Fire Brandon Hyde!

[pach233]

The definition of insanity is to repeat the same action and expect a different result...

 

Mistake 1: Bring in Tankersely against the same part of the order he miserably failed against yesterday. This is a less egregious mistake but a mistake nonetheless and could have been avoided by letting Sanchez (Anibal) pitch the 7th and Sanches (Brian) pitch the 8th.

 

Mistake 2: Who's the best pitcher in marlins bullpen? Who do you most want pitching with the bases loaded and no out? The situation is screaming for Nunez and yet you bring in the 21 year old rookie (who is being ruined btw) for his 4th ever appearance after he already failed in a similar situation on Monday. God forbid Nunez pitch in an inning other than the 9th.

 

Mistake 3: 3 runs are in, the bases are loaded and still nobody out. Bring Nunez in and try to keep the game f***** tied! Nope, let's bring in Badenhop and forfeit.

 

At the point when Hyde went and got Marinez is the same point when Beinfest, Hill or whoever needed to, should've come in and fired him for single handedly giving the game away. In addition any other coach who didn't suggest bringing in Nunez should have also been fired on the spot. The blame for this game goes towards the antiquated philosophy of only bringing in your closer in the 9th.

 

They "saved" Nunez for so long that by the time it was the "right time" to use him they were down by 5 runs.

 

Fire everybody for being antiquated and backwards and for essentially forfeiting tonight's game.

 

P.S. If Jorge Cantu is still on the team by the end of next week Beinfest and Hill should be fired to.

 

P.P.S. F*** This!

[Anonymous]

I forgot Edwin Rodriguez got ejected...but who's Brandon Hyde?

[Erick]

While I like the idea, no manager in the big leagues uses their closer for 2 full innings anymore. It's just what managers do.

 

Also, mistake 1 wasn't a mistake. He brought in the LOOGY to face Heyward who got a crap hit...Chipper Jones should've been a double play, but Cantu f***ed it up. And McCann's a p***y for what he did. I don't even know how that was allowed; he leaned into the pitch.

 

Something that hasn't been brought up...the Marlins normally bring in Helms to play 3B in the late innings, for defense. With a 3 run lead tonight needing 6 outs for a W, I'm not sure why that wasn't done.

[MrMarlinPride]

What Erick said

 

Close Thread.

[pach233]

While I like the idea, no manager in the big leagues uses their closer for 2 full innings anymore. It's just what managers do.

 

Also, mistake 1 wasn't a mistake. He brought in the LOOGY to face Heyward who got a crap hit...Chipper Jones should've been a double play, but Cantu f***ed it up. And McCann's a p***y for what he did. I don't even know how that was allowed; he leaned into the pitch.

 

Something that hasn't been brought up...the Marlins normally bring in Helms to play 3B in the late innings, for defense. With a 3 run lead tonight needing 6 outs for a W, I'm not sure why that wasn't done.

 

 

Except I'm not even suggesting for him to pitch the full 2 innings. Have him get out of the 8th and then use someone else to come in with the bases empty in the 9th. Yeah it might not work but at least you give yourself a chance to win with your best pieces. As it was you get blown out and never bring in your best relief pitcher.

 

And about mistake 1, the mistake wasn't so much bringing in Tank as it was taking out Sanchez knowing how beat up our bullpen was. You let him come out in the 7th and if he scuffles then you take him out. His place in the batting order came up with nobody on and 2 out IIRC so you're essentially wasting a pinch hitter by removing him there.

[Erick]

While I like the idea, no manager in the big leagues uses their closer for 2 full innings anymore. It's just what managers do.

 

Also, mistake 1 wasn't a mistake. He brought in the LOOGY to face Heyward who got a crap hit...Chipper Jones should've been a double play, but Cantu f***ed it up. And McCann's a p***y for what he did. I don't even know how that was allowed; he leaned into the pitch.

 

Something that hasn't been brought up...the Marlins normally bring in Helms to play 3B in the late innings, for defense. With a 3 run lead tonight needing 6 outs for a W, I'm not sure why that wasn't done.

 

 

Except I'm not even suggesting for him to pitch the full 2 innings. Have him get out of the 8th and then use someone else to come in with the bases empty in the 9th. Yeah it might not work but at least you give yourself a chance to win with your best pieces. As it was you get blown out and never bring in your best relief pitcher.

 

And about mistake 1, the mistake wasn't so much bringing in Tank as it was taking out Sanchez knowing how beat up our bullpen was. You let him come out in the 7th and if he scuffles then you take him out. His place in the batting order came up with nobody on and 2 out IIRC so you're essentially wasting a pinch hitter by removing him there.

 

Baseball is a business, and things no longer work that way. Leo Nunez has been labeled the closer, thus his role is to get saves. As a fan, it's what we scream for and want to see, but at the end of the day, these players want some money when arbritration rolls around, and their agents do, as well. The more saves, the better case one can make, if you're a reliever. Those things just never happen anymore. Plus, even if you use that scenario, and Leo actually gets out of the 8th (which is no guarantee, despite the fact he was the best option), you still run into the same problems in the 9th.

 

Regarding Sanches starting the 8th, he had already gone multiple innings yesterday. This goes back to what I've been saying; despite the fact it was a quality start, Anibal only went 6 innings. When your pitchers are only giving you an average of 6 on a consistent basis, you need a bullpen with depth. We don't have that, right now. This game is probably won if Veras and Hensley are available, but that wasn't the case. Actually, at the end of the day, the game is won if Cantu makes some routine plays.

[pach233]

Agreed with what you said above about the business of baseball and I understand abouthe saves and arbitration but the manager needs to also do his job and put his team in the best position to win. That clearly was to bring in Nunez and it wasn't done today. Erick, while I may not post often, I read these forums enough to have read you write about how most anyone can do the manager's job. Today was one of those games were almost anybody on this board could have done a better job than the one that was done.

 

I think you misunderstood about Sanchez. I meant Anibal should have been left another inning not Brian. I agree with what you said about the use of Brian Sanches and that the game would've been won if Veras and Hensley would have been available

[Erick]

Agreed with what you said above about the business of baseball and I understand abouthe saves and arbitration but the manager needs to also do his job and put his team in the best position to win. That clearly was to bring in Nunez and it wasn't done today. Erick, while I may not post often, I read these forums enough to have read you write about how most anyone can do the manager's job. Today was one of those games were almost anybody on this board could have done a better job than the one that was done.

 

I think you misunderstood about Sanchez. I meant Anibal should have been left another inning not Brian. I agree with what you said about the use of Brian Sanches and that the game would've been won if Veras and Hensley would have been available

 

 

 

The Anibal Sanchez scenario isn't really as simple as Tommy Hutton made it sound, however.

 

Fact is, Anibal labored through most of his innings. He was getting better as the game went on, but that's besides the point. Maybe if it were another pitcher I would definitely agree, but out of the starting pitchers, Anibal is the one the organization, I'm sure, is most cautious with. He had 100 pitches through 6 I believe. Anibal's had a nice year; the last thing the organization wants is to stretch him out so much that he starts getting arm troubles, again. I'm almost positive that Anibal's past had something to do with that decision. He's had a torn labrum before, and you don't want to play around with that, with a young arm like Anibal.

 

I have said just about anyone can make most managerial decisions, but I actually thought that was a tough one. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have done much different than what was done tonight. The one thing I would've done was taken Cantu out of the game with a 3 run lead in the 8th, for defense. That's actually something that's usually done, and it would have provided the team with a W in tonight's game. That, to me, ended up being the biggest mistake.

 

All things considered, I can't fault the way the pitching was handled too much. It can be questioned, sure, and I won't say you're wrong about what you're saying, but if it were a debate, I'd say Edwin, Hyde/the organization could make a good case for the pitching moves that were made tonight, as well.

[miamibaseball]

only thing i have say REBUILD THE BULLPEN their only few that are good rest cannot find K ZONE i was at game i saw too many balls thrown by guy came in from bullpen their donot fell comfort on mound i dont why their big leaguer we need add arms that you know will help team untill time for closer to come in we didnt have that last night this could have been win

[Hammerhead]

While I like the idea, no manager in the big leagues uses their closer for 2 full innings anymore. It's just what managers do.

 

Also, mistake 1 wasn't a mistake. He brought in the LOOGY to face Heyward who got a crap hit...Chipper Jones should've been a double play, but Cantu f***ed it up. And McCann's a p***y for what he did. I don't even know how that was allowed; he leaned into the pitch.

 

Something that hasn't been brought up...the Marlins normally bring in Helms to play 3B in the late innings, for defense. With a 3 run lead tonight needing 6 outs for a W, I'm not sure why that wasn't done.

 

It usually isn't.

[BroncoBob27]

While I like the idea, no manager in the big leagues uses their closer for 2 full innings anymore. It's just what managers do.

 

Also, mistake 1 wasn't a mistake. He brought in the LOOGY to face Heyward who got a crap hit...Chipper Jones should've been a double play, but Cantu f***ed it up. And McCann's a p***y for what he did. I don't even know how that was allowed; he leaned into the pitch.

 

Something that hasn't been brought up...the Marlins normally bring in Helms to play 3B in the late innings, for defense. With a 3 run lead tonight needing 6 outs for a W, I'm not sure why that wasn't done.

 

 

Cantu had a terrible glove night. No question there. Also on that throw, that was an easy one to dig out of the dirt. Just wasn't done, again.

 

I could see from where I was sitting that he leaned into that pitch. The radio announcers were complaining that he made no attempt to get out of the way. I thought I was the only one to see him lean into it, or that I saw something that didn't happen.

 

But now, according to the first post of this thread, basically fire everybody? Yea, right. "Managers don't decide outcomes of games unless we lose."???

[BroncoBob27]

Agreed with what you said above about the business of baseball and I understand abouthe saves and arbitration but the manager needs to also do his job and put his team in the best position to win. That clearly was to bring in Nunez and it wasn't done today. Erick, while I may not post often, I read these forums enough to have read you write about how most anyone can do the manager's job. Today was one of those games were almost anybody on this board could have done a better job than the one that was done.

 

I think you misunderstood about Sanchez. I meant Anibal should have been left another inning not Brian. I agree with what you said about the use of Brian Sanches and that the game would've been won if Veras and Hensley would have been available

 

 

 

The Anibal Sanchez scenario isn't really as simple as Tommy Hutton made it sound, however.

 

Fact is, Anibal labored through most of his innings. He was getting better as the game went on, but that's besides the point. Maybe if it were another pitcher I would definitely agree, but out of the starting pitchers, Anibal is the one the organization, I'm sure, is most cautious with. He had 100 pitches through 6 I believe. Anibal's had a nice year; the last thing the organization wants is to stretch him out so much that he starts getting arm troubles, again. I'm almost positive that Anibal's past had something to do with that decision. He's had a torn labrum before, and you don't want to play around with that, with a young arm like Anibal.

 

I have said just about anyone can make most managerial decisions, but I actually thought that was a tough one. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have done much different than what was done tonight. The one thing I would've done was taken Cantu out of the game with a 3 run lead in the 8th, for defense. That's actually something that's usually done, and it would have provided the team with a W in tonight's game. That, to me, ended up being the biggest mistake.

 

All things considered, I can't fault the way the pitching was handled too much. It can be questioned, sure, and I won't say you're wrong about what you're saying, but if it were a debate, I'd say Edwin, Hyde/the organization could make a good case for the pitching moves that were made tonight, as well.

 

And only 58 for strikes. Plus I think only one inning was a 1-2-3. But this game went beyond that. It goes to the other starters, including Mr Stud himself, only going about 6 innings each start with high pitch counts. That leaves us with games like this one where certain pitchers aren't available. As Fredi would tell you, it's impossible to manage a bull pen you don't have.

 

This is why I never liked the definition of 6 innings being a quality start. It's a good start. 7 Innings is a quality start.

[flsportsfan83]

only thing i have say REBUILD THE BULLPEN their only few that are good rest cannot find K ZONE i was at game i saw too many balls thrown by guy came in from bullpen their donot fell comfort on mound i dont why their big leaguer we need add arms that you know will help team untill time for closer to come in we didnt have that last night this could have been win

 

 

Where is the grammar police?

[...]

Where is the grammar police?

 

:lol

 

Right here.

 

I temporarily appoint myself a grammar policeman:

 

"Are," not "is," "police" is plural in your usage.

 

At least you spelled "grammar" correctly, it usually appears as "grammer" in posts objecting to usage.

 

Although you do have a point, grammatically made or not.

[dom2613]

The only guy who Ive seen over the years get used for 5 or 6 outs is Mariano.

[bobbob1313]

During the postseason, yes, but rarely in te regular season.

[Out of the Past]

Brian Wilson says hi.

[Fishes on the Pond]

While I like the idea, no manager in the big leagues uses their closer for 2 full innings anymore. It's just what managers do.

 

Also, mistake 1 wasn't a mistake. He brought in the LOOGY to face Heyward who got a crap hit...Chipper Jones should've been a double play, but Cantu f***ed it up. And McCann's a p***y for what he did. I don't even know how that was allowed; he leaned into the pitch.

 

Something that hasn't been brought up...the Marlins normally bring in Helms to play 3B in the late innings, for defense. With a 3 run lead tonight needing 6 outs for a W, I'm not sure why that wasn't done.

 

 

Except I'm not even suggesting for him to pitch the full 2 innings. Have him get out of the 8th and then use someone else to come in with the bases empty in the 9th. Yeah it might not work but at least you give yourself a chance to win with your best pieces. As it was you get blown out and never bring in your best relief pitcher.

 

And about mistake 1, the mistake wasn't so much bringing in Tank as it was taking out Sanchez knowing how beat up our bullpen was. You let him come out in the 7th and if he scuffles then you take him out. His place in the batting order came up with nobody on and 2 out IIRC so you're essentially wasting a pinch hitter by removing him there.

 

Baseball is a business, and things no longer work that way. Leo Nunez has been labeled the closer, thus his role is to get saves. As a fan, it's what we scream for and want to see, but at the end of the day, these players want some money when arbritration rolls around, and their agents do, as well. The more saves, the better case one can make, if you're a reliever. Those things just never happen anymore. Plus, even if you use that scenario, and Leo actually gets out of the 8th (which is no guarantee, despite the fact he was the best option), you still run into the same problems in the 9th.

 

Regarding Sanches starting the 8th, he had already gone multiple innings yesterday. This goes back to what I've been saying; despite the fact it was a quality start, Anibal only went 6 innings. When your pitchers are only giving you an average of 6 on a consistent basis, you need a bullpen with depth. We don't have that, right now. This game is probably won if Veras and Hensley are available, but that wasn't the case. Actually, at the end of the day, the game is won if Cantu makes some routine plays.

 

Get rid of him :mad

[heat84]

I forgot Edwin Rodriguez got ejected...but who's Brandon Hyde?

 

He's the interim bench coach and was the manager after Rodriquez got ejected.

[Erick]

The only guy who Ive seen over the years get used for 5 or 6 outs is Mariano.

 

 

 

Brian Wilson's done it plenty of times this year. I'd like to see the Marlins try it with Leo Nunez a bit more often. He's clearly the best reliever on the team.

[Erick]

While I like the idea, no manager in the big leagues uses their closer for 2 full innings anymore. It's just what managers do.

 

Also, mistake 1 wasn't a mistake. He brought in the LOOGY to face Heyward who got a crap hit...Chipper Jones should've been a double play, but Cantu f***ed it up. And McCann's a p***y for what he did. I don't even know how that was allowed; he leaned into the pitch.

 

Something that hasn't been brought up...the Marlins normally bring in Helms to play 3B in the late innings, for defense. With a 3 run lead tonight needing 6 outs for a W, I'm not sure why that wasn't done.

 

 

Cantu had a terrible glove night. No question there. Also on that throw, that was an easy one to dig out of the dirt. Just wasn't done, again.

 

I could see from where I was sitting that he leaned into that pitch. The radio announcers were complaining that he made no attempt to get out of the way. I thought I was the only one to see him lean into it, or that I saw something that didn't happen.

 

But now, according to the first post of this thread, basically fire everybody? Yea, right. "Managers don't decide outcomes of games unless we lose."???

 

 

You always find a way to knock on Gaby's defense, don't you? That was not "an easy one to dig out of the dirt." It was a crap throw. You must be spoiled by the Derek Lee years, or something.

[Rabbethan]

I half agree with BroncoBob. While I don't think it was an easy pick, it was one that should have been made (and one that Gaby makes).

[YearOneMarlinFan]

I half agree with BroncoBob. While I don't think it was an easy pick, it was one that should have been made (and one that Gaby makes).

 

If I remember right, it was an in between hope. Gaby thought it was going low and it bounced high. It could have been caught I suppose but it looked like a tough play to me.

 

(The cat stepped on the keyboard.)

[Rabbethan]

Regardless, Cantu made 3 mistakes on that play.

 

1) Dropped the ball in the first place.

2) Didn't notice that the runner between 1st and 2nd held in case he caught it on the fly, so he still had the play at 2nd. That was actually the easier play.

3) Rushed a throw to 1B and threw it into the dirt.

[YearOneMarlinFan]

Regardless, Cantu made 3 mistakes on that play.

 

1) Dropped the ball in the first place.

2) Didn't notice that the runner between 1st and 2nd held in case he caught it on the fly, so he still had the play at 2nd. That was actually the easier play.

3) Rushed a throw to 1B and threw it into the dirt.

 

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I was a Cantu-keeper until this game. Now I'm sure we can't afford his defense any longer. I was just defending Gaby for not making the pick.