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Salary limits might foil a run at Ibanez

 

By Juan C. Rodriguez | South Florida Sun-Sentinel

November 15, 2008

 

As the Marlins Get your Marlins Tickets now! wade into free agency and continue surveying the trade market, here's one question they'll try to answer: Who out there would be an upgrade over Cody Ross in left?

 

Don't say Manny Ramirez. The Marlins' financial realities have not changed. Yes, the payroll will increase to the $35 million to $40 million range. They've already rid themselves of four arbitration-eligible players, but keep in mind Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla could account for close to a third of next year's outlay.

 

The case for the right-handed hitting Ross is compelling. According to Baseball Info Solutions defense guru John Dewan's plus/minus system, Ross scored a +15 as a center fielder and +1 in 45 innings as a left fielder last season. In Dewan's formula, anything greater than 0 is above average.

 

Offensively, Ross is coming off a career-best 22 homers and 73 RBI in 461 at-bats. The .316 on-base percentage wasn't great, but he has a lifetime .493 slugging percentage in 947 big league at-bats.

 

If the Marlins deem they are better served with Ross as a fourth outfielder, they could seek a left fielder in free agency. It's a long shot, but one name to monitor is Raul Ibanez. The Mariner is a Miami product and has long-standing relationships with President of Baseball Operations Admin Beinfest and manager Fredi Gonzalez.

 

"I've known [Gonzalez] since I was in ninth grade," said Ibanez, 36. "I've always been open to the possibility about playing in Miami. I've followed the team closely since even before they were a team. I've always been intrigued by that possibility, especially after we played them last year and I saw how competitive they were. ... Admin Beinfest has done an unbelievable job of staying competitive despite a limited payroll."

 

That payroll may preclude the Marlins from making a serious run at Ibanez. The Mets are believed to be on a double-digit list of teams that has expressed interest.

 

A .286 career hitter in 13 seasons, Ibanez would give the Marlins that middle-of-the-order lefty bat to replace Mike Jacobs. Ibanez wouldn't be expected to hit as many homers as Jacobs, but he won't strike out as much and reaches base at a considerably better clip.

 

Beinfest and Gonzalez know Ibanez's intangibles rank right up there with those Luis Gonzalez provided last season. A couple of things are working against Ibanez joining the Marlins. During the past three seasons combined, only Pat Burrell (-73), Ramirez (-68) and Adam Dunn (-58) have scored lower in Dewan's system than Ibanez (-41).

 

Plus, the need for veteran leadership no longer is as pressing an issue.

 

"Our younger guys have gotten older," Beinfest said. "I think it was important. I think we missed it in '07 and got it back in '08. Having Gonzo and Wes [Helms] and [Mark] Hendrickson made a difference this past year. Now our guys are a year older and more established, and Wes is back already."

 

If Ibanez doesn't prove a fit, the Marlins might be interested in someone like Scott Podsednik. The left-handed hitting Podsednik is a well-above-average fielder with speed who's trying to get his career back on track.

 

 

HMMMMMMMMM.....

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Also forgot he is Type A so we'd have to give up our first rounder to get him. Terrible idea.

 

 

I think he's worth it dude, this guy has been consistent since 2002, he hits almost 200 hits a year, and I can also live with those HR and RBI totals, and a very interesting note, Raul and Jose Reyes share the same On Base Percentage..... :whistle

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It's an interesting prospect, but I doubt that the FO would want to get him, unless they are planning on trading Hermida, but money wise it wouldn't make much sense. If they are not trading Hermida, then what do u do with Ross? Platoon him with Hermida? With Maybin? I would think that they would want to give each of those guys a chance to start full time at this point.

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Also forgot he is Type A so we'd have to give up our first rounder to get him. Terrible idea.

 

 

What do you think it would take to sign him?

 

Money probably, so unlikely it will happen.

 

Besides, wouldn't that be going against the speed/defense theory? We aren't the Royals =/

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Also forgot he is Type A so we'd have to give up our first rounder to get him. Terrible idea.

 

 

What do you think it would take to sign him?

 

Money probably, so unlikely it will happen.

 

Besides, wouldn't that be going against the speed/defense theory? We aren't the Royals =/

 

 

If we can get our hands on this true OFFENSIVE player than we dont worry about defense, atleast in leftfield. I like this cat, can you imagine a lineup with him?

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If we can get our hands on this true OFFENSIVE player than we dont worry about defense, atleast in leftfield. I like this cat, can you imagine a lineup with him?

 

 

Wait...what was that? Weren't you the one last night who, basically, called me dumb for even considering Barry Bonds?

 

Let me guess...Ibanez is better than Bonds, right? :rolleyes:

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i think Bradley would be too much, PLUS Ibanez wants to come here.

 

But the question is, do we want him, or for that matter either of them (in the context of how this team takes shape over the next two or three years they'd want in a contract)?

 

Personally I think we're looking for a much different type of player than either of them and most importantly one who complements our new centerfielder defensively. Could even be a darkhorse from within the organization like Tommy Murphy who excelled in the field and at the plate at AAA both in the INT as well as the PCL after being hung out to dry by the Angels, the same way they did with Reggie Willits last season coming off being voted American League Rookie of the Year runnerup. Posting a .391 OBP in his rookie season Willits was relegated to pinch-runner status in 2008. Talk about a waste of talent.

 

Two years ago Murphy was (according to BA) both the Angels best athlete and defensive outfield prospect and flat out was just allowed to rot and then discarded.

 

But I digress.

 

With the talent coming up through our system and the natural way of things I don't think the Marlins are looking for more than an overachieving guy (like they do in the bullpen, think Joe Nelson, Gardner, Jones, etc.) who can play his heart out for a year until Stanton or Morrison or whoever (and there's at least two or three others who come to mind) has to play or perish, from within.

 

Personally I'd love to see Reggie Willits in the outfield everyday - speed, defense and an OBP to die for - next to Maybin. It isn't going to happen but I'd like to see it. Tommy Murphy is a long, longshot but we'll see what he does in spring training.

 

And I still think we should be looking a catcher before any other position, whether a starter or backup to Baker, but that's another story.

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Wait...what was that? Weren't you the one last night who, basically, called me dumb for even considering Barry Bonds?

 

Let me guess...Ibanez is better than Bonds, right? :rolleyes:

 

 

Correct! He is exactly the kind of player we need, someone who can get on base for Hanley and Uggla, if our lead off hitter (Maybin) does good this year with a guy like Ibanez also in the lineup we will be the kind of team that we were in 2003. Small ball is the way to go, why do we need Bonds when Ibanez is a sure thing and can field better than Bonds with his eyes closed.

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Correct! He is exactly the kind of play we need, someone who can get on base for Hanley and Uggla, if our lead off hitter (Maybin) does good this year with a guy like Ibanez also in the lineup we will be the kind of team that we were in 2003. Small ball is the way to go, why do we need Bonds when Ibanez is a sure thing and can field better than Bonds with his eyes closed.

 

"He is exactly the kind of play we need, someone who can get on base for Hanley and Uggla..."

 

Barry Bonds gets on base more than Raul Ibanez does.

 

"Small ball is the way to go, why do we need Bonds when Ibanez is a sure thing and can field better than Bonds with his eyes closed."

 

Raul Ibanez is not a professional bunter, nor does he have great speed, if that's your definition of "small ball." Bonds is a sure thing, as well. As for Ibanez fielding better than Bonds with his eyes closed...haha! Why don't you read the article, again? Only Pat Burrell, Manny Ramirez, and Adam Dunn are worse defensively than Ibanez in LF. Ibanez is a well below average fielder.

 

 

Oh...almost forgot. Ibanez is a Type A free agent. Bonds can be had for league minimum. And Bonds is better...

 

But, yeah...ummm...uhhh...Ibanez for President! :rolleyes:

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i highly doubt we sign any free agents like ibanez or hudson. although if we were to go after an outfielder i would definitely want milton bradley because he was 3rd in BA, 1st in OBP and OPS, 10th in BB, and 4th in SLUG but his health is always a concern

 

 

Would cost too much, and the last thing the Marlins need is a trouble maker.

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i highly doubt we sign any free agents like ibanez or hudson. although if we were to go after an outfielder i would definitely want milton bradley because he was 3rd in BA, 1st in OBP and OPS, 10th in BB, and 4th in SLUG but his health is always a concern

 

 

Would cost too much, and the last thing the Marlins need is a trouble maker.

 

 

Whose a troublemaker may I ask, Hudson?

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i highly doubt we sign any free agents like ibanez or hudson. although if we were to go after an outfielder i would definitely want milton bradley because he was 3rd in BA, 1st in OBP and OPS, 10th in BB, and 4th in SLUG but his health is always a concern

 

 

Would cost too much, and the last thing the Marlins need is a trouble maker.

 

 

Whose a troublemaker may I ask, Hudson?

 

milton bradley

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Yes. Let's absolutely sign Ibanez for 3 years at millions of millions of dollars and give away our first round pick in the process. We don't have Hermida, Ross, G. Sanchez, McPherson, Cousins, Raynor, Petersen, Morrison, and Stanton, 6 of whom at left handed, for 1B and corner OF slots for now and the future.

 

Ibanez. Perfect!

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i highly doubt we sign any free agents like ibanez or hudson. although if we were to go after an outfielder i would definitely want milton bradley because he was 3rd in BA, 1st in OBP and OPS, 10th in BB, and 4th in SLUG but his health is always a concern

 

 

Would cost too much, and the last thing the Marlins need is a trouble maker.

 

 

Whose a troublemaker may I ask, Hudson?

 

 

The person he mentioned...

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Salary limits might foil a run at Ibanez

 

By Juan C. Rodriguez | South Florida Sun-Sentinel

November 15, 2008

 

As the Marlins Get your Marlins Tickets now! wade into free agency and continue surveying the trade market, here's one question they'll try to answer: Who out there would be an upgrade over Cody Ross in left?

 

Don't say Manny Ramirez. The Marlins' financial realities have not changed. Yes, the payroll will increase to the $35 million to $40 million range. They've already rid themselves of four arbitration-eligible players, but keep in mind Hanley Ramirez and Dan Uggla could account for close to a third of next year's outlay.

 

The case for the right-handed hitting Ross is compelling. According to Baseball Info Solutions defense guru John Dewan's plus/minus system, Ross scored a +15 as a center fielder and +1 in 45 innings as a left fielder last season. In Dewan's formula, anything greater than 0 is above average.

 

Offensively, Ross is coming off a career-best 22 homers and 73 RBI in 461 at-bats. The .316 on-base percentage wasn't great, but he has a lifetime .493 slugging percentage in 947 big league at-bats.

 

If the Marlins deem they are better served with Ross as a fourth outfielder, they could seek a left fielder in free agency. It's a long shot, but one name to monitor is Raul Ibanez. The Mariner is a Miami product and has long-standing relationships with President of Baseball Operations Admin Beinfest and manager Fredi Gonzalez.

 

"I've known [Gonzalez] since I was in ninth grade," said Ibanez, 36. "I've always been open to the possibility about playing in Miami. I've followed the team closely since even before they were a team. I've always been intrigued by that possibility, especially after we played them last year and I saw how competitive they were. ... Admin Beinfest has done an unbelievable job of staying competitive despite a limited payroll."

 

That payroll may preclude the Marlins from making a serious run at Ibanez. The Mets are believed to be on a double-digit list of teams that has expressed interest.

 

A .286 career hitter in 13 seasons, Ibanez would give the Marlins that middle-of-the-order lefty bat to replace Mike Jacobs. Ibanez wouldn't be expected to hit as many homers as Jacobs, but he won't strike out as much and reaches base at a considerably better clip.

 

Beinfest and Gonzalez know Ibanez's intangibles rank right up there with those Luis Gonzalez provided last season. A couple of things are working against Ibanez joining the Marlins. During the past three seasons combined, only Pat Burrell (-73), Ramirez (-68) and Adam Dunn (-58) have scored lower in Dewan's system than Ibanez (-41).

 

Plus, the need for veteran leadership no longer is as pressing an issue.

 

"Our younger guys have gotten older," Beinfest said. "I think it was important. I think we missed it in '07 and got it back in '08. Having Gonzo and Wes [Helms] and [Mark] Hendrickson made a difference this past year. Now our guys are a year older and more established, and Wes is back already."

 

If Ibanez doesn't prove a fit, the Marlins might be interested in someone like Scott Podsednik. The left-handed hitting Podsednik is a well-above-average fielder with speed who's trying to get his career back on track.

 

 

HMMMMMMMMM.....

Haha that made me lagh but i know what he ment.

I like Ibanez but im not crazy about him ill settle with ross.

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I'll pass on Ibanez. If we want to spend the money, might as well go out and get Pudge. I am pretty comfortable with Cody starting in RF next season and will settle for Hermida in left. Apparently the FO doesn't feel as comfortable as i do, but we will see what happens in the next couple of weeks

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