New park location cuts off 40% of Marlin's previous fan base.

 

Marlin's plan to replace them with a Hispanic base has failed.

 

The only hope for significant attendance is HIspanic ownership of the team.

 

TV ratings show that the Marlins no longer have a real fan base.

 

 

I lived in Lake Worth when I was in FLA last year (I assume to cut off you're talking about is PB county) , and went to the new park more times than I did at Sun Life... The park is so far superior to sun life that the extra 15-20 minutes driving is more than worth it.

... doesn't work for the team. He is just a fan like the rest of us.

 

 

I really can't ever recall him ever discussing the team so is he a fan of the team or Loria ?

 

 

He's a fan of the team. Just because he takes the opposing view of the majority doesn't make him any less of a fan of the team.

 

 

 

 

You didn't really answer the question though, does he ever discuss the team on the field ?

... doesn't work for the team. He is just a fan like the rest of us.

 

 

I really can't ever recall him ever discussing the team so is he a fan of the team or Loria ?

 

 

He's a fan of the team. Just because he takes the opposing view of the majority doesn't make him any less of a fan of the team.

 

 

 

 

You didn't really answer the question though, does he ever discuss the team on the field ?

 

 

 

 

I don't read every post here so I don't know if he has. It's insignificant though if he has.

New park location cuts off 40% of Marlin's previous fan base.

 

Marlin's plan to replace them with a Hispanic base has failed.

 

The only hope for significant attendance is HIspanic ownership of the team.

 

TV ratings show that the Marlins no longer have a real fan base.

 

 

A hispanic (mostly Cuban) fanbase that was turned off by the manager last year because of idiotic statements made by a hot headed manager. Loria is to blame for that as Ozzie is what Ozzie is, and he got exactly what he bargained for.

A hispanic (mostly Cuban) fanbase that was turned off by the manager last year because of idiotic statements made by a hot headed manager. Loria is to blame for that as Ozzie is what Ozzie is, and he got exactly what he bargained for.

 

 

That just gets added to the list of excuses of why they didn't support the team. There's always a new one ready to go.

Nationals are owned by another multi-billionaire...

 

 

Then more proof that Loria is not able to afford this team. Why does he stay in other than to just try and collect as much as he can from revenue sharing ? If the other owners are smart, they just have to agree to no revenue sharing for a 4 or 5 year period. That might force Loria out.

Like I mentioned above, no multi-billionaire would want to own it now so if Loria leaves -- expect another owner with a similar wealth to take over. It's not a good business to own and guys like Ted Lerner know that.

Fan base? What fan base?

 

They had 5K season-tickets at the old joint and they have 5K season-tickets at the new joint. A 600 mill baseball paradise with a roof and a/c is built and they still don't show up.

 

Loria could sell tomorrow and it wouldn't make a dime's worth of difference.

 

I recommend that the Loria-haters join a Cubs board -- no WS won in 104 years -- the ultimate in frustration. Or maybe a Pirates board -- no winning season in, what is it now, 20 or 21 years?

A hispanic (mostly Cuban) fanbase that was turned off by the manager last year because of idiotic statements made by a hot headed manager. Loria is to blame for that as Ozzie is what Ozzie is, and he got exactly what he bargained for.

 

 

That just gets added to the list of excuses of why they didn't support the team. There's always a new one ready to go.

 

 

Didn't Loria have enough sense to research Ozzie ? If he had, he would have known that much of the Cuban community already had it in for him years before he was hired as the Marlins manager. Anyone with common sense could have done research on Ozzie and found his controversial statements about Chavez and the cozy relationship they seemed to enjoy. That story had been out there for years.

 

It was Loria's "I have to have him, I have to have him" childishness temper tantrum and fuck the fans attitude that got him Ozzie. Well he got all he deserved by making a whim decision instead of a baseball business decision. And of course that's all the fans fault isn't it ?

Why build the stadium?

 

Surely, you're not that dense. Loria believed, as did everyone, that a baseball stadium with a roof and a/c would solve the attendance problem. No more rain, no more humidity. The ultimate in fan comfort. Brand new. A baseball palace. And, did you forget that we have been trying to get that done for 20 years?

 

He and everyone else was wrong.

 

He and everyone else only found out that there was a fan problem AFTER the stadium was built. Hard to justify moving before that. But, I'm sure it all makes perfect sense in your world of Loria-hatred where mindless bile rules the day.

 

 

No.

 

Do you actually live down there? People only realized there was a "fan problem" in south florida just now??

 

If you think that the sole reason attendance stunk in the past was because people were worried about getting rained on you're nuts. It has always been a crappy sports town.

 

You build the new stadium to IMPROVE attendance, which it was doing. Expecting sellouts all season long was stupid and naive and basically suggests no knowledge about south florida. Building and maintaining a fanbase is an ongoing process. a PROCESS. You don't flip a *$% switch.

 

Over time the stadium will be huge in building the fanbase.

Didn't Loria have enough sense to research Ozzie ? If he had, he would have known that much of the Cuban community already had it in for him years before he was hired as the Marlins manager. Anyone with common sense could have done research on Ozzie and found his controversial statements about Chavez and the cozy relationship they seemed to enjoy. That story had been out there for years.

 

It was Loria's "I have to have him, I have to have him" childishness temper tantrum and fuck the fans attitude that got him Ozzie. Well he got all he deserved by making a whim decision instead of a baseball business decision. And of course that's all the fans fault isn't it ?

 

 

 

I seem to recall most of the fans "boycotting" now being very excited about the hiring of Ozzie actually.

With all due respect Hotcorner, I don't think a person has to live there to speak on the subject. I don't live there but I think I know the landscape really well. I have no idea if ... lives there or not but it shouldn't matter.

New park location cuts off 40% of Marlin's previous fan base.

 

Marlin's plan to replace them with a Hispanic base has failed.

 

The only hope for significant attendance is HIspanic ownership of the team.

 

TV ratings show that the Marlins no longer have a real fan base.

 

 

A hispanic (mostly Cuban) fanbase that was turned off by the manager last year because of idiotic statements made by a hot headed manager. Loria is to blame for that as Ozzie is what Ozzie is, and he got exactly what he bargained for.

 

 

That's incredibly stupid. The few that were pissed couldn't afford to go to the games anyways, and they were still ok with selling their driveways for whatever they could get. That was a story blown up by the Cuban media because it was an easy way to sell papers.

 

 

 

 

Well actually Ozzie was hated for years by certain segments of the right wing Cuban mafia known as Los Exiliados. We're talking about the old, domino park types that were standing in front of Elian Gonzalez's house back in 2000.

 

It was easy to research and find out that Ozzie might not be the best manager to have for a Miami based team. Then again that would mean people with a clue owned and ran this franchise, which is such a glittering & shining example for baseball ownership throughout MLB. Their history of winning seasons and long term fan base loyalty is on show every night in their new ballpark.

Do you actually live down there? People only realized there was a "fan problem" in south florida just now??

 

If you think that the sole reason attendance stunk in the past was because people were worried about getting rained on you're nuts. It has always been a crappy sports town.

 

 

About 80 blocks north of the stadium.

 

Tell Rich and Tommy and Admin and David and Jeffrey and everyone else who talked incessantly for a year or more about how the roof and a/c would solve the attendance problem. No more rain, no more humidity, no more delays, no more crummy stadium with lousy sight-lines, you could go to a game and know it would be played on time and enjoy it in a real baseball stadium without sweating. Fan nirvana.

 

I agreed with them at the time that that should work. I no longer do.

 

And they didn't expect sellouts all year, that's another myth. But there's also no way they expected a 72% sell rate in a small stadium, with only 46% butts in the seats.

 

Yes, this is a crappy sports town. This stadium proves it. As long as "fans" want to boycott, they will suffer crappy, losing teams -- the only thing that counts is revenue. While national TV revenue will improve by 25 mill next year and we'll owe less to guys who aren't here, local stadium revenue is always the paramount variable.

Do you actually live down there? People only realized there was a "fan problem" in south florida just now??

 

If you think that the sole reason attendance stunk in the past was because people were worried about getting rained on you're nuts. It has always been a crappy sports town.

 

 

About 80 blocks north of the stadium.

 

Tell Rich and Tommy and Admin and David and Jeffrey and everyone else who talked incessantly for a year or more about how the roof and a/c would solve the attendance problem. No more rain, no more humidity, no more delays, no more crummy stadium with lousy sight-lines, you could go to a game and know it would be played on time and enjoy it in a real baseball stadium without sweating. Fan nirvana.

 

I agreed with them at the time that that should work. I no longer do.

 

And they didn't expect sellouts all year, that's another myth. But there's also no way they expected a 72% sell rate in a small stadium, with only 46% butts in the seats.

 

Yes, this is a crappy sports town. This stadium proves it. As long as "fans" want to boycott, they will suffer crappy, losing teams -- the only thing that counts is revenue. While national TV revenue will improve by 25 mill next year and we'll owe less to guys who aren't here, local stadium revenue is always the paramount variable.

 

 

And now you're criticizing the "fans" for taking a stance against a sub-par product... Bravo.

Fan base? What fan base?

 

They had 5K season-tickets at the old joint and they have 5K season-tickets at the new joint. A 600 mill baseball paradise with a roof and a/c is built and they still don't show up.

 

Loria could sell tomorrow and it wouldn't make a dime's worth of difference.

 

I recommend that the Loria-haters join a Cubs board -- no WS won in 104 years -- the ultimate in frustration. Or maybe a Pirates board -- no winning season in, what is it now, 20 or 21 years?

 

 

You're leaving out the part where season ticket holders more than doubled between 2011 and 2012. They only went down this year back to the lower number because the ownership gave up on the team.

 

You can't make the excuse of 'oh, people didn't show up, so we had to blow the team up' after THREE MONTHS. This city is always slow to show up for a team. Look at the Heat. They couldn't draw either after Shaq left when the team was bad/mediocre, but now tickets are hard to come by.

 

The owners whine about fan support, but they haven't made the playoffs in a decade, the team's roster is always in flux, and they tend to make decisions without really thinking about the consequences.

It was easy to research and find out that Ozzie might not be the best manager to have for a Miami based team. Then again that would mean people with a clue owned and ran this franchise, which is such a glittering & shining example for baseball ownership throughout MLB. Their history of winning seasons and long term fan base loyalty is on show every night in their new ballpark.

 

Any lame excuse to bash Loria will do, eh?

 

Loria didn't need to Google Ozzie, the guy worked for him for 3 years -- 2001-2003. He watched him elsewhere for the next 8 years.

 

He knew full-well that Ozzie is a bit of hot-head and tends to run his mouth, and also that he was well known and well-regarded as a manager by his players.

 

If the Marlins had made the playoffs, Ozzie would be regarded as a god and Loria as some sort of baseball genius.

 

Hindsight is 20-20. Or, in your case, something like 20-100.

Like I mentioned above, no multi-billionaire would want to own it now so if Loria leaves -- expect another owner with a similar wealth to take over. It's not a good business to own and guys like Ted Lerner know that.

 

 

It's not only is he not able to afford the team, its they way its run. It could be run much better with better front office people, and with better results, I think you'd get a better fanbase.

 

Admin don't you think with someone else running it better, and with better results on the field won't get better results in the stands ? I think you are off there. Maybe not top of the league but I think with Hispanic ownership, which understands that community better would result in possibly a fanbase like you have in Cincinnati or Minnesota.

You're leaving out the part where season ticket holders more than doubled between 2011 and 2012.

 

 

As I think BroncoBob said, accurately and when it was happening, IIRC, most of that increase was speculative and done by season-ticket holders doubling-up on tickets.

 

Didn't work.

 

Their season-ticket fan base was and remains 5K, irrespective of temporary fluctuations for whatever reason.

Fan base? What fan base?

 

They had 5K season-tickets at the old joint and they have 5K season-tickets at the new joint. A 600 mill baseball paradise with a roof and a/c is built and they still don't show up.

 

Loria could sell tomorrow and it wouldn't make a dime's worth of difference.

 

I recommend that the Loria-haters join a Cubs board -- no WS won in 104 years -- the ultimate in frustration. Or maybe a Pirates board -- no winning season in, what is it now, 20 or 21 years?

 

 

Then why was the stadium so important ? You can't answer that one without admitting that either Loria was to stupid to know this fanbase wouldn't turnout, or he was planning this all along and the fans made it easy for him to use the "they didn't show up" excuse to strip the team.

 

All the stadium did was enrich him, and he's not taking full advantage of even its revenue streams. The naming rights fiasco is just stupidity upon stupidity.

Didn't Loria have enough sense to research Ozzie ? If he had, he would have known that much of the Cuban community already had it in for him years before he was hired as the Marlins manager. Anyone with common sense could have done research on Ozzie and found his controversial statements about Chavez and the cozy relationship they seemed to enjoy. That story had been out there for years.

 

It was Loria's "I have to have him, I have to have him" childishness temper tantrum and f*** the fans attitude that got him Ozzie. Well he got all he deserved by making a whim decision instead of a baseball business decision. And of course that's all the fans fault isn't it ?

 

 

 

I seem to recall most of the fans "boycotting" now being very excited about the hiring of Ozzie actually.

 

 

So you've taken a poll of them ? You had time to do this Admin ? Can I see your survey sheets please ?

 

Admin you don't live here so I guess I can excuse some of your ignorance of South Florida and its constant weird politics. Ozzie is part of that fabric, and many of them have hated him for years because of his stand for Chavez and his Castro stupidity only added nuclear fuel to that.

Do you actually live down there? People only realized there was a "fan problem" in south florida just now??

 

If you think that the sole reason attendance stunk in the past was because people were worried about getting rained on you're nuts. It has always been a crappy sports town.

 

 

About 80 blocks north of the stadium.

 

Tell Rich and Tommy and Admin and David and Jeffrey and everyone else who talked incessantly for a year or more about how the roof and a/c would solve the attendance problem. No more rain, no more humidity, no more delays, no more crummy stadium with lousy sight-lines, you could go to a game and know it would be played on time and enjoy it in a real baseball stadium without sweating. Fan nirvana.

 

I agreed with them at the time that that should work. I no longer do.

 

And they didn't expect sellouts all year, that's another myth. But there's also no way they expected a 72% sell rate in a small stadium, with only 46% butts in the seats.

 

Yes, this is a crappy sports town. This stadium proves it. As long as "fans" want to boycott, they will suffer crappy, losing teams -- the only thing that counts is revenue. While national TV revenue will improve by 25 mill next year and we'll owe less to guys who aren't here, local stadium revenue is always the paramount variable.

 

 

So the fans have to show loyalty to Loria 1st ? That isn't the way most businesses are run. They try to improve the product in order to attract the fans. According to your its obvious that the fans won't be turning out and Loria won't put a winner on the field. Well good for him, and most people in Miami will go on and the Marlins will become the afterthought that Loria wants and expects. Everyone is happy then right ?

 

If MLb wants to allow that, then so be it, because that is what will happen.

Why build the stadium?

 

Surely, you're not that dense. Loria believed, as did everyone, that a baseball stadium with a roof and a/c would solve the attendance problem. No more rain, no more humidity. The ultimate in fan comfort. Brand new. A baseball palace. And, did you forget that we have been trying to get that done for 20 years?

 

He and everyone else was wrong.

 

He and everyone else only found out that there was a fan problem AFTER the stadium was built. Hard to justify moving before that. But, I'm sure it all makes perfect sense in your world of Loria-hatred where mindless bile rules the day.

 

No.

 

Do you actually live down there? People only realized there was a "fan problem" in south florida just now??

 

If you think that the sole reason attendance stunk in the past was because people were worried about getting rained on you're nuts. It has always been a crappy sports town.

 

You build the new stadium to IMPROVE attendance, which it was doing. Expecting sellouts all season long was stupid and naive and basically suggests no knowledge about south florida. Building and maintaining a fanbase is an ongoing process. a PROCESS. You don't flip a *$% switch.

 

Over time the stadium will be huge in building the fanbase.

Of course its a process, and I think even Loria understands this. This is why I believe this was pre-meditated and was clearly going to happen no matter what. He counted on empty seats and got what he wanted, enough of them to allow him to use that as an excuse to go back to the easy way to make money - get the most out of revenue sharing.

Fan base? What fan base?

 

They had 5K season-tickets at the old joint and they have 5K season-tickets at the new joint. A 600 mill baseball paradise with a roof and a/c is built and they still don't show up.

 

Loria could sell tomorrow and it wouldn't make a dime's worth of difference.

 

I recommend that the Loria-haters join a Cubs board -- no WS won in 104 years -- the ultimate in frustration. Or maybe a Pirates board -- no winning season in, what is it now, 20 or 21 years?

 

 

The only way to make this organization look only bad is by comparing them to the pirates losing seasons and the cubs never winning a ws. Excellent. I don't see how you can think this is a well run organization.

 

Don't you mean "look good"? Or, maybe what you meant is "bad" as opposed to "horrendous." I don't know.

 

I agree with you to the extent that this organization hasn't been run optimally, but what MLB club has been? Certainly not the Cubs or Pirates, or for that matter the other 27 MLB clubs.

 

And I've never said that I think this a well run organization. I think that Loria runs it as best he can in the face of adversity, as in fans don't show up when he spends. So it goes. If people want to whine, there are plenty of better targets.

With all due respect Hotcorner, I don't think a person has to live there to speak on the subject. I don't live there but I think I know the landscape really well. I have no idea if ... lives there or not but it shouldn't matter.

 

 

agreed but not what I meant at all. my point was that everyone who knows anything about south florida is that all the sports teams struggle (at least pre-LeBron) with attendance issues. could've worded it better, i just meant "do you know anything about the town"?