March 27, 200818 yr he pitched pretty decent for us last season, i would deffinately take him. Since when does giving up more hits than innings pitched qualify as decent? Not to mention a bloated ERA to go along with 5+ walks per 9 innings. Why does everyone seem to have the misconception that Kim was actually good for us last year? Forget the fact that he was garbage, he was even bad at the one thing everyone says he was useful for, inning eating. How does a guy who barely averaged 5 innings per start for us last year going to protect the young arms? We got nearly the same amount of innings per start out of VandenHurk last year. The numbers don't lie people. Kim isn't the solution to protecting the young arms. If we truly wanted to save the bullpen for the dog days of August and September and protect the up and coming starters, we should have signed Livan when we had the chance. That is somebody who can eat innings, Kim isn't. He gave us 11 quality starts in 19 starts. Sadly, that was better than alot of our starters. Do you know why he only went 6 innings in most of those? Because we were winning those games within 3 runs, a save situation, and Fredi would pass those games on to Gardner, Pinto, Lindstrom, Tankersley, Benitez, and Gregg in the last 3 innings. 9-6 was the best record on our team last year. Maybe that's why we find him decent.
March 27, 200818 yr he pitched pretty decent for us last season, i would deffinately take him. Since when does giving up more hits than innings pitched qualify as decent? Not to mention a bloated ERA to go along with 5+ walks per 9 innings. Why does everyone seem to have the misconception that Kim was actually good for us last year? Forget the fact that he was garbage, he was even bad at the one thing everyone says he was useful for, inning eating. How does a guy who barely averaged 5 innings per start for us last year going to protect the young arms? We got nearly the same amount of innings per start out of VandenHurk last year. The numbers don't lie people. Kim isn't the solution to protecting the young arms. If we truly wanted to save the bullpen for the dog days of August and September and protect the up and coming starters, we should have signed Livan when we had the chance. That is somebody who can eat innings, Kim isn't. Here's the thing - even if he was bad, what is the alternative? Suppose he gives you 120 IP all year. That's 120 IP you're not putting on the pen, or on one of these rookies. And at the end of the year, he can go and we can continue on with the new pitchers having been seasoned but having been strained less, keeping them in better shape for 09. Suppose we put that 120 IP on someone else: Vandenhurk? Miller? Volstad? If you look at the last two seasons, no pitcher who is still on our team not named Scott Olsen logged more IP in one season without coming into or spending most of the following season on the DL. Not just with Kim, but in general, our rotation and maybe even a few arms in the pen really need to be just free agent disposable scrubs to make sure that the good pitching we do have this season doesn't end up on the DL for most of 09. And even with his inconsistency, BK is still capable of coming out, putting up 10Ks and throwing 120+ pitches before he needs to be pulled.
March 27, 200818 yr This has been an interesting thread. Lots of differing opinions, good points on both sides :thumbup Not even sure why I'm saying this except for some reason I feel compelled to.
March 27, 200818 yr he pitched pretty decent for us last season, i would deffinately take him. Since when does giving up more hits than innings pitched qualify as decent? Not to mention a bloated ERA to go along with 5+ walks per 9 innings. Why does everyone seem to have the misconception that Kim was actually good for us last year? Forget the fact that he was garbage, he was even bad at the one thing everyone says he was useful for, inning eating. How does a guy who barely averaged 5 innings per start for us last year going to protect the young arms? We got nearly the same amount of innings per start out of VandenHurk last year. The numbers don't lie people. Kim isn't the solution to protecting the young arms. If we truly wanted to save the bullpen for the dog days of August and September and protect the up and coming starters, we should have signed Livan when we had the chance. That is somebody who can eat innings, Kim isn't. Here's the thing - even if he was bad, what is the alternative? Suppose he gives you 120 IP all year. That's 120 IP you're not putting on the pen, or on one of these rookies. And at the end of the year, he can go and we can continue on with the new pitchers having been seasoned but having been strained less, keeping them in better shape for 09. Suppose we put that 120 IP on someone else: Vandenhurk? Miller? Volstad? If you look at the last two seasons, no pitcher who is still on our team not named Scott Olsen logged more IP in one season without coming into or spending most of the following season on the DL. Not just with Kim, but in general, our rotation and maybe even a few arms in the pen really need to be just free agent disposable scrubs to make sure that the good pitching we do have this season doesn't end up on the DL for most of 09. And even with his inconsistency, BK is still capable of coming out, putting up 10Ks and throwing 120+ pitches before he needs to be pulled. The sorry excuse for innings BK would give us wouldn't otherwise be added to the pen. Assuming he became the fifth starter in the rotation, the starter who would instead be there would throw, at the least, the same amount of innings. VandenHurk and Miller wouldn't be the ones to take on the extra innings because they are both projected as having their own rotation spots to start the season. Not to mention Nolasco will become the fifth starter on April 13th, which would mean he would be the one to assume those innings. If VandenHurk and Nolasco stay healthy until the return of Anibel and Mitre (assuming they replace the 2 worst starters), there should be no reason to bring up any young arms to eat innings. Notice how Kim doesn't fit into any of this. If the rotation suffers setbacks (injuries or someone stinks it up) before the return of Sanchez and Mitre, then we would need someone to eat innings. Any of the previously mentioned guys on this thread could come up and do that with argueably more effectiveness and for less money than Kim. Sure he can throw 120+ pitches, but how many innings does that translate into when you're throwing 25-30 pitches per inning?
March 27, 200818 yr it's too bad he wouldn't accept a pen assignment. using him as a RHB specialist would tits
March 27, 200818 yr The sorry excuse for innings BK would give us wouldn't otherwise be added to the pen. Assuming he became the fifth starter in the rotation, the starter who would instead be there would throw, at the least, the same amount of innings. VandenHurk and Miller wouldn't be the ones to take on the extra innings because they are both projected as having their own rotation spots to start the season. Not to mention Nolasco will become the fifth starter on April 13th, which would mean he would be the one to assume those innings. If VandenHurk and Nolasco stay healthy until the return of Anibel and Mitre (assuming they replace the 2 worst starters), there should be no reason to bring up any young arms to eat innings. Notice how Kim doesn't fit into any of this. If the rotation suffers setbacks (injuries or someone stinks it up) before the return of Sanchez and Mitre, then we would need someone to eat innings. Any of the previously mentioned guys on this thread could come up and do that with argueably more effectiveness and for less money than Kim. Sure he can throw 120+ pitches, but how many innings does that translate into when you're throwing 25-30 pitches per inning? Whatever dude. Fine. If you want to eat innings with a bunch of guys coming from the minors and you expect both that they will do as well as Kim and that they will be healthy through to next year, good luck with that.
March 27, 200818 yr using him as a RHB specialist would tits Would what? :lol I believe he means "be tits" Cartman used to say it a few seasons ago...it actually elicited almost the exact same response.
March 27, 200818 yr Indeed, a guy who throws 100+ pitches in five innings is most desirable. dont forget the 10 Ks in those 5 innnings, and the fact that whatever goes wrong with him really won't affect us beyond this season (assuming we would again, do a 1 year deal), as opposed to the consequences of breaking one of the cheaper arms.
March 27, 200818 yr Indeed, a guy who throws 100+ pitches in five innings is most desirable. dont forget the 10 Ks in those 5 innnings, and the fact that whatever goes wrong with him really won't affect us beyond this season (assuming we would again, do a 1 year deal), as opposed to the consequences of breaking one of the cheaper arms. Strikeouts mean absolutely nothing. I don't care if he K's 15 batters in those 5 innings, it just means more pitches and less double plays. The fact that you are suggesting that his ability to strike out guys makes up for his inability to get through innings seems illogical. I don't see the point in arguing this any further. Bottom line is Kim is garbage and if we wanted someone to go out there and throw 4 crappy innings the FO would be scouting my 14 year-old sister. Look at the logistics, it makes absolutely no sense to sign Kim for more money and less talent than half our minor league throw-away guys.
March 27, 200818 yr If he's cheap, it couldn't hurt us. If he has control issues, just send him down. I think there's a chance we might get him since last season, after releasing him, we got him back.
March 27, 200818 yr it makes absolutely no sense to sign Kim for more money and less talent than half our minor league throw-away guys. You'd have me if not for saying something like this. I've not come out here and said that Kim will save our rotation, pick up 15 wins, or even pitch 200 innings. But he is a guy you can throw out there and unlike pretty much everyone else in our rotation this year, you won't have to worry about protecting his arm. And for as bad as he is, just on experience you cannot compare him our "minor league throw-away guys". You slot one of those into the rotation and you might as well watch some videos of Logan Kensing's MLB starts from 2005.
March 27, 200818 yr I like the guy and I've said so above but the Pirates didn't sign him with the intention of cutting him because they need pitching like everyone so the logical conclusion has to be something is wrong. What, I have no idea. In a perfect world he'd come in, give a 4.50 for the season and a dozen quality starts, the birds would sing, all would be right with the world and some kid in the minors didn't blow out his arm because he was rushed to the bigs. Somehow I don't see things playing out that way. I love watching Kim pitch. I love the facial expressions on the mound. I just don't know if he's got anything left in the tank.
March 27, 200818 yr it makes absolutely no sense to sign Kim for more money and less talent than half our minor league throw-away guys. You'd have me if not for saying something like this. I've not come out here and said that Kim will save our rotation, pick up 15 wins, or even pitch 200 innings. But he is a guy you can throw out there and unlike pretty much everyone else in our rotation this year, you won't have to worry about protecting his arm. And for as bad as he is, just on experience you cannot compare him our "minor league throw-away guys". You slot one of those into the rotation and you might as well watch some videos of Logan Kensing's MLB starts from 2005. the problem with your arguement is that...these guys already have a lot of innings under their belt. Seddon has pitched atleast 130 inn each year since 2003. He pitched 157 last year. He can go 180 IP np. Barone pitched 140 inn in 2006 and 177 last year. He's good. Waecther was injured last year but has pitched over 130 IP all but two year sinces 2001 (last year, 62, and 2004, 99), and three of those years he pitched over 160 IP these guys already have the inn, there is no "protecting" them like a Volstad or a Gaby.
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