bobbob1313 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Ill say PATRIOT Act was probably worse than this. Not a chance. The Patriot Act is an atrocious piece of legislation (as was the Iraq War resolution, TARP, and Obama's stimulus) but the Patriot Act is fairly easy to lift as long as the votes are present in the House and Senate. The cap and trade system invokes enormous economic costs with no benefits and will have severe consequences on the market that will not be quickly ironed out when the scientific skepticism about climate change becomes universal. I will say that if Obama gets a health care bill through, it will be worse than the cap and trade. admitting that I don't have much more than a basic understanding of comples economic theories and what no, the reason I think PATRIOT would be worse is because from where I'm standing, it can be feasibly argued that this bill could have a net positive outside of the enviromental aspect (I'm on my phone, but there are stories out there, Pierremvp posted one), whereas I see PATRIOT as solely being a 'we know it's f***ed, and we can't justify with anything but that you are scared'. I'm not sure I'm arguing this the way I want to; probably not. I'll try again when I'm not using a phone. And before wmm takes my comments for something they aren't, I'm not saying nor have I ever said I agree with or support this bill. I hope it fails hard in the senate, because most people are against this, and our elected officials should be reflecting the will of the people. I'm just saying that I think an argument could be made either way for it, because I don't believe there is one 'right' economic theory, not that I necessarily believe that this will be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildMarlinMan2003 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 So you're saying half of America does support Obama and what the government is doing? It sounds a lot worse for your argument when it's put like that, no? And that's not really a reply to what I said. Correct. 67% according to Gallup is not happy with the government so when it hits 85% is that when you expect a Civil War or Revolution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 So you're saying half of America does support Obama and what the government is doing? It sounds a lot worse for your argument when it's put like that, no? And that's not really a reply to what I said. Correct. 67% according to Gallup is not happy with the government so when it hits 85% is that when you expect a Civil War or Revolution? :lol awesome. No, I don't expect a civil war any time soon. Not a revolution either. Considering the number of people attending tea parties in our country is such an infitesimally small portion as to barely exist, I don't think the political or social will is even close to that point, and it's gonna take a lot more than this for that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildMarlinMan2003 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 So you're saying half of America does support Obama and what the government is doing? It sounds a lot worse for your argument when it's put like that, no? And that's not really a reply to what I said. Correct. 67% according to Gallup is not happy with the government so when it hits 85% is that when you expect a Civil War or Revolution? :lol awesome. No, I don't expect a civil war any time soon. Not a revolution either. Considering the number of people attending tea parties in our country is such an infitesimally small portion as to barely exist, I don't think the political or social will is even close to that point, and it's gonna take a lot more than this for that to happen. Congrats, one year ago there weren't even Tea Parties and now they are in 1,000 cities. By Obama's pace, we will have states detract from the US and a Civil War by the beginning of next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 There hundreds of thousands of people protestig the Iraq war and somehow our country survived. After 8 years of left wing nuts saying the president is going to destroy our country, finally the right wing nuts get their turn. In the immortal words of Pete townsend, 'meet the new (crazy, conspiracy theory wackos) same as the old (crazy, conspiracy theory wackos).' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildMarlinMan2003 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 There hundreds of thousands of people protestig the Iraq war and somehow our country survived. After 8 years of left wing nuts saying the president is going to destroy our country, finally the right wing nuts get their turn. In the immortal words of Pete townsend, 'meet the new (crazy, conspiracy theory wackos) same as the old (crazy, conspiracy theory wackos).' One could very well argue that the Iraq "meaningless" Oil War is nothing compared to taking over corporations, taxing citizens more than ever, and spending more money than ever in the history of the World during the worst economic decline since the Great Depression. I would rather fight in 3 wars than have a socialist/fascist dictatorship but maybe that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierremvp1 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 My point exactly...I rest my case. You just say the Patriot Act is worse with no logical or factual proof or facts like all of your posts. The Patriot Act did not raise your taxes or cost the government as much as this Cap and Trade bill and that is a fact. Give me some facts to support your theories for once. Why is the Patriot Act worse? So your criteria for judging which bill is worse than another is how much the tax bill is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 That is mostly besides the point. You said that the tea parties Are proof that America is teetering on the brink of a civil war, but the protests before the war were far bigger than the tea parties. I can't find any information about attendance on the 4th which says to me it wasnt very good because if it was, it would be all over the Internet at least. The fact of the matter is the tea party people represent an exceedingly small portion of the population as a hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman totale Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 My local Tea Party pulled in a massive 347 people (organizer estimates, so likely inflated to include anyone who happened to walk past during the event). Judging by the pics in the local paper half of these were militia crazies and the other half were their young children who weren't old enough to form an excuse for not being dragged along... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildMarlinMan2003 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 That is mostly besides the point. You said that the tea parties Are proof that America is teetering on the brink of a civil war, but the protests before the war were far bigger than the tea parties. I can't find any information about attendance on the 4th which says to me it wasnt very good because if it was, it would be all over the Internet at least. The fact of the matter is the tea party people represent an exceedingly small portion of the population as a hole. I'm sure the mainstream media wants to report on attendance numbers of Tea Parties. In fact, I know Brevard County and Space Coast Stadium pulled at least 2,500. That's a great number since that was only one out of 1,000 cities hosting Tea Parties and only 1 out of 45 cities in Florida. Estimates of 200,000-300,000 for Tea Parties accross America on July 4th is very encouraging, especially since they continue to grow as the government continues to grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Care to cite any of that? And even if that's true, it represents less than 1% of our population at most. And this is going to turn into an out and out nationwide violent, open revolt in 7 months? And you know fox news wants nothing more than to report high attendance for tea parties, so you should have no problem finding something. Guess they weren't part of the mainstream when they devoted an entire day of coverage to basically endorse the tea parties in April? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildMarlinMan2003 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Care to cite any of that? And even if that's true, it represents less than 1% of our population at most. And this is going to turn into an out and out nationwide violent, open revolt in 7 months? And you know fox news wants nothing more than to report high attendance for tea parties, so you should have no problem finding something. Guess they weren't part of the mainstream when they devoted an entire day of coverage to basically endorse the tea parties in April? I will find some numbers for you. That is my estimate being that if only 200-300 were at every event whereas some events such as mine held 2,500 and D.C. held about 5K. Either way, the numbers are alarming in a positive way that the people are sick of taxation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I saw some pictures of dc. Didn't look like 5k. And either way, assuming 250,000 is right, that's less than 1%. 'the people' aren't sick of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfish Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 im Skeptic that he went to the moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Awe. Some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeVORP Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 XD @ the thought of "not believing" in global warming. And his reasoning? Are you kidding me? Sorry Buzz, that's not how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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