I disagree that Uggla is a below average defensive second baseman. He was above average in 06, and average in 07 by most metrics.

Neutral 2006, -12 2007

I'd like to find some of those people who said last winter and this spring Andino couldn't play at the major league level. :brigginbounce.

 

That said, the league will figure him out but in the meantime it's fun to watch. And maybe he'll learn to make a few adjustments of his own.

 

 

I said it and I want to see what he does after he makes his adjustments.

 

But if I am wrong it is a good thing to be wrong on

I disagree that Uggla is a below average defensive second baseman. He was above average in 06, and average in 07 by most metrics.

Neutral 2006, -12 2007

 

Based on what?

I disagree that Uggla is a below average defensive second baseman. He was above average in 06, and average in 07 by most metrics.

Neutral 2006, -12 2007

 

Based on what?

I went looking for it, but I couldn't find it. I know NNY know where it is. It's the typical range factors/LWZR/OOZ. It showed Uggla as defensive neutral in 2006, and about -12 in 2007.

I disagree that Uggla is a below average defensive second baseman. He was above average in 06, and average in 07 by most metrics.

Neutral 2006, -12 2007

 

Based on what?

I went looking for it, but I couldn't find it. I know NNY know where it is. It's the typical range factors/LWZR/OOZ. It showed Uggla as defensive neutral in 2006, and about -12 in 2007.

 

BP's metric has him as a plus defender both years.

I'd like to find some of those people who said last winter and this spring Andino couldn't play at the major league level. :brigginbounce.

 

That said, the league will figure him out but in the meantime it's fun to watch. And maybe he'll learn to make a few adjustments of his own.

 

Couldn't "play" at the major league level? I don't remember anyone saying that. Can't handle ML pitchers is what I have been hearing, and agreed with. The times I saw him in ST was the same thing. Now all of a sudden he is hitting like this? Everyone seems to think some sort of light went off in his head and NOW he can handle ML pitchers. Sorry, I don't agree. I don't think 5 ABs in a new season is anyway to predict he is the next big bat and time to give him a full time job.

 

Supposedly he can play a decent CF as well. I really wouldn't mind seeing him sent down to work at other positions. He could be a very valuable player off the bench in the future. But for now ride that hot bat. When it cools off then send him down, bring Carroll back up and let The Amazing be the IF bench player. It could be a win/win situation. However, if he is able to keep his numbers up then I will gladly be the first to say I was wrong about his bat.

I suppose he should come in late at 3B a few more times at least. I mean how much has the guy actually played there?

 

That said, I think it will be hard to send down a guy hitting as well as he is now. I hope the team finds a spot for him, but for any long-term starting position he's gonna need to go somewhere new. Unless we were to do something crazy like push Hanley over to 3B and play Andino at SS. Back when Hanley was in the Red Sox org people expected that as got bigger he would move over to 3B eventually. Just a thought.

 

To answer how many games Andino played 3B. Here is his position breakdown.

Minor League Games Played By Position

Year C 1B 2B 3B SS OF

2005 0 0 0 0 127 0

Major League Games Played By Position

Year C 1B 2B 3B SS OF LF CF RF DH

2007 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0

2008 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0

 

As for the Red Sox moving Hanley you are right. In 2005 the Red Sox signed Edger Renterria or who Red Sox Nation called Rental Reck to play SS so there was talk about moving him to 2B or 3B. Instead they sent him to AA Portland. Then in the winter we all know what happened. The big Hanley, Anibal and I think an other player for Becket, Mota and Lowell trade. Which is the reason I'm now a fan of the Fish. Was really pissed off when the Sox traded Hanley. As much as I really don't like Beckett the Sox couldn't have won the World Series in "07" without him. The throw in (Lowell) was pretty awesome to. You think the Fish would trade Hanley back to Boston. LOL JK He wouldn't be 1/4 of the player in Boston as he is in Fla. Getting traded to Fla. was the best move for him.

You think the Fish would trade Hanley back to Boston. LOL JK He wouldn't be 1/4 of the player in Boston as he is in Fla. Getting traded to Fla. was the best move for him.

 

Hanley wouldn't be 1/4th the player he is if he was on the Red Sox? If he was on the Boston, he would be a baseball demigod.

You think the Fish would trade Hanley back to Boston. LOL JK He wouldn't be 1/4 of the player in Boston as he is in Fla. Getting traded to Fla. was the best move for him.

 

Hanley wouldn't be 1/4th the player he is if he was on the Red Sox? If he was on the Boston, he would be a baseball demigod.

 

You are right in a way. But I don't think he would be what he is now(meaning this point in time) if he didn't get traded. It would have taken him longer to get were he is if he was in beantown. We (fans and media) are alot harder on our athletes then alot of markets. But you are right we would love him. We would just still be waiting to see what you already have.

I'd like to find some of those people who said last winter and this spring Andino couldn't play at the major league level. :brigginbounce.

 

That said, the league will figure him out but in the meantime it's fun to watch. And maybe he'll learn to make a few adjustments of his own.

 

Couldn't "play" at the major league level? I don't remember anyone saying that. Can't handle ML pitchers is what I have been hearing, and agreed with. The times I saw him in ST was the same thing. Now all of a sudden he is hitting like this? Everyone seems to think some sort of light went off in his head and NOW he can handle ML pitchers. Sorry, I don't agree. I don't think 5 ABs in a new season is anyway to predict he is the next big bat and time to give him a full time job.

 

Supposedly he can play a decent CF as well. I really wouldn't mind seeing him sent down to work at other positions. He could be a very valuable player off the bench in the future. But for now ride that hot bat. When it cools off then send him down, bring Carroll back up and let The Amazing be the IF bench player. It could be a win/win situation. However, if he is able to keep his numbers up then I will gladly be the first to say I was wrong about his bat.

 

Andino's solid year in AAA last year, which was far better than what he had ever done with the bat, shows that he may have figured some things out. That doesn't mean that he will be a superstar, but it is not too much to think that he may be capable of having a quality bat. Even Tommy said that Andino may have figured some things out last night.

You think the Fish would trade Hanley back to Boston. LOL JK He wouldn't be 1/4 of the player in Boston as he is in Fla. Getting traded to Fla. was the best move for him.

 

Hanley wouldn't be 1/4th the player he is if he was on the Red Sox? If he was on the Boston, he would be a baseball demigod.

 

You are right in a way. But I don't think he would be what he is now(meaning this point in time) if he didn't get traded. It would have taken him longer to get were he is if he was in beantown. We (fans and media) are alot harder on our athletes then alot of markets. But you are right we would love him. We would just still be waiting to see what you already have.

With the way you guys treat Jacoby, and how Pedroia was treated last year, Hanley would have a statue by now.

I disagree that Uggla is a below average defensive second baseman. He was above average in 06, and average in 07 by most metrics.

Neutral 2006, -12 2007

 

Based on what?

I went looking for it, but I couldn't find it. I know NNY know where it is. It's the typical range factors/LWZR/OOZ. It showed Uggla as defensive neutral in 2006, and about -12 in 2007.

 

BP's metric has him as a plus defender both years.

 

 

And BP's metric is the most retarded feilding stat of all time, even more retarded than fielding percent.

 

all good fielding metrics show that uggla was neutral in '06 and one of the worst in '07

You think the Fish would trade Hanley back to Boston. LOL JK He wouldn't be 1/4 of the player in Boston as he is in Fla. Getting traded to Fla. was the best move for him.

 

Hanley wouldn't be 1/4th the player he is if he was on the Red Sox? If he was on the Boston, he would be a baseball demigod.

 

You are right in a way. But I don't think he would be what he is now(meaning this point in time) if he didn't get traded. It would have taken him longer to get were he is if he was in beantown. We (fans and media) are alot harder on our athletes then alot of markets. But you are right we would love him. We would just still be waiting to see what you already have.

With the way you guys treat Jacoby, and how Pedroia was treated last year, Hanley would have a statue by now.

 

LOL Maybe. He would be a fan favorite along with Jacoby, Pedroia, Manny, Pap, Papi and maybe Youk. With that said I still think if the Sox didn't make the trade he wouldn't have started the year in 05 in the bigs. He would have played for the PawSox for most of the year and not come up till 06 to be a starter. Hints when I said we would still be waiting for what you guys have already seen. You guys have got to see him play for 2 full seasons. If he wasn't traded we would have seen him play maybe a season and a half. So he wouldn't be anywhere close to were he is in his career if he was still here. He got a head start going to Fla. He is a much different player now than he was when the Sox traded him. We knew what he could be. Didn't know how long it was gong to take him to get there. However we didn't know he was going to be able to hit 29 hr's in a season. Since he only hit 20 in his 4 years between A and AA. I think he could take the Boston fans and media at this point in his career if he was traded to us tomorrow. Only because of the head start he got. But I don't think he could have then. Remember you go a AA player in the winter of 05. As for Jacoby. Most of the fans that are sold on him are female. LOL He had a great World Series but I think alot of us would like to see him do that for a full season before the male fans start cheering for him.

And BP's metric is the most retarded feilding stat of all time, even more retarded than fielding percent.

 

all good fielding metrics show that uggla was neutral in '06 and one of the worst in '07

 

There are no good fielding metrics.

You think the Fish would trade Hanley back to Boston. LOL JK He wouldn't be 1/4 of the player in Boston as he is in Fla. Getting traded to Fla. was the best move for him.

 

Hanley wouldn't be 1/4th the player he is if he was on the Red Sox? If he was on the Boston, he would be a baseball demigod.

 

You are right in a way. But I don't think he would be what he is now(meaning this point in time) if he didn't get traded. It would have taken him longer to get were he is if he was in beantown. We (fans and media) are alot harder on our athletes then alot of markets. But you are right we would love him. We would just still be waiting to see what you already have.

With the way you guys treat Jacoby, and how Pedroia was treated last year, Hanley would have a statue by now.

 

LOL Maybe. He would be a fan favorite along with Jacoby, Pedroia, Manny, Pap, Papi and maybe Youk. With that said I still think if the Sox didn't make the trade he wouldn't have started the year in 05 in the bigs. He would have played for the PawSox for most of the year and not come up till 06 to be a starter. Hints when I said we would still be waiting for what you guys have already seen. You guys have got to see him play for 2 full seasons. If he wasn't traded we would have seen him play maybe a season and a half. So he wouldn't be anywhere close to were he is in his career if he was still here. He got a head start going to Fla. He is a much different player now than he was when the Sox traded him. We knew what he could be. Didn't know how long it was gong to take him to get there. However we didn't know he was going to be able to hit 29 hr's in a season. Since he only hit 20 in his 4 years between A and AA. I think he could take the Boston fans and media at this point in his career if he was traded to us tomorrow. Only because of the head start he got. But I don't think he could have then. Remember you go a AA player in the winter of 05. As for Jacoby. Most of the fans that are sold on him are female. LOL He had a great World Series but I think alot of us would like to see him do that for a full season before the male fans start cheering for him.

 

You're absolutely right. I really think Hanley may have struggled a lot in Boston. He does best when he is free to go out there and play his game and in Boston he would have faced a different type of pressure than he has in Florida. His struggles last year in the third spot are a good example of the fact that he is a guy who does better when the pressure isn't on.

Somehow I think that the pressure of the media/fans in Boston wouldn't have crushed little 'ol Hanley. While the pressure might not be on too much when it comes to local media/fans, he has gotten a good deal of the national spotlight during his ROTY campaign and with the questions on who is the best young shortstop around. But maybe you are right, but that's ok. We'll keep him. :thumbup

You think the Fish would trade Hanley back to Boston. LOL JK He wouldn't be 1/4 of the player in Boston as he is in Fla. Getting traded to Fla. was the best move for him.

 

Hanley wouldn't be 1/4th the player he is if he was on the Red Sox? If he was on the Boston, he would be a baseball demigod.

 

You are right in a way. But I don't think he would be what he is now(meaning this point in time) if he didn't get traded. It would have taken him longer to get were he is if he was in beantown. We (fans and media) are alot harder on our athletes then alot of markets. But you are right we would love him. We would just still be waiting to see what you already have.

With the way you guys treat Jacoby, and how Pedroia was treated last year, Hanley would have a statue by now.

 

LOL Maybe. He would be a fan favorite along with Jacoby, Pedroia, Manny, Pap, Papi and maybe Youk. With that said I still think if the Sox didn't make the trade he wouldn't have started the year in 05 in the bigs. He would have played for the PawSox for most of the year and not come up till 06 to be a starter. Hints when I said we would still be waiting for what you guys have already seen. You guys have got to see him play for 2 full seasons. If he wasn't traded we would have seen him play maybe a season and a half. So he wouldn't be anywhere close to were he is in his career if he was still here. He got a head start going to Fla. He is a much different player now than he was when the Sox traded him. We knew what he could be. Didn't know how long it was gong to take him to get there. However we didn't know he was going to be able to hit 29 hr's in a season. Since he only hit 20 in his 4 years between A and AA. I think he could take the Boston fans and media at this point in his career if he was traded to us tomorrow. Only because of the head start he got. But I don't think he could have then. Remember you go a AA player in the winter of 05. As for Jacoby. Most of the fans that are sold on him are female. LOL He had a great World Series but I think alot of us would like to see him do that for a full season before the male fans start cheering for him.

 

You're absolutely right. I really think Hanley may have struggled a lot in Boston. He does best when he is free to go out there and play his game and in Boston he would have faced a different type of pressure than he has in Florida. His struggles last year in the third spot are a good example of the fact that he is a guy who does better when the pressure isn't on.

Hitting .291 in the 3rd spot is hardly struggling.

You're absolutely right. I really think Hanley may have struggled a lot in Boston. He does best when he is free to go out there and play his game and in Boston he would have faced a different type of pressure than he has in Florida. His struggles last year in the third spot are a good example of the fact that he is a guy who does better when the pressure isn't on.

I wish all our hitters would "struggle" like that

And BP's metric is the most retarded feilding stat of all time, even more retarded than fielding percent.

 

all good fielding metrics show that uggla was neutral in '06 and one of the worst in '07

 

And why is that?

I think Uggla's rating is proof enough.

[

Andino's solid year in AAA last year, which was far better than what he had ever done with the bat, shows that he may have figured some things out. That doesn't mean that he will be a superstar, but it is not too much to think that he may be capable of having a quality bat. Even Tommy said that Andino may have figured some things out last night.

 

And hopefully you all are right. I just go by what I saw in ST. He looked like the same-o same-0 Andino. Just can't see how things could have clicked for him from the end of ST to his first AB in the regular season. 5 ABs, I'll hold off naming him a permanent fixture on the team for now.

I think Uggla's rating is proof enough.

What were Uggla's +/- ratings in '06 and '07... do you know?

07 he was -19 (Worst)

 

06 I'm not positive, but I know that he was at worst -9 (I get that by the fact that the top-5 worst defensive 2B's from 05-07 were displayed, and #5 was -29...so, if uggla was -10 or higher, he would have shown up on the list)

07 he was -19 (Worst)

 

06 I'm not positive, but I know that he was at worst -9 (I get that by the fact that the top-5 worst defensive 2B's from 05-07 were displayed, and #5 was -29...so, if uggla was -10 or higher, he would have shown up on the list)

When we had that Amezaga discussion, you said Uggla was neutral/0 and below average/-12 I believe. Why is there a migration to -19 now?

You think the Fish would trade Hanley back to Boston. LOL JK He wouldn't be 1/4 of the player in Boston as he is in Fla. Getting traded to Fla. was the best move for him.

 

Hanley wouldn't be 1/4th the player he is if he was on the Red Sox? If he was on the Boston, he would be a baseball demigod.

 

You are right in a way. But I don't think he would be what he is now(meaning this point in time) if he didn't get traded. It would have taken him longer to get were he is if he was in beantown. We (fans and media) are alot harder on our athletes then alot of markets. But you are right we would love him. We would just still be waiting to see what you already have.

With the way you guys treat Jacoby, and how Pedroia was treated last year, Hanley would have a statue by now.

 

LOL Maybe. He would be a fan favorite along with Jacoby, Pedroia, Manny, Pap, Papi and maybe Youk. With that said I still think if the Sox didn't make the trade he wouldn't have started the year in 05 in the bigs. He would have played for the PawSox for most of the year and not come up till 06 to be a starter. Hints when I said we would still be waiting for what you guys have already seen. You guys have got to see him play for 2 full seasons. If he wasn't traded we would have seen him play maybe a season and a half. So he wouldn't be anywhere close to were he is in his career if he was still here. He got a head start going to Fla. He is a much different player now than he was when the Sox traded him. We knew what he could be. Didn't know how long it was gong to take him to get there. However we didn't know he was going to be able to hit 29 hr's in a season. Since he only hit 20 in his 4 years between A and AA. I think he could take the Boston fans and media at this point in his career if he was traded to us tomorrow. Only because of the head start he got. But I don't think he could have then. Remember you go a AA player in the winter of 05. As for Jacoby. Most of the fans that are sold on him are female. LOL He had a great World Series but I think alot of us would like to see him do that for a full season before the male fans start cheering for him.

Just to add something... Son, Hanley would be the best hitter on your whole damned lineup... Well, that plays the field.