July 20, 200719 yr Having absolutely nothing to do with tonights performance from Benitez, why did we trade what i believed to be a better younger and cheaper pitcher in Randy Messenger for Armando Benitez?
July 20, 200719 yr Having absolutely nothing to do with tonights performance from Benitez, why did we trade what i believed to be a better younger and cheaper pitcher in Randy Messenger for Armando Benitez? Beinfest was insistent of maintaining his paradigm of having a reclamation project as a closer
July 20, 200719 yr Author Oh..thanks for the reply by the way Randy Messengers stats look like this http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=6330
July 20, 200719 yr Randy Messenger isnt exactly lights out either.... Guy blew a game a couple of night ago
July 20, 200719 yr Trading an average pitcher without much upside for an average pitcher making even less money with possible upside, it makes sense. I didn't like it before because I didn't think Benitez would do any better here and I'd rather have Messenger who has 4 more years of service time after this year and can just be thrown on our AAA team and be an insurance arm, whereas Benitez is gone after the year. Messenger is also known for letting inherited runners score. It's not just here, I remember reading a Giants article awhile ago talking about it. So don't look at his ERA and think omggggg he's amazing. He's rather average. Just like Benitez
July 20, 200719 yr Author :lol the guys with single digit posts only post to bring this crap up. HAHAHAHAHAH :lol
July 20, 200719 yr Doing the math... For the Giants, Messenger has come in with inheriented runners 5 times. 4 of those times, he's allowed a run to score. 8 ER, 5 hits, 1 walk, 7 outs. You add those 8 ER to his ERA and it jumps to 4.93. we gave up nothing special for Benitez, we just need to not use him as our 8th inning guy.
July 20, 200719 yr Doing the math... For the Giants, Messenger has come in with inheriented runners 5 times. 4 of those times, he's allowed a run to score. 8 ER, 5 hits, 1 walk, 7 outs. You add those 8 ER to his ERA and it jumps to 4.93. we gave up nothing special for Benitez, we just need to not use him as our 8th inning guy. He didn't allow those runners who scored to get on so why would you assign all the runs to him? That makes no sense. I would agree if you split the runs between him and the pitcher who allowed them to get on. Do you have a link to where you got the stats?
July 20, 200719 yr Doing the math... For the Giants, Messenger has come in with inheriented runners 5 times. 4 of those times, he's allowed a run to score. 8 ER, 5 hits, 1 walk, 7 outs. You add those 8 ER to his ERA and it jumps to 4.93. we gave up nothing special for Benitez, we just need to not use him as our 8th inning guy. He didn't allow those runners who scored to get on so why would you assign all the runs to him? That makes no sense. I would agree if you split the runs between him and the pitcher who allowed them to get on. Do you have a link to where you got the stats? I did them myself looking at gamelogs.
July 20, 200719 yr both pitchers are meh..but Armando needs to get bumped for someone more consistent
July 20, 200719 yr Doing the math... For the Giants, Messenger has come in with inheriented runners 5 times. 4 of those times, he's allowed a run to score. 8 ER, 5 hits, 1 walk, 7 outs. You add those 8 ER to his ERA and it jumps to 4.93. we gave up nothing special for Benitez, we just need to not use him as our 8th inning guy. He didn't allow those runners who scored to get on so why would you assign all the runs to him? That makes no sense. I would agree if you split the runs between him and the pitcher who allowed them to get on. Do you have a link to where you got the stats? I did them myself looking at gamelogs. I would love a site with that stuff so that's why I asked. His OPS+ Allowed with runners on is 75 which is excellent so I would surprised if he has allowed more inherited runners to score than the average relief pitcher.
July 20, 200719 yr Doing the math... For the Giants, Messenger has come in with inheriented runners 5 times. 4 of those times, he's allowed a run to score. 8 ER, 5 hits, 1 walk, 7 outs. You add those 8 ER to his ERA and it jumps to 4.93. we gave up nothing special for Benitez, we just need to not use him as our 8th inning guy. He didn't allow those runners who scored to get on so why would you assign all the runs to him? That makes no sense. I would agree if you split the runs between him and the pitcher who allowed them to get on. Do you have a link to where you got the stats? I did them myself looking at gamelogs. I would love a site with that stuff so that's why I asked. His OPS+ Allowed with runners on is 75 which is excellent so I would surprised if he has allowed more inherited runners to score than the average relief pitcher. He has a .289/.330 .baa/.obp against though, which is why I'm sure those guys score. It's just a low .slg, which will probably even out eventually. And with RISP it's .319/.382....guys get on at nearly a 40% rate when there's someone in scoring position for him. He's a very hittable pitcher with a bad k ratio.
July 20, 200719 yr Messenger has actually done a great job for the Giants.. Not even looking at the numbers, but just being a Giants fan that watches every game, he has done great. Bochy has spoken very highly of him and has already said he will begin to use him in more high pressure situations. The other night against the Cubs was just bad luck. It was really the first time that Messenger blew a game for the Giants. Aramis Ramirez hit a good pitch that he pretty much dug out of the ground. It happens.. The Cubs have been very hot lately.. But Mess has come in a few times with runners on base and held the other team in check... He also bailed Hennessey out of a jam in a game a week or so ago and picked up a save... Being a fan of both teams, I hate that Benitez is blowing games for the Marlins now, but as a Giants fan, it was an awesome awesome trade.
July 20, 200719 yr I'd make that trade every single time if I am the Marlins. Even after having to watch last night's debacle??
July 20, 200719 yr I'd make that trade every single time if I am the Marlins. Even after having to watch last night's debacle?? yes even after a bad game last night benitez is far better of a player specially with what he has been in the past for us.
July 20, 200719 yr Having absolutely nothing to do with tonights performance from Benitez, why did we trade what i believed to be a better younger and cheaper pitcher in Randy Messenger for Armando Benitez? Because he sucks. In Webster's dictionary next to the term "flat fastball" , there is a picture of Randy Messenger. Messenger can't hold Mando's jock strap
July 20, 200719 yr I'd make that trade every single time if I am the Marlins. Even after having to watch last night's debacle?? Right because one outing is the best barometer for deciding who is the better player.
July 20, 200719 yr I'd make that trade every single time if I am the Marlins. Even after having to watch last night's debacle?? Right because one outing is the best barometer for deciding who is the better player. No, because Benitez has been total crap this year. For the Giants, he couldn't close a semi important game to save his life. Once he has a few bad outings, the rest will follow. It seems like he loses his confidence very easily. He started the year great for the Giants, but after a bad outing or two, he never recovered. After last night's game, I wouldn't be surprised to see more games like that... And I only brought up last night's game as an example. The dude has an ERA of 5.25 for God's sake... Not the 8th inning guy I want.. I'll take Messenger over Benitez.. People here are still thinking of the Benitez of 2004.. That Mando is long gone.
July 20, 200719 yr I'd make that trade every single time if I am the Marlins. Even after having to watch last night's debacle?? Well I didn't catch last night's game... just read about it even so, Armando Benitez absolutely thrived in SoFla his first time around also, when the Marlins acquired him this year, I believe save for 2 straight bad outings before we got him, his era was pretty good (as were his other numbers) Randy Messenger was going to be the odd man out anyway so why not try and get a vet in here who was the best closer in baseball the season he was in teal it's a move you make everyday of the week and twice on sundays
July 20, 200719 yr He's made 20 appearances with the Marlins and has allowed runs in 5 of those outings it just so happens in 2 of them he gave up 8 earned combined
July 20, 200719 yr i like to refer to randy messenger as the "human white flag" skully...does that sound like the description of someone you want pitching on your team? because if you do...we will give you eddy rodriguez and robert andino for matt lincecum
July 20, 200719 yr i like to refer to randy messenger as the "human white flag" skully...does that sound like the description of someone you want pitching on your team? because if you do...we will give you eddy rodriguez and robert andino for matt lincecum Randy Messenger is a much better pitcher than he was when he first came up and it's Tim Lincecum, not Matt
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