November 11, 200322 yr What a loser. He has the ability to be a monster pitcher, but I just lost all respect for the guy. Webb may have better stats, but Dontrelle contributed a LOT more to his team.
November 11, 200322 yr Author What a loser. He has the ability to be a monster pitcher, but I just lost all respect for the guy. Webb may have better stats, but Dontrelle contributed a LOT more to his team. Dontrelle's a hell of a lot more mature too, I'll tell yah that
November 11, 200322 yr when the Webb pitches again in South Florida I'll bring my sign about his comments. That was almost as bad as K2's comments earlier. :jackass
November 11, 200322 yr Author when the Webb pitches again in South Florida I'll bring my sign about his comments. That was almost as bad as K2's comments earlier. :jackass K2???? :blink:
November 11, 200322 yr Webb pitched more innings (180.2 to 160.2) - so Webb had his chances at getting more wins. wouldnt that be Willis' fault? Willis is younger: 21 to Webb being 24. age should have nothing to do with it ERA? Webb gave up 1 LESS EARNED RUN than Willis (57 to 58). So even though the ERA is better for Webb than Willis (2.83 to 3.60), the disparity is not as much as it seems. he gave up 1 less earned run in 20 MORE INNINGS.... it is all far apart as it seems and I have nothing bad to say about Webb.... he's just speaking his mind....
November 11, 200322 yr when the Webb pitches again in South Florida I'll bring my sign about his comments. That was almost as bad as K2's comments earlier. :jackass K2???? :blink: Kellen Winslow II?
November 11, 200322 yr Author when the Webb pitches again in South Florida I'll bring my sign about his comments. That was almost as bad as K2's comments earlier. :jackass K2???? :blink: Kellen Winslow II? ohh if he's talking about Winslow..that was funny as hell "we are F-ING SOLDIERS" :lol
November 11, 200322 yr um.... webb did have a better year on the mound than willis....aside from wins. and as we all know, wins dont tell the entire picture. webb has a right to be bitter....willis was more popular with the media...shocking isnt it? My vote would of gone to Posednick...Webb second, Cabs and Willis splitting third.... Face it...Dontrelle had a horrible second half....but tip your hat...he wins it and you congragulate him. Now Willis needs to buckle down and come back strong next year.....cause he cannot do what he did in the second half next year.
November 11, 200322 yr Author um.... webb did have a better year on the mound than willis....aside from wins. and as we all know, wins dont tell the entire picture. webb has a right to be bitter....willis was more popular with the media...shocking isnt it? My vote would of gone to Posednick...Webb second, Cabs and Willis splitting third.... Face it...Dontrelle had a horrible second half....but tip your hat...he wins it and you congragulate him. Now Willis needs to buckle down and come back strong next year.....cause he cannot do what he did in the second half next year. I do agree that Webb had a better second half but Willis's first half made up for his second half. Yes, Webb might have had the better stats but Willis was far more valuable. And I believe ROTY shouldn't just be about stats. Even if Webb had a right to be bitter, he had no right to publicly down Willis like that. But actually, it doesn't bother me because he's the one that looks like the jealous a-hole now. the THIRD place jealous a-hole.
November 11, 200322 yr I can understand being annoyed that Webb shot of his mouth about Willis, but I don't understand how anyone can justify Willis winning over Webb at all. It doesn't bother me that he won it. I really don't give a lot of credence to most of the awards given out, but everyone here should realize the awesome power of the media and how it affected both Willis and Webb. Willis did a great job this year, not doubt about it. Webb also did a great job...better than Willis. Yet Willis was ordained the best rookie pitcher even before the All Star break. This means nothing to me, but I bet it meant a lot to Webb. The guy busted his butt this year...and as a rookie who hasn't learned the ways of the media and how to deal with it...he probably let it get to him. I think Webb deserves a break here.
November 11, 200322 yr Had I been a voter, this would have been my ballot: 1) Podsednik 2) Willis 3) Jason Phillips How is it possible Phillips didn't even get a single vote, but Jose Reyes who played for like 50 days did?
November 11, 200322 yr How is it that Jason Phillips can get votes over Miguel Cabrera when their numbers are very comparable and Miguel had less at bats?
November 11, 200322 yr He didn't do anything the second half This is what is so wrong with Webb comments. You can be bitter and even say that you think you deserved the award, and that's ok. But you don't belittle a peer ballplayer like that.
November 11, 200322 yr Author I can understand being annoyed that Webb shot of his mouth about Willis, but I don't understand how anyone can justify Willis winning over Webb at all. It doesn't bother me that he won it. I really don't give a lot of credence to most of the awards given out, but everyone here should realize the awesome power of the media and how it affected both Willis and Webb. Willis did a great job this year, not doubt about it. Webb also did a great job...better than Willis. Yet Willis was ordained the best rookie pitcher even before the All Star break. This means nothing to me, but I bet it meant a lot to Webb. The guy busted his butt this year...and as a rookie who hasn't learned the ways of the media and how to deal with it...he probably let it get to him. I think Webb deserves a break here. you made a really good point.... but I still believe that what he said was very uncalled for. He made it seem like Dontrelle did nothing to deserve this award and that the voters should only care about the second half. Granted, Webb had a far better second half. BUT Willis had a better first half...PLUS Willis made the all-star team, got a lot of recognition from that outstanding first half, helped rejuvenate the Marlins ROTY is not just about stats...yes Webb might have had a better ERA and this and that.But Willis had something far better than stats, he had South Florida baseball fans back in those empty PPS seats for him (at first) For god's sake, the kid had coined a national nickname by his second month. Willis had more recognition for a reason. And the recognition helped him a lot obviously since reporters vote.
November 11, 200322 yr He didn't do anything the second half This is what is so wrong with Webb comments. You can be bitter and even say that you think you deserved the award, and that's ok. But you don't belittle a peer ballplayer like that. I agree that it's was a really bad thing to say...but I'm going to give a rookie one more shot to redeem himself. So basically, he has one more shot before I lump him in with another whiny pitcher by the name of Pedro.
November 11, 200322 yr I can understand being annoyed that Webb shot of his mouth about Willis, but I don't understand how anyone can justify Willis winning over Webb at all. It doesn't bother me that he won it. I really don't give a lot of credence to most of the awards given out, but everyone here should realize the awesome power of the media and how it affected both Willis and Webb. Willis did a great job this year, not doubt about it. Webb also did a great job...better than Willis. Yet Willis was ordained the best rookie pitcher even before the All Star break. This means nothing to me, but I bet it meant a lot to Webb. The guy busted his butt this year...and as a rookie who hasn't learned the ways of the media and how to deal with it...he probably let it get to him. I think Webb deserves a break here. you made a really good point.... but I still believe that what he said was very uncalled for. He made it seem like Dontrelle did nothing to deserve this award and that the voters should only care about the second half. Granted, Webb had a far better second half. BUT Willis had a better first half...PLUS Willis made the all-star team, got a lot of recognition from that outstanding first half, helped rejuvenate the Marlins ROTY is not just about stats...yes Webb might have had a better ERA and this and that.But Willis had something far better than stats, he had South Florida baseball fans back in those empty PPS seats for him (at first) For god's sake, the kid had coined a national nickname by his second month. Willis had more recognition for a reason. And the recognition helped him a lot obviously since reporters vote. I think most people outside of the Marlins and D-Backs fan bases looked at both of the pitchers and said, "Wow, these two guys are pretty comparable, but that dude Willis is just too freakin' cool." That's what I take from this whole thing. It's not wrong. It's just about opinions and what some may prefer. That being said, the onus is now on Webb to produce next season. He'll be the one looking like a fool if he doesn't. If he had shut his mouth, the pressure would have been on Willis.
November 11, 200322 yr Webb pitched more innings (180.2 to 160.2) - so Webb had his chances at getting more wins. wouldnt that be Willis' fault? Willis is younger: 21 to Webb being 24. age should have nothing to do with it ERA?? Webb gave up 1 LESS EARNED RUN than Willis (57 to 58).? So even though the ERA is better for Webb than Willis (2.83 to 3.60), the disparity is not as much as it seems.? he gave up 1 less earned run in 20 MORE INNINGS.... it is all far apart as it seems and I have nothing bad to say about Webb.... he's just speaking his mind.... Age should have nothing to do with it. But when Ichiro or Matsui made their debuts, age became a huge issue for some. Webb came out of college and has more experience and is more polished than Willis - so I think age does have something to do with expectations here. As far as Webb pitching more innings, that is not Willis' fault. Webb had 2 more appearances than Willis. And all this BS about 2nd half, which Webb himself brings up, has no more bearing than first half success should. But since you had to shoot your mouth off Brandon, lets look at what YOU did in the second half: 3.34 3-7 14GS 83.2 65H 31ER 4HR 42BB 91K .210BAA Pitched well enough to win games and even reverse that record, but losses are still losses. No, they dont determine how good a pitcher is, but they certainly shape the picture. Strikeouts dont tell us anything either. But you have to start formulating something here. Point is, if Webb doesnt want Dontrelle to win it because of his first half success, then he shouldnt be allowed to lose it because of his second half slump. Look at the whole picture - and if you actually do, you will see that the stats for Webb and Willis are pretty even. Take a look at my post to see that. Admittedly, the votes were a little overwhelming in Willis' favor, which was a shock to me, but I still expected him to win it.
November 11, 200322 yr I can understand being annoyed that Webb shot of his mouth about Willis, but I don't understand how anyone can justify Willis winning over Webb at all. It doesn't bother me that he won it. I really don't give a lot of credence to most of the awards given out, but everyone here should realize the awesome power of the media and how it affected both Willis and Webb. Willis did a great job this year, not doubt about it. Webb also did a great job...better than Willis. Yet Willis was ordained the best rookie pitcher even before the All Star break. This means nothing to me, but I bet it meant a lot to Webb. The guy busted his butt this year...and as a rookie who hasn't learned the ways of the media and how to deal with it...he probably let it get to him. I think Webb deserves a break here. you made a really good point.... but I still believe that what he said was very uncalled for. He made it seem like Dontrelle did nothing to deserve this award and that the voters should only care about the second half. Granted, Webb had a far better second half. BUT Willis had a better first half...PLUS Willis made the all-star team, got a lot of recognition from that outstanding first half, helped rejuvenate the Marlins ROTY is not just about stats...yes Webb might have had a better ERA and this and that.But Willis had something far better than stats, he had South Florida baseball fans back in those empty PPS seats for him (at first) For god's sake, the kid had coined a national nickname by his second month. Willis had more recognition for a reason. And the recognition helped him a lot obviously since reporters vote. I think most people outside of the Marlins and D-Backs fan bases looked at both of the pitchers and said, "Wow, these two guys are pretty comparable, but that dude Willis is just too freakin' cool." That's what I take from this whole thing. It's not wrong. It's just about opinions and what some may prefer. That being said, the onus is now on Webb to produce next season. He'll be the one looking like a fool if he doesn't. If he had shut his mouth, the pressure would have been on Willis. not to take anything away from webb's slightly better pitching stats, but when you've got a starting pitcher who hits .241, runs like a demon, and is an all-around superior athlete in the lineup, it's almost like you've brought the DH to a national league team. it's a whole extra bat in the lineup, and that's one of the reasons why d-train's win-loss record is so good for his ERA. the guy is more than just a great pitcher, he's also an extra offensive bat. intangibles aside, merely from a stats point of view, willis actually does have a case here...
November 11, 200322 yr Pitched well enough to win games and even reverse that record, but losses are still losses. No, they dont determine how good a pitcher is, but they certainly shape the picture. Strikeouts dont tell us anything either. But you have to start formulating something here. If losses don't determine how good (or bad) a pitcher is...than exactly what picture does that stat shape? Wins and losses in one season tells me very little... And stikeouts don't tell us anything? Sheesh. My brain is hurting.
November 11, 200322 yr not to take anything away from webb's slightly better pitching stats, but when you've got a starting pitcher who hits .241, runs like a demon, and is an all-around superior athlete in the lineup, it's almost like you've brought the DH to a national league team. it's a whole extra bat in the lineup, and that's one of the reasons why d-train's win-loss record is so good for his ERA. the guy is more than just a great pitcher, he's also an extra offensive bat. intangibles aside, merely from a stats point of view, willis actually does have a case here... I remember him having the 3 hit game in the NLDS and a couple good games in September but you guys are making it seem like this guy could play DH or something . . . Do you think that the voters gave Dontrelle the edge because of his hitting?
November 11, 200322 yr Pitched well enough to win games and even reverse that record, but losses are still losses. No, they dont determine how good a pitcher is, but they certainly shape the picture. Strikeouts dont tell us anything either. But you have to start formulating something here. If losses don't determine how good (or bad) a pitcher is...than exactly what picture does that stat shape? Wins and losses in one season tells me very little... And stikeouts don't tell us anything? Sheesh. My brain is hurting. strikeouts mean nothing, i'll agree with that. it doesn't matter how you get them out, it matters how many runs you give up win-loss record means little apart from the offensive production of your teammates when comparing starting pitchers with similar ERAs in the AMERICAN LEAGUE. you're forgetting that in the national league, the pitcher himself has to step up to the plate. willis is a far superior hitter than webb. correct me if i'm wrong, but the rookie of the year is the best all-around rookie in the league. it's not like the cy young or the gold glove. webb might be better at pitching, but he's not all-around superior to willis.
November 11, 200322 yr not to take anything away from webb's slightly better pitching stats, but when you've got a starting pitcher who hits .241, runs like a demon, and is an all-around superior athlete in the lineup, it's almost like you've brought the DH to a national league team. it's a whole extra bat in the lineup, and that's one of the reasons why d-train's win-loss record is so good for his ERA. the guy is more than just a great pitcher, he's also an extra offensive bat. intangibles aside, merely from a stats point of view, willis actually does have a case here... I remember him having the 3 hit game in the NLDS and a couple good games in September but you guys are making it seem like this guy could play DH or something . . . Do you think that the voters gave Dontrelle the edge because of his hitting? i said no such thing. my whole point is that even if a writer were to ONLY look at STATS (as opposed to stats + intangibles), willis would still have a good case at beating webb despite webb's better ERA. a 0.241 hitter is clearly superior to a 0.100 hitter. it's pretty obvious which one i'd rather have in my batting order.
November 11, 200322 yr Pitched well enough to win games and even reverse that record, but losses are still losses.? No, they dont determine how good a pitcher is, but they certainly shape the picture.? Strikeouts dont tell us anything either.? But you have to start formulating something here. If losses don't determine how good (or bad) a pitcher is...than exactly what picture does that stat shape? Wins and losses in one season tells me very little... And stikeouts don't tell us anything? Sheesh. My brain is hurting. strikeouts mean nothing, i'll agree with that. it doesn't matter how you get them out, it matters how many runs you give up win-loss record means little apart from the offensive production of your teammates when comparing starting pitchers with similar ERAs in the AMERICAN LEAGUE. you're forgetting that in the national league, the pitcher himself has to step up to the plate. willis is a far superior hitter than webb. correct me if i'm wrong, but the rookie of the year is the best all-around rookie in the league. it's not like the cy young or the gold glove. webb might be better at pitching, but he's not all-around superior to willis. Strikeouts do matter. Especially K/9innings. Webb was a better pitcher than Willis. What you're saying is that Dontrelle's hitting stats make him better than Webb. And that they helped him win more games than Webb. I disagree. Although his hitting stats are way better than Webb's, they are still not good enough to say that those stast are the reason why he won four more games. Wins and Losses over one season say very little all by themselves...and that goes in both leagues. The most important stats are those that are obviously secondary to the voters.
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