June 5, 201214 yr Also, the Nationals are not as great as you say. They were a top farm system and the Gio Gonzalez trade put them toward the middle of the pack. http://www.minorleag...kings-prospects You make it sound like they're loaded and can give any prospect away just because they're so awesome at every level. Do you deny that barring horrible injuries to Harper & Strausburg the Nationals will be the team to beat not only in the NL East but in all the NL by 2014 ? Taking those guys out of their system and they are middle of the pack. You take Stanton and Morrison from ours and we are ranked bottom 5. Dude that makes my point :rock Your point about the Nationals was: "it's not just Strasburg and Harper." Well, quite frankly, it is. The reason why the Nationals might be the team to beat in the NL by 2014 or whatever is because they had the 1st pick in drafts that had generational talents in them. Calling their front office a bunch of geniuses makes no sense considering we could've told them to select Strasburg and Harper if we worked for them, and we probably have no business working for a big-league organization. You're basically proving my point. (and taking things out of context, in the process) Morrison doesn't even belong in this conversation. If anything, why not call the Marlins geniuses for selecting a quality hitter in the 22nd round of the draft? That's way more difficult than selecting Strasburg/Harper talents when they're flat out handed to you for being the worst.
June 5, 201214 yr Stanton and Morrison aren't in the farm, though. They're not prospects any more. They're Major League players. This was actually my point with the last post, but he took things out of context. He said that the Nationals could afford to overpay for Gio because the rest of their farm system was still loaded with talent or whatever when, fact is, that overpayment put the Nationals toward the middle of the pack, in terms of farm systems. Stanton, Morrison, Strasburg, Harper, etc. aren't considered as part of the farm system anymore. And, to be fair, the link I provided was before Harper's promotion so they're even worse now.
June 5, 201214 yr Does Erick really need to keep pointing out the fact that we've got quality MLB players on the MLB roster right this second that we drafted after the first round? I mean, seriously? Why are we going in circles here? Just because someone busts on a first round pick doesn't mean he didn't find a gem in the second round or later [see - 2007, which you still can't call Dominguez a bust yet]. Stop being stubborn. Dominguez is close to a bust. Hitting .225 and an OPS of .617 in AAA is not great. He's been a professional for 5 seasons now. Time is running out on him. OK, but even then, that's still proving my point that you can fail in the first round and find a gem in the second. But what's wrong with hitting in the 1st and 2nd ? DOH ! Just because you hit in the 1st, doesn't mean you fail in the 2nd.
June 5, 201214 yr Stanton and Morrison aren't in the farm, though. They're not prospects any more. They're Major League players. Exactly, even when they were in our system we were middle of the pack. Take them out and we are bottom feeders. The Nationals took Harper & Strausburg out and they are middle of the pack. That means they have more to trade with and had the ammunition to out bid us for Gonzalez. Even with that trade they are still better off than our system.
June 5, 201214 yr Also, the Nationals are not as great as you say. They were a top farm system and the Gio Gonzalez trade put them toward the middle of the pack. http://www.minorleag...kings-prospects You make it sound like they're loaded and can give any prospect away just because they're so awesome at every level. Do you deny that barring horrible injuries to Harper & Strausburg the Nationals will be the team to beat not only in the NL East but in all the NL by 2014 ? Taking those guys out of their system and they are middle of the pack. You take Stanton and Morrison from ours and we are ranked bottom 5. Dude that makes my point :rock Your point about the Nationals was: "it's not just Strasburg and Harper." Well, quite frankly, it is. The reason why the Nationals might be the team to beat in the NL by 2014 or whatever is because they had the 1st pick in drafts that had generational talents in them. Calling their front office a bunch of geniuses makes no sense considering we could've told them to select Strasburg and Harper if we worked for them, and we probably have no business working for a big-league organization. You're basically proving my point. (and taking things out of context, in the process) Morrison doesn't even belong in this conversation. If anything, why not call the Marlins geniuses for selecting a quality hitter in the 22nd round of the draft? That's way more difficult than selecting Strasburg/Harper talents when they're flat out handed to you for being the worst. There front office isn't good because they took Strausburg & Harper, they are good because of all the other picks that they have made and have their system in the middle of the pack even without their studs. You take our best out and we are bottom feeders. Case closed, their front office & system is superior to ours.
June 5, 201214 yr Stanton and Morrison aren't in the farm, though. They're not prospects any more. They're Major League players. This was actually my point with the last post, but he took things out of context. He said that the Nationals could afford to overpay for Gio because the rest of their farm system was still loaded with talent or whatever when, fact is, that overpayment put the Nationals toward the middle of the pack, in terms of farm systems. Stanton, Morrison, Strasburg, Harper, etc. aren't considered as part of the farm system anymore. And, to be fair, the link I provided was before Harper's promotion so they're even worse now. They still HAD the ammunition to get Gonzalez and we didn't. We never had enough to get him because our system was devoid of MLB talent. How you can argue against that is beyond me. We will just have to agree to disagree on this subject.
June 5, 201214 yr Also, you're not taking signability issues into account. It's not necessarily Beinfest fault that he's had limitations to work with. And you're ignoring this completely ... Signability is not an excuse, there are plenty of players other than those who use Boras. Yes, it is. Not every team spends the same way in the draft. Then if that is the case then Loria is to blame. At least you cleared that up.
June 5, 201214 yr I still don't understand why he refuses to acknowledge the fact that some very good players on this team were drafted outside of the first round.
June 5, 201214 yr Does Erick really need to keep pointing out the fact that we've got quality MLB players on the MLB roster right this second that we drafted after the first round? I mean, seriously? Why are we going in circles here? Just because someone busts on a first round pick doesn't mean he didn't find a gem in the second round or later [see - 2007, which you still can't call Dominguez a bust yet]. Stop being stubborn. Dominguez is close to a bust. Hitting .225 and an OPS of .617 in AAA is not great. He's been a professional for 5 seasons now. Time is running out on him. OK, but even then, that's still proving my point that you can fail in the first round and find a gem in the second. But what's wrong with hitting in the 1st and 2nd ? DOH ! Just because you hit in the 1st, doesn't mean you fail in the 2nd. You, yourself, admitted that the draft is a crapshoot. There's nothing wrong with what you said; it's just extremely difficult.
June 5, 201214 yr Stanton and Morrison aren't in the farm, though. They're not prospects any more. They're Major League players. Exactly, even when they were in our system we were middle of the pack. Take them out and we are bottom feeders. The Nationals took Harper & Strausburg out and they are middle of the pack. That means they have more to trade with and had the ammunition to out bid us for Gonzalez. Even with that trade they are still better off than our system. You are not comprehending very well.
June 5, 201214 yr Stanton and Morrison aren't in the farm, though. They're not prospects any more. They're Major League players. This was actually my point with the last post, but he took things out of context. He said that the Nationals could afford to overpay for Gio because the rest of their farm system was still loaded with talent or whatever when, fact is, that overpayment put the Nationals toward the middle of the pack, in terms of farm systems. Stanton, Morrison, Strasburg, Harper, etc. aren't considered as part of the farm system anymore. And, to be fair, the link I provided was before Harper's promotion so they're even worse now. They still HAD the ammunition to get Gonzalez and we didn't. We never had enough to get him because our system was devoid of MLB talent. How you can argue against that is beyond me. We will just have to agree to disagree on this subject. We certainly do have the talent in the system to acquire a Gio Gonzalez right now. Whether or not the talent matches what the other team needs is a different story. Yelich, Fernandez, Conley, James, Dominguez, relief prospects, etc. would all be intriguing to other teams. Yelich and Fernandez, in particular, are becoming top prospects after what they've done this year. Since the Nationals are so awesome, why don't you give us some names so we know the players you're talking about? (can't include Strasburg and Harper, since you keep saying they're still very good excluding those guys)
June 5, 201214 yr By the way, the Rays drafted Andrew Heaney before the Marlins did. Silly them. I'm glad they didn't. I like the pick. But history shows, because Beinfest picked him in the 1st round, he will be a bust. Causation! Correlation! Yaaaaaay!
June 5, 201214 yr The front office that gave a 32-year-old Jayson Werth a seven-year, $126 million contract should not be held up by anyone as a gold standard.
June 5, 201214 yr The front office that gave a 32-year-old Jayson Werth a seven-year, $126 million contract should not be held up by anyone as a gold standard. GENIUSES!
June 6, 201214 yr If Giancarlo had been drafted in the first round rather than the second, would we still have been inundated with all of this bulls***?
June 6, 201214 yr If Giancarlo had been drafted in the first round rather than the second, would we still have been inundated with all of this bulls***? Yes, because he'd be a bust, obviously.
June 8, 201214 yr If Giancarlo had been drafted in the first round rather than the second, would we still have been inundated with all of this bulls***? Yes, because he'd be a bust, obviously. Bahahahaha. Very nice.
June 19, 201214 yr Author Andrew Heaney is 155 pounds... my God. Btw this thread was entertaining to read tonight, I am disappointed I missed it when it actually happened though. I was wondering where the "crapshoot" usage came from.
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