Miggy will actually get on track and do something when they're in a big spot. The problem is that everyone thinks they're a damn Home Run hitter so more often than not, they're swinging for the fences when the game is tied or they're down 1/2 runs when there's really NO NEED for a Home Run swing that'll probably end up in a strike out. (Damn that sentence was long) I mean, every time we've played Extra Innings (And I know you guys all agree with me), everyone takes these big hacks that are just awful. Honestly, I'd rather we start Wood a lot more at 1st and Treanor a lot more behind the plate because they actually do stuff when they're given a chance. Unlike Jacobs, Hermida, Olivo, etc. And at this rate, Hermida could be the next JoBo. XD.

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In 95% of cases there is no such thing as a productive out.

 

Eeeeh, I'm torn.

 

I know what statistics tell you (and generally I agree) but in a game where 4 runs generally wins it a "get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em in" inning once or twice a game really defies statistics to me. I mean, one run on one hit without the benefit of the homerun in the inning does the job for me. Now if every inning was played that way, you're giving away outs, but I think you should restate your assertion to "giving away outs" is not productive. If a team bunts twice or more in a game, it's a waste (generally), and so on and so on.

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In 95% of cases there is no such thing as a productive out.

 

I would disagree with you (especially the made up and highly exaggerated %) and argue it til the proverbial cows came home. Actually the real cows, the ones that used to be in that field that isn't a field anymore next to the turnpike exit and beside that canal. (The "old time" Marlins fans will know what I am talking about with that.) But I guess it's a matter of opinion.

Can't tell you how many times I am up screaming for a player to stop trying to tie it up or win it on one swing of the bat after the first strike, late in the game or in what looks to be a close, low scoring game from the start. Just hit the ball, put it in play, keep the momentum going. And it seems like Miggy and Hanley are two of the biggest villians of that lately.

Well, Cabrera is striking out a lot this season, and I hope he can count the K's down significantly in the 2nd half, but to me, he's one of the few guys on the team who doesn't swing for the fences every at-bat. Actually, he's one of the few guys on this team who has varying swings. Miggy hits better with runners on (.366). Last night, on a 2-strike count with a guy on 2nd, he shortened that swing & bounced the ball to the opposite field for a hit, and there was an at-bat last week where there was a guy on 2nd and no one out, and Miggy hit a lined shot to the second baseman. It was caught, but his approach was correct: go the other way to get the guy to 3rd. This seems to be the rule, rather than the exception, with him.

Now Uggla is a guy who tries to pull the ball in nearly every at-bat (and his batting average shows it). He needs to work on hitting it the opposite way.

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Why do we get guys on base and fail to score so often? Let's see.....

 

1.) Hanley Ramirez- gets on base and is a good hitter.

2.) Dan Uggla- gets on base pretty well, good hitter, great power.

3.) Miguel Cabrera- gets on base, is an excellent hitter, great power.

4.) Mike Jacobs- gets lucky and runs into one every once in a while.

5.) Josh Willingham- can take a walk, average hitter.

6.) Jeremy Hermida- can walk, but an automatic out otherwise.

7.) Miguel Olivo- sucks. Automatic out.

8.) Alfredo Amezaga- Cabrera's boyfiend gets cheap hits, but is an automatic out otherwise.

9.) Pitcher- automatic out.

 

 

Our 1-3 hitters are productive, and get on base well... after them, our 4 and 5 hitters fail to get them in most of the time. And 6 through 9 are gifts from us to the other team's pitcher. we have three guys we can depend on in that lineup, and they usually aren't all going to have great nights all at once.

 

The way the lineup is constructed is retarded. Hermida has not shown the ability to hit for s*it, but has shown that he can walk a little. He isn't very fast, but batting him leadoff would at least allow him to contribute in the one way he possibly can. Amezaga handles the bat well, but has no power at all. I would bat him second so as to give Hermida a chance to be moved over for Cabrera, who I would bat third. Hanley would be a good fourth hitter as he can hit for power and average. Uggla batting behind Hanley as a 5th hitter would be fine since he could come up with more runners on base than he would as the second hitter. jacobs doesn't offer much protection for Uggla, but since I don't believe in "protection" in the lineup much (a good hitter is a good hitter) than that doesn't matter, so I'd bat Jacobs 6th. Willingham can hit 7th with Olivo behind him. And that is that. I don't think that is a powerhouse of a lineup, but it seems to make more sense than the one we roll out there every night that leaves tons of runners stranded and many expletives uttered.

 

1.) hermida

2.) amezaga

3.) Cabrera

4.) Hanley

5.) Uggla

6.) jacobs

7.) Willingham

8.) olivo

9.) automatic out.

 

Don't see how you can argue with that. Some of you with man-crushes on Willingham might want him to bat higher in the order, and if that is the case, he and Jacobs are interchangeable.

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In 95% of cases there is no such thing as a productive out.

 

Eeeeh, I'm torn.

 

I know what statistics tell you (and generally I agree) but in a game where 4 runs generally wins it a "get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em in" inning once or twice a game really defies statistics to me. I mean, one run on one hit without the benefit of the homerun in the inning does the job for me. Now if every inning was played that way, you're giving away outs, but I think you should restate your assertion to "giving away outs" is not productive. If a team bunts twice or more in a game, it's a waste (generally), and so on and so on.

 

Well, thats why there's that 5%. There are still very few times when it's worth it, but for the most part, an automatic out that moves a runner over isn't worth it, generally. I mean, last night went from 1-1 to 6-1 to 6-5 in a blink of an eye, so trying to play "Small ball" when it was a 1-1 wouldn't have done anything. I think for the most part you should save it for when you are down by one in the 9th and you are the home team.

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How is this any different than a few years ago in '05 when we had guys like Delgado, Cabrera, Lo Duca and others and still failed to drive in runs with RISP? There are just some teams who just can't get it done.

 

 

Then again, this team always had a big hit with RISP about this time last year, so yeah it can be a bit frustrating.

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How is this any different than a few years ago in '05 when we had guys like Delgado, Cabrera, Lo Duca and others and still failed to drive in runs with RISP? There are just some teams who just can't get it done.

 

 

Then again, this team always had a big hit with RISP about this time last year, so yeah it can be a bit frustrating.

 

There were 4 above average hitters on that team, and 4 really below average players. That wasn't that great of an offense.

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In 95% of cases there is no such thing as a productive out.

 

Eeeeh, I'm torn.

 

I know what statistics tell you (and generally I agree) but in a game where 4 runs generally wins it a "get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em in" inning once or twice a game really defies statistics to me. I mean, one run on one hit without the benefit of the homerun in the inning does the job for me. Now if every inning was played that way, you're giving away outs, but I think you should restate your assertion to "giving away outs" is not productive. If a team bunts twice or more in a game, it's a waste (generally), and so on and so on.

 

I agree. The "get 'em on, get 'em over, get 'em" inning is really important against good pitchers who are not likely to give up 3 run bombs or a bunch of hits strung together. That is how you win in the playoffs. See, e.g., Marlins 2003 World Series Champion.

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