November 26, 200322 yr We're gonna get the money outta your a$$,lol,we'll find a way you'll see. Sorry but I don't find that to be a very convincing argument in your favor.
November 26, 200322 yr We're gonna get the money outta your a$$,lol,we'll find a way you'll see. Sorry but I don't find that to be a very convincing argument in your favor. Do i care....................NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dork.
November 26, 200322 yr We're gonna get the money outta your a$$,lol,we'll find a way you'll see. Sorry but I don't find that to be a very convincing argument in your favor. Do i care....................NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dork. Heyy!!!!
November 26, 200322 yr Mines :lol Don't be so critical of grammer and spelling. It's not very nice and it may hurt others feelings and hurt their families.
November 26, 200322 yr We're gonna get the money outta your a$$,lol,we'll find a way you'll see. Sorry but I don't find that to be a very convincing argument in your favor. Do i care....................NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dork. Most childish post ever...
November 26, 200322 yr We're gonna get the money outta your a$$,lol,we'll find a way you'll see. Sorry but I don't find that to be a very convincing argument in your favor. Do i care....................NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dork. Most childish post ever... Hence my absence of a response to it.
November 26, 200322 yr We're gonna get the money outta your a$$,lol,we'll find a way you'll see. Sorry but I don't find that to be a very convincing argument in your favor. Do i care....................NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dork. Most childish post ever... Hence my absence of a response to it. I'm still trying to get over "Mines is this......"
November 26, 200322 yr We're gonna get the money outta your a$$,lol,we'll find a way you'll see. Sorry but I don't find that to be a very convincing argument in your favor. Do i care....................NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dork. Most childish post ever... Hence my absence of a response to it. I'm still trying to get over "Mines is this......" Those are the classic Willis#1 arguements... :lol
November 26, 200322 yr here's all i'll venture to say for now: pudge castillo lowell 2 of those 3 men will be back. enc is gone. redman penny pavano 2 of those 3 men will be back. all other SPs are safe. uggy is 100% gone.? i don't know what the deal is with loop, but i think he'll be back. the rest of the bench and the bullpen is really anybody's guess at this point. I can agree with you...Who will be the fifth starter? that's a huuuge question mark, which i can't really figure out to tell you the truth. we really don't have a reliable #5 starter. i don't know how phelps would do, tejera makes me gag, and helling really isn't worth signing for his mediocre starting ability. my guess is, finding a decent SP should be pretty high in our offseason priority list along with upgrading the bullpen. to tell you the truth, i don't really see how easily we can procure a "decent" SP considering how little he would have to be paid. ideas, anyone? dude, i think you just listed the points to why a fifth starter is NOT a huge question, the fact that we do have phelps, helling and tejera....remember, we were spoiled last year having pavano as our number 5 who could come out with ace stuff....phelps was solid when we needed him, tejera shows flashes of being good and helling as proved that he can win games....and remember, they only need to pitch for a couple of months before AJ comes back, im not worried bout the rotation, especially since beckett, penny and pavz are gonna be awesome (knock on wood)
November 26, 200322 yr If you ignore that fool... More and more I dont want Pudge to return. I know when the season started, he would be here one year and gone - but I thought should we win, he might stay. We won, we won it all - but still he treats us like a prostitute - uses us and collects his things and leaves. I dont have any emotional attachment here, and truthfully, he wont be that necessary for this team to continue winning. In fact, I think he would be more of a problem financially because he is going to age, and as soon as he gets the multi-year deal, I feel he is going to have some injury problems and be less motivated to play. I say we pass, and I think Beinfest and Loria are taking that stance and waiting if Boras should call them Dec. 6 with a desperation offer. At which time the Marlins could drive the price down further because they are the only suitors for Pudge at this point if Lopez wouldnt have signed yet. Once Lopez signs, the market is set for Pudge and he will get less money than Lopez. Lopez is not going to get $10M per year, so Pudge wont either. This is playing to the Marlins' advantage.
November 26, 200322 yr pudge castillo lowell 2 of those 3 men will be back. enc is gone. redman penny pavano 2 of those 3 men will be back. all other SPs are safe. my guess is, finding a decent SP should be pretty high in our offseason priority list along with upgrading the bullpen.? to tell you the truth, i don't really see how easily we can procure a "decent" SP considering how little he would have to be paid. ideas, anyone? i can't imagine why they wouldn't be able to keep all the starters, ESPECIALLY if they lose Pudge/Castillo/Lowell as you predict.here's why we can't keep all of our starters, even though we lose a pudge/lowell/castillo. we will have 60 mil - 8 - 3 = 49 mil for player salary. here are some numbers from a spreadsheet i've been playing with recently. this is our "lose castillo" scenario: Ivan Rodriguez 8.5 Hee Seop Choi 0.3 Random veteran 2b 4.0 Alex Gonzalez 3.1 Mike Lowell 7.5 Miguel Cabrera 0.4 Juan Pierre 2.3 Jeff Conine 3.0 TOTAL POSITION 29.1 Mark Redman 3.2 Carl Pavano 2.5 Josh Beckett 2.3 Brad Penny 3.0 Dontrelle Willis 0.4 A.J. Burnett 3.0 TOTAL SP 14.4 which means we have already spent 29.1 + 14.4 = 43.5 mil on position players and starting pitchers. that gives us 5.5 mil TOTAL to spend on the entire bullpen and the entire bench. all numbers (except pudge, lowell, & random veteran 2b) are from http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-mar...la-sports-front. i guesstimated pudge & lowell at pretty conservative prices. if you'd like, you can knock off 1 mil off of "random 2b" and you'd still only have 6.5 for your entire bullpen and your entire bench. that's why it's numerically impossible for us to keep lowell, castillo, AND pudge. the best way to clear up a few million to fund the bullpen and bench would be to trade redman while his trade value is at his career high, and that's really the only choice they marlins have, especially if AJ comes back during the 2nd half of 2004. it'd be foolish to keep 6 SPs, so why miss out on a golden opportunity to cash in on redman? we won't be able to keep the entire starting rotation. i don't like to speak in definitives, but i'm pretty sure of that.
November 26, 200322 yr Look at my signature We are not going to dump Lowell for Vlad... Beyond stupidity...
November 26, 200322 yr If you ignore that fool... More and more I dont want Pudge to return. I know when the season started, he would be here one year and gone - but I thought should we win, he might stay. We won, we won it all - but still he treats us like a prostitute - uses us and collects his things and leaves. I dont have any emotional attachment here, and truthfully, he wont be that necessary for this team to continue winning. In fact, I think he would be more of a problem financially because he is going to age, and as soon as he gets the multi-year deal, I feel he is going to have some injury problems and be less motivated to play. I say we pass, and I think Beinfest and Loria are taking that stance and waiting if Boras should call them Dec. 6 with a desperation offer. At which time the Marlins could drive the price down further because they are the only suitors for Pudge at this point if Lopez wouldnt have signed yet. Once Lopez signs, the market is set for Pudge and he will get less money than Lopez. Lopez is not going to get $10M per year, so Pudge wont either. This is playing to the Marlins' advantage. Everyone talks like Pudge has betrayed us. That's BS. Professional athletes, like in every other profession, try to get the most money they can. An agent's job is the best deal his client can get. It's the way professional sports works and it's how it will continue to work, get over it.
November 26, 200322 yr dude, i think you just listed the points to why a fifth starter is NOT a huge question, the fact that we do have phelps, helling and tejera....remember, we were spoiled last year having pavano as our number 5 who could come out with ace stuff....phelps was solid when we needed him, tejera shows flashes of being good and helling as proved that he can win games....and remember, they only need to pitch for a couple of months before AJ comes back, im not worried bout the rotation, especially since beckett, penny and pavz are gonna be awesome (knock on wood) you're 100% correct. at this point it looks like phelps is our best choice, and considering their salaries, either he or tejera are really our only options. you're right, i got a little spoiled there. oh, and btw, we don't have helling (he's a FA).
November 26, 200322 yr I would like to reiterate.... Lowell and Castillo > Guerrero Thank you! At least someone on this board has common sense...
November 26, 200322 yr I would like to reiterate.... Lowell and Castillo >? Guerrero Thank you! At least someone on this board has common sense... Too many people around here think things like "who needs our starting 2b and 3b from last year when we can have Vlad!!!!"
November 26, 200322 yr I would like to reiterate.... Lowell and Castillo > Guerrero Thank you! At least someone on this board has common sense... and less expensive! :w00t
November 26, 200322 yr I would like to reiterate.... Lowell and Castillo >? Guerrero Thank you! At least someone on this board has common sense... Too many people around here think things like "who needs our starting 2b and 3b from last year when we can have Vlad!!!!" I think many have been blinded by the chance at getting a superstar and have forgotten how we won the World Series in the first place.
November 26, 200322 yr I would like to reiterate.... Lowell and Castillo >? Guerrero Thank you! At least someone on this board has common sense... Too many people around here think things like "who needs our starting 2b and 3b from last year when we can have Vlad!!!!" dude, i can think of only 4 people on this board who are gung ho about vlad. the vast majority of people here realize it's not realistic, and even those in the vlad boat know that it'd take a s***load of cuts to accommodate him.
November 26, 200322 yr pudge castillo lowell 2 of those 3 men will be back. enc is gone. redman penny pavano 2 of those 3 men will be back. all other SPs are safe. my guess is, finding a decent SP should be pretty high in our offseason priority list along with upgrading the bullpen.? to tell you the truth, i don't really see how easily we can procure a "decent" SP considering how little he would have to be paid. ideas, anyone? i can't imagine why they wouldn't be able to keep all the starters, ESPECIALLY if they lose Pudge/Castillo/Lowell as you predict.here's why we can't keep all of our starters, even though we lose a pudge/lowell/castillo. we will have 60 mil - 8 - 3 = 49 mil for player salary. here are some numbers from a spreadsheet i've been playing with recently. this is our "lose castillo" scenario: Ivan Rodriguez 8.5 Hee Seop Choi 0.3 Random veteran 2b 4.0 Alex Gonzalez 3.1 Mike Lowell 7.5 Miguel Cabrera 0.4 Juan Pierre 2.3 Jeff Conine 3.0 TOTAL POSITION 29.1 Mark Redman 3.2 Carl Pavano 2.5 Josh Beckett 2.3 Brad Penny 3.0 Dontrelle Willis 0.4 A.J. Burnett 3.0 TOTAL SP 14.4 which means we have already spent 29.1 + 14.4 = 43.5 mil on position players and starting pitchers. that gives us 5.5 mil TOTAL to spend on the entire bullpen and the entire bench. all numbers (except pudge, lowell, & random veteran 2b) are from http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-mar...la-sports-front. i guesstimated pudge & lowell at pretty conservative prices. if you'd like, you can knock off 1 mil off of "random 2b" and you'd still only have 6.5 for your entire bullpen and your entire bench. that's why it's numerically impossible for us to keep lowell, castillo, AND pudge. the best way to clear up a few million to fund the bullpen and bench would be to trade redman while his trade value is at his career high, and that's really the only choice they marlins have, especially if AJ comes back during the 2nd half of 2004. it'd be foolish to keep 6 SPs, so why miss out on a golden opportunity to cash in on redman? we won't be able to keep the entire starting rotation. i don't like to speak in definitives, but i'm pretty sure of that. I think we will get rid of Redman. That's 3.2 Million. That might be able cover our whole bench. So we'd be getting closer.
November 27, 200322 yr If you ignore that fool... More and more I dont want Pudge to return. I know when the season started, he would be here one year and gone - but I thought should we win, he might stay. We won, we won it all - but still he treats us like a prostitute - uses us and collects his things and leaves. I dont have any emotional attachment here, and truthfully, he wont be that necessary for this team to continue winning. In fact, I think he would be more of a problem financially because he is going to age, and as soon as he gets the multi-year deal, I feel he is going to have some injury problems and be less motivated to play. I say we pass, and I think Beinfest and Loria are taking that stance and waiting if Boras should call them Dec. 6 with a desperation offer. At which time the Marlins could drive the price down further because they are the only suitors for Pudge at this point if Lopez wouldnt have signed yet. Once Lopez signs, the market is set for Pudge and he will get less money than Lopez. Lopez is not going to get $10M per year, so Pudge wont either. This is playing to the Marlins' advantage. Everyone talks like Pudge has betrayed us. That's BS. Professional athletes, like in every other profession, try to get the most money they can. An agent's job is the best deal his client can get. It's the way professional sports works and it's how it will continue to work, get over it. I agree. I don't know why everyone is dumping on Pudge. He and Boras think he is worth a certain amount. If they get that amount, they'll be right, and the player and team will be happy. If they're wrong, they may re-sign with Florida for less money. Face it, athletes play for money. Whether we like it or not.
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