OMG, he ONLY made ONE questionable / bad decision.

 

He didn't bring in his closer for the 9th inning.

 

Big whoop...Fredi doesn't have a bat in his hands; these are professional players...they went 1-10 with .RISP today.

 

I said it last night, while everyone was going goo-goo-gaa-gaa over the win.

The hitters were terrible last night, and 9x out of 10, when you play like that, you lose. Well, they did it today again...and lost.

 

I really didn't have a problem with that. Nelson has been pretty much lights out and was well rested But I see your point there. Either way would have been okay with me. Flip a coin type thing.

 

I thought we had the game in the 9th. But not with Hanley. His numbers with RISP are just terrible. Worse than terrible. But with Hermida's 4 Ks on the night and no better option on the bench Hanley was the right option there. However, when you have bases loaded, 1 out, and Cantu and Hammer (who is hitting very well right now) coming to the plate you have to figure at the very least extra innings.

OMG, he ONLY made ONE questionable / bad decision.

 

He didn't bring in his closer for the 9th inning.

 

Big whoop...Fredi doesn't have a bat in his hands; these are professional players...they went 1-10 with .RISP today.

 

I said it last night, while everyone was going goo-goo-gaa-gaa over the win.

The hitters were terrible last night, and 9x out of 10, when you play like that, you lose. Well, they did it today again...and lost.

 

 

Scott in the 6th after only allowing 1 hit and being under 100 pitches.... he needs to go back out for the 7th...

 

If you want Rhodes to come in and pitch and he strikes out 1 guy, dont go to Pinto unless you need to pinch hit for Rhodes.. instead he just brought pinto in..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this one is questionable... but with the bases loaded, Cantu at bat, down by 1 run in the bottom of the 9th with less than 2 outs... im putting the suicide squeeze on 99.9% of the time...

 

Hot day. Scotty sweats profusely which means the heat gets to him. Bases loaded and you have a veteran hitter on the bench that understands how to get the job done. 2-0 game with neither team hitting well. Right choice. Just didn't work. Now, if it had been 1 out instead of 2 my guess is you see Scotty out there.

 

Pinto had a rare bad game. Hit batter and the error. No way to forsee that when you are trying to get a hold to bring your closer in for the 9th. It was still a 2-1 game at that time and Pinto usually will get the hold.

 

Take the bat out of the hands of what may be your best clutch hitter in Cantu, who was 2 for 4 at the time, for a bunt?? It may have surprised the Rox, but it would have surprised me even more if Cantu had been able to lay one down.

 

Nope. Bad hitting cost us this game not poor managing. Plain and simple.

Waechter threw Holliday a meatball on a 0-2 pitch, yet no one talked about that either. That's just bad pitching there, to even give him something to hit in that situation.

 

This is his 5th year in the bigs. Up against one of the best hitters in the NL right now. On a very hot and humid day. On an 0-2 count if you think that pitch went where he actually wanted it to go then you must also think Pinto meant to hit that batter and commit that error.

OMG, he ONLY made ONE questionable / bad decision.

 

He didn't bring in his closer for the 9th inning.

 

Big whoop...Fredi doesn't have a bat in his hands; these are professional players...they went 1-10 with .RISP today.

 

I said it last night, while everyone was going goo-goo-gaa-gaa over the win.

The hitters were terrible last night, and 9x out of 10, when you play like that, you lose. Well, they did it today again...and lost.

 

 

Scott in the 6th after only allowing 1 hit and being under 100 pitches.... he needs to go back out for the 7th...

 

If you want Rhodes to come in and pitch and he strikes out 1 guy, dont go to Pinto unless you need to pinch hit for Rhodes.. instead he just brought pinto in..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this one is questionable... but with the bases loaded, Cantu at bat, down by 1 run in the bottom of the 9th with less than 2 outs... im putting the suicide squeeze on 99.9% of the time...

Cantu can't bunt.

 

He's tried to put the sacrifice bunt 3 times in his major league career, all in 2005.

 

Once it was left right in front of the catcher, who threw it to 2nd base for the failed sac and twice it was bunted right back to the pitcher, who threw it to 2B for the failed sac.

 

Thanks for being right on top of things Rab. I was going to ask this question because i couldn't remember Cantu bunting at all this year.

 

People that look at things AFTER the fact and then complain that things didn't work out are the same ones that won't say a word when things do work out. Why don't they come in here saying that just because it worked dosen't mean it was the right decision. It was a heartbreaker of a loss. But it was because of the hitters. Ooops. I should say non-hitters. And right at the top of that list would be Cody. But seeing he is a board fav we are going to ignore his .121 BA over the last 10 games and the last time he got a ribbie was thru a very rare walk. It may be a good thing they are going on the road. Maybe that CO-DY chant is distracting him.

OMG, he ONLY made ONE questionable / bad decision.

 

He didn't bring in his closer for the 9th inning.

 

Big whoop...Fredi doesn't have a bat in his hands; these are professional players...they went 1-10 with .RISP today.

 

I said it last night, while everyone was going goo-goo-gaa-gaa over the win.

The hitters were terrible last night, and 9x out of 10, when you play like that, you lose. Well, they did it today again...and lost.

 

 

Scott in the 6th after only allowing 1 hit and being under 100 pitches.... he needs to go back out for the 7th...

 

If you want Rhodes to come in and pitch and he strikes out 1 guy, dont go to Pinto unless you need to pinch hit for Rhodes.. instead he just brought pinto in..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this one is questionable... but with the bases loaded, Cantu at bat, down by 1 run in the bottom of the 9th with less than 2 outs... im putting the suicide squeeze on 99.9% of the time...

 

If the bases are loaded, you are up by 2 runs, you're pitcher(who was at 93 pitches) is coming up, and you're struggling for runs, you have to use a pinch hitter. And you dont do a suicide squeeze in the ninth inning, bases loaded, one out with one of your best hitters up.

 

The reason why I agree w/ the orignal post, and said to my dad "suicide squeeze" is for the exact reason stated above: we had one of our best hitters on, and Helms at 3rd. Everyone expected Jorge to be swinging for the fences, or at least try to get it deep enough for the sack fly. The rockies had the shift on, and were playing deep. If he had laid down the bunt to the right side, Helms WOULD HAVE made it despite being less than fleet-footed.

 

Then, the score would at least have been tied and we would have gone into Extra Innings when Willingham flyed out. With the hitters struggling in the game (and for the most part, the series), you have to be conservative and go for at least the tie and extra innings in that situation.

OMG, he ONLY made ONE questionable / bad decision.

 

He didn't bring in his closer for the 9th inning.

 

Big whoop...Fredi doesn't have a bat in his hands; these are professional players...they went 1-10 with .RISP today.

 

I said it last night, while everyone was going goo-goo-gaa-gaa over the win.

The hitters were terrible last night, and 9x out of 10, when you play like that, you lose. Well, they did it today again...and lost.

 

 

Scott in the 6th after only allowing 1 hit and being under 100 pitches.... he needs to go back out for the 7th...

 

If you want Rhodes to come in and pitch and he strikes out 1 guy, dont go to Pinto unless you need to pinch hit for Rhodes.. instead he just brought pinto in..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this one is questionable... but with the bases loaded, Cantu at bat, down by 1 run in the bottom of the 9th with less than 2 outs... im putting the suicide squeeze on 99.9% of the time...

 

If the bases are loaded, you are up by 2 runs, you're pitcher(who was at 93 pitches) is coming up, and you're struggling for runs, you have to use a pinch hitter. And you dont do a suicide squeeze in the ninth inning, bases loaded, one out with one of your best hitters up.

 

The reason why I agree w/ the orignal post, and said to my dad "suicide squeeze" is for the exact reason stated above: we had one of our best hitters on, and Helms at 3rd. Everyone expected Jorge to be swinging for the fences, or at least try to get it deep enough for the sack fly. The rockies had the shift on, and were playing deep. If he had laid down the bunt to the right side, Helms WOULD HAVE made it despite being less than fleet-footed.

 

Then, the score would at least have been tied and we would have gone into Extra Innings when Willingham flyed out. With the hitters struggling in the game (and for the most part, the series), you have to be conservative and go for at least the tie and extra innings in that situation.

 

Cantu is one of our hottest hitters as of late

OMG, he ONLY made ONE questionable / bad decision.

 

He didn't bring in his closer for the 9th inning.

 

Big whoop...Fredi doesn't have a bat in his hands; these are professional players...they went 1-10 with .RISP today.

 

I said it last night, while everyone was going goo-goo-gaa-gaa over the win.

The hitters were terrible last night, and 9x out of 10, when you play like that, you lose. Well, they did it today again...and lost.

 

 

Scott in the 6th after only allowing 1 hit and being under 100 pitches.... he needs to go back out for the 7th...

 

If you want Rhodes to come in and pitch and he strikes out 1 guy, dont go to Pinto unless you need to pinch hit for Rhodes.. instead he just brought pinto in..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this one is questionable... but with the bases loaded, Cantu at bat, down by 1 run in the bottom of the 9th with less than 2 outs... im putting the suicide squeeze on 99.9% of the time...

 

If the bases are loaded, you are up by 2 runs, you're pitcher(who was at 93 pitches) is coming up, and you're struggling for runs, you have to use a pinch hitter. And you dont do a suicide squeeze in the ninth inning, bases loaded, one out with one of your best hitters up.

 

The reason why I agree w/ the orignal post, and said to my dad "suicide squeeze" is for the exact reason stated above: we had one of our best hitters on, and Helms at 3rd. Everyone expected Jorge to be swinging for the fences, or at least try to get it deep enough for the sack fly. The rockies had the shift on, and were playing deep. If he had laid down the bunt to the right side, Helms WOULD HAVE made it despite being less than fleet-footed.

 

Then, the score would at least have been tied and we would have gone into Extra Innings when Willingham flyed out. With the hitters struggling in the game (and for the most part, the series), you have to be conservative and go for at least the tie and extra innings in that situation.

:banana

 

somebody agreed with me.

HAHAHAHAHA this is funny...

 

 

Oh btw I dont mean to point this out, but...

 

 

The Cardinals did the same thing tonight, tried to win it/tie it like we did in the bottom of the 9th tonight against the phillies... didnt work for them either....did it?

 

 

The difference is, the Cardinals had two crap hitters coming up, while we had our 3 & 4 hitters coming up. If you're bunting with your 3 & 4 hitters, you're not showing much confidence in your guys (guys that have come up with plenty of clutch hits, before).

 

They (Cantu, Willingham) didn't get it done. That's not Fredi's fault. There's a point and time to blame the manager. I don't see how you blame him for not bunting with the 3rd hitter. I personally would've been pissed, if he would've called for a suicide squeeze, with the one guy who's been amazing with .RISP this year, on the team.

OMG, he ONLY made ONE questionable / bad decision.

 

He didn't bring in his closer for the 9th inning.

 

Big whoop...Fredi doesn't have a bat in his hands; these are professional players...they went 1-10 with .RISP today.

 

I said it last night, while everyone was going goo-goo-gaa-gaa over the win.

The hitters were terrible last night, and 9x out of 10, when you play like that, you lose. Well, they did it today again...and lost.

 

 

Scott in the 6th after only allowing 1 hit and being under 100 pitches.... he needs to go back out for the 7th...

 

If you want Rhodes to come in and pitch and he strikes out 1 guy, dont go to Pinto unless you need to pinch hit for Rhodes.. instead he just brought pinto in..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now this one is questionable... but with the bases loaded, Cantu at bat, down by 1 run in the bottom of the 9th with less than 2 outs... im putting the suicide squeeze on 99.9% of the time...

 

If the bases are loaded, you are up by 2 runs, you're pitcher(who was at 93 pitches) is coming up, and you're struggling for runs, you have to use a pinch hitter. And you dont do a suicide squeeze in the ninth inning, bases loaded, one out with one of your best hitters up.

 

The reason why I agree w/ the orignal post, and said to my dad "suicide squeeze" is for the exact reason stated above: we had one of our best hitters on, and Helms at 3rd. Everyone expected Jorge to be swinging for the fences, or at least try to get it deep enough for the sack fly. The rockies had the shift on, and were playing deep. If he had laid down the bunt to the right side, Helms WOULD HAVE made it despite being less than fleet-footed.

 

Then, the score would at least have been tied and we would have gone into Extra Innings when Willingham flyed out. With the hitters struggling in the game (and for the most part, the series), you have to be conservative and go for at least the tie and extra innings in that situation.

 

 

...But Cantu wasn't one of the hitters struggling...

HAHAHAHAHA this is funny...

 

 

Oh btw I dont mean to point this out, but...

 

 

The Cardinals did the same thing tonight, tried to win it/tie it like we did in the bottom of the 9th tonight against the phillies... didnt work for them either....did it?

 

 

The difference is, the Cardinals had two crap hitters coming up, while we had our 3 & 4 hitters coming up. If you're bunting with your 3 & 4 hitters, you're not showing much confidence in your guys (guys that have come up with plenty of clutch hits, before).

 

They (Cantu, Willingham) didn't get it done. That's not Fredi's fault. There's a point and time to blame the manager. I don't see how you blame him for not bunting with the 3rd hitter. I personally would've been pissed, if he would've called for a suicide squeeze, with the one guy who's been amazing with .RISP this year, on the team.

 

exactly, unless Andino was in the majors, Amezaga didn't start but came in the pinch hit for Cantu, Andino came in to pinch run for Helms, then u could put on a squeeze

A Suicide squeeze would have been suicide, a left handed pitcher can see the break to home and could just move the pitch outside and helms would have been dead meat.

HAHAHAHAHA this is funny...

 

 

Oh btw I dont mean to point this out, but...

 

 

The Cardinals did the same thing tonight, tried to win it/tie it like we did in the bottom of the 9th tonight against the phillies... didnt work for them either....did it?

 

 

The difference is, the Cardinals had two crap hitters coming up, while we had our 3 & 4 hitters coming up. If you're bunting with your 3 & 4 hitters, you're not showing much confidence in your guys (guys that have come up with plenty of clutch hits, before).

 

They (Cantu, Willingham) didn't get it done. That's not Fredi's fault. There's a point and time to blame the manager. I don't see how you blame him for not bunting with the 3rd hitter. I personally would've been pissed, if he would've called for a suicide squeeze, with the one guy who's been amazing with .RISP this year, on the team.

 

exactly, unless Andino was in the majors, Amezaga didn't start but came in the pinch hit for Cantu, Andino came in to pinch run for Helms, then u could put on a squeeze

 

im not sure you guys also saw the 2nd part of that..

 

 

I would never of had Hanley hit, he would be pinch running for Helms, thus to set up the speed on the basepaths... lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the suicide squeeze isn't very well liked around here I can see..

HAHAHAHAHA this is funny...

 

 

Oh btw I dont mean to point this out, but...

 

 

The Cardinals did the same thing tonight, tried to win it/tie it like we did in the bottom of the 9th tonight against the phillies... didnt work for them either....did it?

 

 

The difference is, the Cardinals had two crap hitters coming up, while we had our 3 & 4 hitters coming up. If you're bunting with your 3 & 4 hitters, you're not showing much confidence in your guys (guys that have come up with plenty of clutch hits, before).

 

They (Cantu, Willingham) didn't get it done. That's not Fredi's fault. There's a point and time to blame the manager. I don't see how you blame him for not bunting with the 3rd hitter. I personally would've been pissed, if he would've called for a suicide squeeze, with the one guy who's been amazing with .RISP this year, on the team.

 

exactly, unless Andino was in the majors, Amezaga didn't start but came in the pinch hit for Cantu, Andino came in to pinch run for Helms, then u could put on a squeeze

 

im not sure you guys also saw the 2nd part of that..

 

 

I would never of had Hanley hit, he would be pinch running for Helms, thus to set up the speed on the basepaths... lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the suicide squeeze isn't very well liked around here I can see..

 

 

With the 3rd hitter up...MOST fans wouldn't like it, I'm sure.

 

And why would you want Hanley running? With Fuentes pitching (and Helms who had already hit)...you can't have Hermida up in that situation with men at 1st and 2nd & 1 out. Fuentes dominates lefties, and Hermida was already having a horrible day, at the plate.

I find it laughable that some of you have the audacity to sit there and presume that your OPINION on what move should or shouldn't have been made is BETTER than Freddi's. Personally I do NOT agree with some of the decisions he makes from time to time. But I would never presume to know more than Freddi. Especially to be in his position on the field and with the personal and professional relationships he needs to manage with each player along with the decisions on which move to make in a short amount of time with a million other things going through your head while on the field. To assume that I would make a better decision from my couch or any of you would make a better decision is just ludicrous, I mean how many of you have managed an MLB club before? That's what I thought. Not to mention that no matter what decision he makes it is ultimately up to the players to execute.

 

It is fine to disagree with the managers moves. But to insult Freddi and call him a bad manager or to call any one move HORRIBLE or WRONG after the fact is just horribly wrong. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

 

My 2 cents... I am not a huge fan of Freddi's by any means. But I still felt compelled to respond like this because of the blatantly ignorant nature of some of your posts. How about a little more respect for a job that is probably a lot harder than many of you imagine.

The only major complaint I have about Freddi is that his hook is too quick, but given the clown show of last season's rotation and the early woes this season, I understand it entirely.

The reason why I agree w/ the orignal post, and said to my dad "suicide squeeze" is for the exact reason stated above: we had one of our best hitters on, and Helms at 3rd. Everyone expected Jorge to be swinging for the fences, or at least try to get it deep enough for the sack fly. The rockies had the shift on, and were playing deep. If he had laid down the bunt to the right side, Helms WOULD HAVE made it despite being less than fleet-footed.

 

Then, the score would at least have been tied and we would have gone into Extra Innings when Willingham flyed out. With the hitters struggling in the game (and for the most part, the series), you have to be conservative and go for at least the tie and extra innings in that situation.

 

 

You are assuming that Cantu could lay down a decent bunt. And I have never seen that happen. So I still don't see why you take the bat out of one of our top producers with RISP and have him attempt something he can't do.

 

After all the arguing here, it still makes no difference. Next year Fredi will still be the manager and you will still be sitting there watching the games on TV. That's the bottom line.

The reason why I agree w/ the orignal post, and said to my dad "suicide squeeze" is for the exact reason stated above: we had one of our best hitters on, and Helms at 3rd. Everyone expected Jorge to be swinging for the fences, or at least try to get it deep enough for the sack fly. The rockies had the shift on, and were playing deep. If he had laid down the bunt to the right side, Helms WOULD HAVE made it despite being less than fleet-footed.

 

Then, the score would at least have been tied and we would have gone into Extra Innings when Willingham flyed out. With the hitters struggling in the game (and for the most part, the series), you have to be conservative and go for at least the tie and extra innings in that situation.

 

 

You are assuming that Cantu could lay down a decent bunt. And I have never seen that happen. So I still don't see why you take the bat out of one of our top producers with RISP and have him attempt something he can't do.

 

After all the arguing here, it still makes no difference. Next year Fredi will still be the manager and you will still be sitting there watching the games on TV. That's the bottom line.

 

Having Cantu lay one down is like having Greg Maddux hit a homer...Not likely going to happen when Cantu is the hottest hitter on your team

lol...

 

its like a thread is started talking about Fredi's decisions, people throw their two cents out there and its a different approach... and all of a sudden they are saying they can do a better job than Freddi....?

I never once said that I would do a better job than Freddi, I just said my two cents, it was a different approach, and suddenly I am calling myself better than Freddi for a decision I would have made, with no guaruntee that it would have changed the game in any way...?

 

(I never called Freddi horrible, or terrible, or any other name you throw out there... nor did I ever when I was on a team and a coach made a call that I didn't like.)

 

Now it is ironic that your "2 cents" has the same damn value as mine.... we will both be on the couch watching whether we win or lose...

How dare we?.. HOW DARE WE!? Perfidy and outrage! To have the audacity to think that an error could have possibly been made! Egads! Oh Freddi, how could we ever question you?! Equipped as we are with the perfection of hindsight why wouldst we presume to claim foul! We hath so terribly wounded thy esteemed mastery of all that is Marlins baseball and ever so humbly beg forgiveness for our spiralling hubris! djm305 has spoken and we are rightly cowed!

The only major complaint I have about Freddi is that his hook is too quick, but given the clown show of last season's rotation and the early woes this season, I understand it entirely.

 

He has the quick hook when pitchers are pitching well which is even worse because he burns the bullpen on the nights he could have save it.

The only major complaint I have about Freddi is that his hook is too quick, but given the clown show of last season's rotation and the early woes this season, I understand it entirely.

 

He has the quick hook when pitchers are pitching well which is even worse because he burns the bullpen on the nights he could have save it.

 

Well, when pitchers suck no hook feels quick enough! My quick hook comment is entirely restricted to solid pitching performances.

How dare we?.. HOW DARE WE!? Perfidy and outrage! To have the audacity to think that an error could have possibly been made! Egads! Oh Freddi, how could we ever question you?! Equipped as we are with the perfection of hindsight why wouldst we presume to claim foul! We hath so terribly wounded thy esteemed mastery of all that is Marlins baseball and ever so humbly beg forgiveness for our spiralling hubris! djm305 has spoken and we are rightly cowed!

 

 

I did not claim to know more than anyone in my post...so I did not mean to come off as "above" anyone. Sorry if my words came out a bit to proper for a forum post. But I guess I can have a laugh at my own expense with your post.

 

Basically I was just frustrated with all the undeserved criticism he SOMETIMES gets around here. Like I said I do not think he is a perfect manager but no manager is perfect. Every manager makes moves that are later question because they did not work and did not seem like the right move.

 

I have seen people saying Freddi needs to be fired and that he is a horrible manager. Pez I did not mean to imply that you feel that way.... but I do not agree with your sentiments on Freddi's decision in yesterday's game. I think it was the right move and I think most managers in MLB would have made the same move.

The only major complaint I have about Freddi is that his hook is too quick, but given the clown show of last season's rotation and the early woes this season, I understand it entirely.

Normally I'd agree. But in this game he had no choice. You have to go for the insurance run, especially with the way the bulk of this pen has been performing lately.

How dare we?.. HOW DARE WE!? Perfidy and outrage! To have the audacity to think that an error could have possibly been made! Egads! Oh Freddi, how could we ever question you?! Equipped as we are with the perfection of hindsight why wouldst we presume to claim foul! We hath so terribly wounded thy esteemed mastery of all that is Marlins baseball and ever so humbly beg forgiveness for our spiralling hubris! djm305 has spoken and we are rightly cowed!

 

 

I did not claim to know more than anyone in my post...so I did not mean to come off as "above" anyone. Sorry if my words came out a bit to proper for a forum post. But I guess I can have a laugh at my own expense with your post.

 

 

Tongue was planted firmly in cheek on that post, I was just having a bit of fun. You are correct that Freddi gets way to much blame when things don't work, but that is because we are good. If we sucked, nobody would care how many innings a pitcher went.

A Suicide squeeze would have been suicide, a left handed pitcher can see the break to home and could just move the pitch outside and helms would have been dead meat.

That is why it is call a suicide squeeze :cool