July 3, 201016 yr I wanna clarify that not one person here is a bigger JJ fan in this forum than me. I said JJ was our Ace long before he was even considered fully recovered from his surgery and was pitching just 5 innings a game. (I have never been shy to express it even when most everyone else was saying it was Ricky Nolasco) I feel JJ is the better pitcher between Ubaldo and him. However baseball is about overt stats. Its almost like JJ is a batter hitting .325 while Ubaldo is hitting .400, it really doesnt matter how you break down the numbers or who is hitting in front or behind of the hitter, the difference is too overwhelming to be ignored. In that same spirit is whyJimenez would probably be chosen to start over JJ. 14-1 vs 8-3 is a huge significant differnce in record, enough to be a decisive difference...Hey Ubaldo couldnt really have done much better, only one blemish against him. JJ maybe better or just as good but Ubaldo earned it clearly
July 3, 201016 yr I wanna clarify that not one person here is a bigger JJ fan in this forum than me. I said JJ was our Ace long before he was even considered fully recovered from his surgery and was pitching just 5 innings a game. (I have never been shy to express it even when most everyone else was saying it was Ricky Nolasco) I feel JJ is the better pitcher between Ubaldo and him. However baseball is about overt stats. Its almost like JJ is a batter hitting .325 while Ubaldo is hitting .400, it really doesnt matter how you break down the numbers or who is hitting in front or behind of the hitter, the difference is too overwhelming to be ignored. In that same spirit is whyJimenez would probably be chosen to start over JJ. 14-1 vs 8-3 is a huge significant differnce in record, enough to be a decisive difference...Hey Ubaldo couldnt really have done much better, only one blemish against him. JJ maybe better or just as good but Ubaldo earned it clearly But wins and losses are dependent on the team around you. Like tonight, JJ with another quality start, yet he can't win because his team doesn't give him the run support. As has been the case for his last 7 starts now, in terms of sh*tty run support. Ubaldo also doesn't have one of the worst defensive teams in the big leagues behind him...nor is Colorado's bullpen as bad as the Marlins pen. This explains the difference in wins and losses. There's no other explanation; after tonight's start, Josh Johnson now actually has the better ERA, as well.
July 3, 201016 yr I don't know why it is that supposedly JJ gets no run support. He gets 6.67 runs per game. BBRef shows 5.27 but regardless that's fine in terms of run support. I got my number from ESPN.
July 3, 201016 yr BTW Another no decision for JJ again tonite! Which is why win-loss record is overrated!
July 3, 201016 yr after tonight's start, Josh Johnson now actually has the better ERA, as well. Ubaldo still has the better ERA+. I assume you consider ERA+ a better stat than ERA, right?
July 3, 201016 yr after tonight's start, Josh Johnson now actually has the better ERA, as well. Ubaldo still has the better ERA+. I assume you consider ERA+ a better stat than ERA, right? Yes, but that's not my point. ERA+ is a significant statistic, and so is IP/start. My point, however, is that wins and losses shouldn't be used in the argument. Ubaldo simply plays on a better team. And for what it's worth, his ERA+ could be better because his defense makes plays behind him that the Marlins do not make for Josh Johnson and other pitchers. Hence the reason why Jimenez BABIP has been so low, all year. Statistics actually show JJ's been more dominant, despite all the talk about Jimenez stuff.
July 3, 201016 yr I don't know why it is that supposedly JJ gets no run support. He gets 6.67 runs per game. BBRef shows 5.27 but regardless that's fine in terms of run support. Just a quick side note. League average runs per game is about 4.5 for arguments sake. The Fish have scored above that (5 runs or more) in 6 games of his game, they have scored below that (4 runs or less) in 10 games. The median is 4.
July 3, 201016 yr JJ has 6 no decisions pitching his heart out while Ubaldo only has 1. That is amazing in itself for Jimenez
July 3, 201016 yr JJ has 6 no decisions pitching his heart out while Ubaldo only has 1. That is amazing in itself for Jimenez You just contradicted yourself. How the hell is that so amazing for Jimenez? It's amazing that his team is better?
July 3, 201016 yr I wanna clarify that not one person here is a bigger JJ fan in this forum than me. I said JJ was our Ace long before he was even considered fully recovered from his surgery and was pitching just 5 innings a game. (I have never been shy to express it even when most everyone else was saying it was Ricky Nolasco) I feel JJ is the better pitcher between Ubaldo and him. However baseball is about overt stats. Its almost like JJ is a batter hitting .325 while Ubaldo is hitting .400, it really doesnt matter how you break down the numbers or who is hitting in front or behind of the hitter, the difference is too overwhelming to be ignored. In that same spirit is whyJimenez would probably be chosen to start over JJ. 14-1 vs 8-3 is a huge significant differnce in record, enough to be a decisive difference...Hey Ubaldo couldnt really have done much better, only one blemish against him. JJ maybe better or just as good but Ubaldo earned it clearly No, it really isn't. It's like JJ was hitting .370 and Ubaldo was hitting .370, but Ubaldo's team was in the playoff race and JJ's wasn't.
July 3, 201016 yr after tonight's start, Josh Johnson now actually has the better ERA, as well. Ubaldo still has the better ERA+. I assume you consider ERA+ a better stat than ERA, right? Yes, but that's not my point. ERA+ is a significant statistic, and so is IP/start. My point, however, is that wins and losses shouldn't be used in the argument. Ubaldo simply plays on a better team. And for what it's worth, his ERA+ could be better because his defense makes plays behind him that the Marlins do not make for Josh Johnson and other pitchers. Hence the reason why Jimenez BABIP has been so low, all year. Statistics actually show JJ's been more dominant, despite all the talk about Jimenez stuff. Well, JJ's BABIP is lower than Ubaldo's although JJ's LD% is higher.
July 3, 201016 yr after tonight's start, Josh Johnson now actually has the better ERA, as well. Ubaldo still has the better ERA+. I assume you consider ERA+ a better stat than ERA, right? Yes, but that's not my point. ERA+ is a significant statistic, and so is IP/start. My point, however, is that wins and losses shouldn't be used in the argument. Ubaldo simply plays on a better team. And for what it's worth, his ERA+ could be better because his defense makes plays behind him that the Marlins do not make for Josh Johnson and other pitchers. Hence the reason why Jimenez BABIP has been so low, all year. Statistics actually show JJ's been more dominant, despite all the talk about Jimenez stuff. Well, JJ's BABIP is lower than Ubaldo's although JJ's LD% is higher. Once again we get conflicting numbers. I have JJ at .262 and Ubaldo at .259. Regardless, it's negligible.
July 3, 201016 yr after tonight's start, Josh Johnson now actually has the better ERA, as well. Ubaldo still has the better ERA+. I assume you consider ERA+ a better stat than ERA, right? Yes, but that's not my point. ERA+ is a significant statistic, and so is IP/start. My point, however, is that wins and losses shouldn't be used in the argument. Ubaldo simply plays on a better team. And for what it's worth, his ERA+ could be better because his defense makes plays behind him that the Marlins do not make for Josh Johnson and other pitchers. Hence the reason why Jimenez BABIP has been so low, all year. Statistics actually show JJ's been more dominant, despite all the talk about Jimenez stuff. Well, JJ's BABIP is lower than Ubaldo's although JJ's LD% is higher. Once again we get conflicting numbers. I have JJ at .262 and Ubaldo at .259. Regardless, it's negligible. Ubaldo's has actually gone up to life, it seems. He was in the .220's a couple of starts ago.
July 3, 201016 yr Ubaldo's has actually gone up to life, it seems. He was in the .220's a couple of starts ago. Like a month ago he was in the upper .100's.
July 3, 201016 yr after tonight's start, Josh Johnson now actually has the better ERA, as well. Ubaldo still has the better ERA+. I assume you consider ERA+ a better stat than ERA, right? Yes, but that's not my point. ERA+ is a significant statistic, and so is IP/start. My point, however, is that wins and losses shouldn't be used in the argument. Ubaldo simply plays on a better team. And for what it's worth, his ERA+ could be better because his defense makes plays behind him that the Marlins do not make for Josh Johnson and other pitchers. Hence the reason why Jimenez BABIP has been so low, all year. Statistics actually show JJ's been more dominant, despite all the talk about Jimenez stuff. Well, JJ's BABIP is lower than Ubaldo's although JJ's LD% is higher. Once again we get conflicting numbers. I have JJ at .262 and Ubaldo at .259. Regardless, it's negligible. You're correct. When I saw Ubaldo's I saw the .282 which is his career number. Their BABIP are basically the same and Ubaldo's LD% is 18% vs. JJ's 21%.
July 3, 201016 yr JJ has 6 no decisions pitching his heart out while Ubaldo only has 1. That is amazing in itself for Jimenez You just contradicted yourself. How the hell is that so amazing for Jimenez? It's amazing that his team is better? It is amazing because The Rockies do not score more runs or hit better than the Marlins...Going into tonite Marlins are 3rd in the NL in runs scored while Colorado is 7th. Marlins are 3rd in hitting while Rockies are 7th. Our Woes have been entirely in the bullpen
July 3, 201016 yr JJ has 6 no decisions pitching his heart out while Ubaldo only has 1. That is amazing in itself for Jimenez You just contradicted yourself. How the hell is that so amazing for Jimenez? It's amazing that his team is better? It is amazing because The Rockies do not score more runs or hit better than the Marlins...Going into tonite Marlins are 3rd in the NL in runs scored while Colorado is 7th. Marlins are 3rd in hitting while Rockies are 7th. Our Woes have been entrely in the bullpen The bullpen plays an important part in a pitcher's wins/losses. And I don't really know the #, but just because the Marlins have scored more runs in total, doesn't mean they've scored more for JJ, than Colorado has for Ubaldo. That's another irrelevant statistic...you have to look at how many runs the team's have scored for each starter.
July 3, 201016 yr JJ has 6 no decisions pitching his heart out while Ubaldo only has 1. That is amazing in itself for Jimenez You just contradicted yourself. How the hell is that so amazing for Jimenez? It's amazing that his team is better? It is amazing because The Rockies do not score more runs or hit better than the Marlins...Going into tonite Marlins are 3rd in the NL in runs scored while Colorado is 7th. Marlins are 3rd in hitting while Rockies are 7th. Our Woes have been entrely in the bullpen The bullpen plays an important part in a pitcher's wins/losses. And I don't really know the #, but just because the Marlins have scored more runs in total, doesn't mean they've scored more for JJ, than Colorado has for Ubaldo. That's another irrelevant statistic...you have to look at how many runs the team's have scored for each starter. Then look it up if you are gonna try to make that argument
July 4, 201016 yr Things have gotten more interesting....I was just watching the Giants-Rox game and Ubaldo has allowed 7 ERs already. Decisions, decisions, decisions for Charlie.
July 4, 201016 yr Things have gotten more interesting....I was just watching the Giants-Rox game and Ubaldo has allowed 7 ERs already. Decisions, decisions, decisions for Charlie. His ERA is now 2.27. Hooray for JJ! JJ is 1.83 I believe, I know it's 1.80 something.
July 4, 201016 yr And despite the horrible start Jimenez had tonight, he doesn't get a loss because his team was able to score 8 runs for him. But yeah, win-loss record is totally more impressive than the actual pitcher independent statistics. 14-1...super impressive!.........
July 4, 201016 yr JJ's can jump just as quickly. Remember that. But anyways... it's not this phenomenal fail of run support for JJ. It's the fact that JJ'a win has been blown by the bullpen (and on a couple of occasions it's been a case where the offense didnt show up). It's Ubaldo's luck, not JJ's unluckiness. JJ has a very good record. Anyways, if JJ allowed 1 or less runs in his next start... and his ERA gets lower... this should be no contest mainly because Ubaldo is COLD at the moment.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.