It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team.

 

It's both the fans and ownership. FO went out and spent last year, people still didn't show up. They spent in 05, people didn't show up. The casual fan has made excuse after excuse after excuse not to go, they had none last year until mid-June when the team started to tank. It's not just the ownership.And he spent (prospects) at the '03 non-waiver trade deadline.

 

And he got the stadium built.

 

Most alleged "fans" are idiots. Not one of them can stand a 47 mill loss, yet they all bitch and moan as if they could and a 47 mill loss is nothing and should be ignored. That ain't the way it works.

 

Loria obviously cares about winning and he'd be wise to just ignore the crackpots. His latest PR campaign is probably a waste of time and money. Just let the plan work over the next couple of years.

 

Whether fans will ever show up here, even for a winner remains to be seen and Loria has very little to do with it.

 

 

 

 

There is no plan dude. There never has been.

It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team.

 

It's both the fans and ownership. FO went out and spent last year, people still didn't show up. They spent in 05, people didn't show up. The casual fan has made excuse after excuse after excuse not to go, they had none last year until mid-June when the team started to tank. It's not just the ownership.And he spent (prospects) at the '03 non-waiver trade deadline.

 

And he got the stadium built.

 

Most alleged "fans" are idiots. Not one of them can stand a 47 mill loss, yet they all bitch and moan as if they could and a 47 mill loss is nothing and should be ignored. That ain't the way it works.

 

Loria obviously cares about winning and he'd be wise to just ignore the crackpots. His latest PR campaign is probably a waste of time and money. Just let the plan work over the next couple of years.

 

Whether fans will ever show up here, even for a winner remains to be seen and Loria has very little to do with it.

 

 

 

 

There is no plan dude. There never has been.

 

 

 

 

Seriously. There was/is no plan. Even the Toronto trade almost didn't happen and really came together more on a whim then some stroke of front office strategic plan for the future. The latest example of the we don't know what we're doing approach to this team is the knee-jerk calling up of Fernandez.

It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team.

 

It's both the fans and ownership. FO went out and spent last year, people still didn't show up. They spent in 05, people didn't show up. The casual fan has made excuse after excuse after excuse not to go, they had none last year until mid-June when the team started to tank. It's not just the ownership.And he spent (prospects) at the '03 non-waiver trade deadline.

 

And he got the stadium built.

 

Most alleged "fans" are idiots. Not one of them can stand a 47 mill loss, yet they all bitch and moan as if they could and a 47 mill loss is nothing and should be ignored. That ain't the way it works.

 

Loria obviously cares about winning and he'd be wise to just ignore the crackpots. His latest PR campaign is probably a waste of time and money. Just let the plan work over the next couple of years.

 

Whether fans will ever show up here, even for a winner remains to be seen and Loria has very little to do with it.

 

 

 

 

There is no plan dude. There never has been.

 

 

 

 

Seriously. There was/is no plan. Even the Toronto trade almost didn't happen and really came together more on a whim then some stroke of front office strategic plan for the future. The latest example of the we don't know what we're doing approach to this team is the knee-jerk calling up of Fernandez.

 

 

 

It does seem like they are and have been "winging it".

In less than 2 weeks we've already gotten to the point of playing "Who's On First".

.

I thought Samson was just blowing smoke and trying to promote ticket sales when he declared last year that a ticket would be "the hottest seat in town". The owners couldn't really believe that, could they, I thought. In this town? First year with the way fans are here. It figured it would take some time for folks to get familiar with the comings and goings/parking/etc. Even if they had been in the playoff hunt all of last year there was no way they'd see 30K a game. Unfortunately the team underperformed and we'll never know.

.

But apparantly, they really did believe that tripe about 30k a game, and they failed to have any back-up plan in case projections/revenue weren't at that lofty level. I find it hard to believe that there was no revenue projection planning just in case attendance fell short. It seems more believable that there was a plan just in case and we're seeing it......but I don't know what to believe anymore.

It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team.

 

It's both the fans and ownership. FO went out and spent last year, people still didn't show up. They spent in 05, people didn't show up. The casual fan has made excuse after excuse after excuse not to go, they had none last year until mid-June when the team started to tank. It's not just the ownership.And he spent (prospects) at the '03 non-waiver trade deadline.

 

And he got the stadium built.

 

Most alleged "fans" are idiots. Not one of them can stand a 47 mill loss, yet they all bitch and moan as if they could and a 47 mill loss is nothing and should be ignored. That ain't the way it works.

 

Loria obviously cares about winning and he'd be wise to just ignore the crackpots. His latest PR campaign is probably a waste of time and money. Just let the plan work over the next couple of years.

 

Whether fans will ever show up here, even for a winner remains to be seen and Loria has very little to do with it.

 

 

 

 

There is no plan dude. There never has been.

 

 

 

 

Seriously. There was/is no plan. Even the Toronto trade almost didn't happen and really came together more on a whim then some stroke of front office strategic plan for the future. The latest example of the we don't know what we're doing approach to this team is the knee-jerk calling up of Fernandez.

 

 

 

 

The plan was to acquire Jeff Mathis.

The x-factor is injured.

they really did believe that tripe about 30k a game, and they failed to have any back-up plan in case projections/revenue weren't at that lofty level.

 

But to hear them tell it, they DID have projections for a range of performance including poor performance. Just not for totally abysmal performance.

 

I think that they were totally shocked by how absolutely crappy revenue turned out to be. As in way, way below anything they had envisioned as being even remotely possible.

 

Which is really a commentary on the fan-base, which obviously sucks much harder than they thought was even possible.

 

Get a beautiful new 600 mill stadium built and obligate 200 mill to FAs on top of Hanley and JJ and Stanton? Shouldn't attendance be pretty good? A small stadium should be pretty full, right? Record-high payroll? Serious money spent on a real closer for the first time ever? (Har, har.)

 

That actual butts in the seats won't suck donkey d!ck is not an unreasonable expectation, no matter who the owner is.

 

And it turns out that they have a 5K season ticket base no matter what stadium they're in and turnstile clicks fell short by 800K. Ugh.

 

Notice to owner: You're screwed. Get ready for a long slog. Miami is not a big baseball town no matter how cool the stadium is. Maybe 20 years from now, but not anytime soon.

Not anytime soon as long as Loria owns the team. It's obvious the fans don't trust him. Thus the poor attendance in a new stadium.

 

When he goes, baseball COULD be saved in Miami if things are done right.

Get a beautiful new 600 mill stadium built ...

 

It's amazing that taxpayers aren't more grateful for the $2.4 billion stadium they were forced to build for Loria.

I've become increasingly convinced that David Samson registered under the name '...' here; I find it hard to believe any other rational person would buy into the bill of goods this team has been selling the public.

I've become increasingly convinced that David Samson registered under the name '...' here; I find it hard to believe any other rational person would buy into the bill of goods this team has been selling the public.

 

 

Thinking the same thing.

In fact, the team drew fewer than Wednesday’s crowd count of 13,810 a total of only 13 times during its final year at Sun Life Stadium. Not only are the Marlins setting new record lows for attendance, they are setting team records for offensive futility, too.

 

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/11/3336619/miami-marlins-swept-by-atlanta.html#storylink=cpy

I've become increasingly convinced that David Samson registered under the name '...' here; I find it hard to believe any other rational person would buy into the bill of goods this team has been selling the public.

 

 

Nope.

http://deadspin.com/photos-marlins-park-is-satisfyingly-empty-472406862

 

 

I'm not one to revel in another fanbase's pain. I really feel for you guys, can't be easy to root for this team.

I know its only been like two weeks of the season but starting this bad has hurt more than I thought it would. Cuz right now its not "well we're bad but full of scrappy energy and fun to watch!" ...its just become a painful depressing thing to watch. And I've tried to be super optimistic but this is just bad all around. Really difficult. I could cry sometimes. It just hurts to see the team I love be this embarrassing.

 

 

Side note, I can't even enjoy this team on a video game. I play MLB The Show for some fun, a break from my day, I played two games with the Fish last night and its too realistic... I got slapped in two games with a combined score of 10-1, the one coming from a Stanton solo homer. Same problems as reality, no offense, lackluster pitching... there's no escape from this pain. Its like Groundhog Day.

I know its only been like two weeks of the season but starting this bad has hurt more than I thought it would. Cuz right now its not "well we're bad but full of scrappy energy and fun to watch!" ...its just become a painful depressing thing to watch. And I've tried to be super optimistic but this is just bad all around. Really difficult. I could cry sometimes. It just hurts to see the team I love be this embarrassing.

 

 

Side note, I can't even enjoy this team on a video game. I play MLB The Show for some fun, a break from my day, I played two games with the Fish last night and its too realistic... I got slapped in two games with a combined score of 10-1, the one coming from a Stanton solo homer. Same problems as reality, no offense, lackluster pitching... there's no escape from this pain. Its like Groundhog Day.

 

 

Stanton hit a home run? And here I thought that game was supposed to be realistic.

I know its only been like two weeks of the season but starting this bad has hurt more than I thought it would. Cuz right now its not "well we're bad but full of scrappy energy and fun to watch!" ...its just become a painful depressing thing to watch. And I've tried to be super optimistic but this is just bad all around. Really difficult. I could cry sometimes. It just hurts to see the team I love be this embarrassing.

 

 

Side note, I can't even enjoy this team on a video game. I play MLB The Show for some fun, a break from my day, I played two games with the Fish last night and its too realistic... I got slapped in two games with a combined score of 10-1, the one coming from a Stanton solo homer. Same problems as reality, no offense, lackluster pitching... there's no escape from this pain. Its like Groundhog Day.

 

 

Yup. I got an mlbtv subscription after canceling cable and finding a ridiculously easy way to get around blackouts. Its saved me, because when we are getting hammered (every game) I switch and watch a good baseball game and life is good again.

 

 

 

Hmmm. care to relay that ridiculously easy way to me perhaps?

I've become increasingly convinced that David Samson registered under the name '...' here; I find it hard to believe any other rational person would buy into the bill of goods this team has been selling the public.

 

 

Nope.

 

 

My post was sarcasm.

I've become increasingly convinced that David Samson registered under the name '...' here; I find it hard to believe any other rational person would buy into the bill of goods this team has been selling the public.

 

 

Nope.

 

 

My post was sarcasm.

 

 

 

 

I think a few people here actually believe he is Samson though so I wanted to clear that up.

He's actually Loria, you silly geese.

they really did believe that tripe about 30k a game, and they failed to have any back-up plan in case projections/revenue weren't at that lofty level.

 

But to hear them tell it, they DID have projections for a range of performance including poor performance. Just not for totally abysmal performance.

 

I think that they were totally shocked by how absolutely crappy revenue turned out to be. As in way, way below anything they had envisioned as being even remotely possible.

 

Which is really a commentary on the fan-base, which obviously sucks much harder than they thought was even possible.

 

Get a beautiful new 600 mill stadium built and obligate 200 mill to FAs on top of Hanley and JJ and Stanton? Shouldn't attendance be pretty good? A small stadium should be pretty full, right? Record-high payroll? Serious money spent on a real closer for the first time ever? (Har, har.)

 

That actual butts in the seats won't suck donkey d!ck is not an unreasonable expectation, no matter who the owner is.

 

And it turns out that they have a 5K season ticket base no matter what stadium they're in and turnstile clicks fell short by 800K. Ugh.

 

Notice to owner: You're screwed. Get ready for a long slog. Miami is not a big baseball town no matter how cool the stadium is. Maybe 20 years from now, but not anytime soon.

 

 

Don't insult me and the other fans down here by blaming the fanbase. We were there supporting the team with our butts in the seats for years in the inferior stadium. The actual butts in seat attendance was fine from start-1997, and growing. Even from the start in 1993 it took time for folks to get used to the comings/goings/parking. It's how it is in this market and any front office that failed to take that into account in projecting butts in seats in a new stadium was or would be incompetent. Whether the team performed under-over or woefully under expectations. In retrospect, a better plan might have been less spent upfront on talent and more spent in promoting alternate transport(buses for $10) to get those butts initially in the seats. After all, once they saw how quick the trip was and how beautiful the new stadium is they'd come back on their own gas and parking dollar.

I highly doubt that more transit options would have made a difference.

The actual butts in seat attendance was fine from start-1997, and growing. Even from the start in 1993 it took time for folks to get used to the comings/goings/parking. It's how it is in this market and any front office that failed to take that into account in projecting butts in seats in a new stadium was or would be incompetent. Whether the team performed under-over or woefully under expectations. In retrospect, a better plan might have been less spent upfront on talent and more spent in promoting alternate transport(buses for $10) to get those butts initially in the seats. After all, once they saw how quick the trip was and how beautiful the new stadium is they'd come back on their own gas and parking dollar.

 

Attendance was only "fine" in '93-'97 to the extent that it about equaled average NL attendance over those 5 years. Per game, it declined in years 2 through 4.

 

And, in fact, '97 was the last time attendance was above the NL average at all -- by a whopping 87K. In a WS year. It then continued to shrink all the way through 2002 to 813K. Before Loria even arrived here. Thanks, Wayne.

 

What are you saying with "it took time for folks to get used to the comings/goings/parking" and suggesting "alternate transport (buses for $10) to get those butts initially in the seats"? That Marlins fans as a group are too stupid to figure out how to get to a new stadium or figure out how to park?

 

I don't think the FO did anything other than underestimate just how bad the fan base is here. Look at the last new stadium to open, Target Field in another mid-sized market. Granted, the Twins had a 50 year history in MN, much longer than the Marlins' 20 years here, but 20 years ain't nuthin'.

 

The Twins had sold as few as 1 million tickets are recently as 2000, 10 years before Target opened, just as the Marlins sold only 813K 10 years before Marlins Park opened. Yet, the Twins sold 102% of capacity the first TWO years (SRO was the excess) and Target was a million ABOVE the AL average in 2010. We were 400K BELOW the NL average in 2012. Two new stadiums, two similar-sized markets, completely different results.

 

Maybe the average Marlins fan is too stupid to figure out how to get to a new stadium and park. Or maybe they just don't care.

Don't insult me and the other fans down here by blaming the fanbase. We were there supporting the team with our butts in the seats for years in the inferior stadium. The actual butts in seat attendance was fine from start-1997, and growing. Even from the start in 1993 it took time for folks to get used to the comings/goings/parking. It's how it is in this market and any front office that failed to take that into account in projecting butts in seats in a new stadium was or would be incompetent. Whether the team performed under-over or woefully under expectations. In retrospect, a better plan might have been less spent upfront on talent and more spent in promoting alternate transport(buses for $10) to get those butts initially in the seats. After all, once they saw how quick the trip was and how beautiful the new stadium is they'd come back on their own gas and parking dollar.

 

 

 

I'm thinking this must be that guy in Sales that keeps calling me, wanting me to buy season tickets.

This is the sad state of major league baseball in Miami right now. It's so sad, and so unneccessary. Sometimes I really wish Loria had taken the team to Las Vegas or San Antonio.

 

ok no.

 

how about just get rid of loria?

 

 

Well yeah, I'd like that better, but he's not going anywhere. Too bad as that means I have to be deprived of watching MLB in person unless I am in another MLB city and decide to go to a game while traveling.

ASOT, it wouldn't have made a difference. Loria is so bad that he would have found a way to alienate any fan base, no matter where he took the team. People don't feel like going when they feel that the ownership has nothing but contempt for them.

 

It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team.

 

 

Well he cares about the team, just not about winning. He cares about maximizing his profits 1st and foremost and winning is a distant 2nd. Anyone that can refute that, can try, but his actions show where his heart is.

This is the sad state of major league baseball in Miami right now. It's so sad, and so unneccessary. Sometimes I really wish Loria had taken the team to Las Vegas or San Antonio.

 

That's a foolish comment. Your not a fan of baseball in South Florida if you'd rather see it get relocated.

 

Not at all.

 

 

I'm more of a fan of South Fla I guess because its my hometown. The Marlins have for most of their ownership under Loria have been an embarrassment and fodder for late night talk show hosts. If I had known this is the way it would have turned out, I would have rather not had MLB here at all. Because this is nothing but a huge let down, and it makes you ponder what could have been under the right owner.

 

Hopefully the rumors you keep hearing that Loria will sell when those penalties go away are true, and again its sad that that is only reason you have some hope about the future of the team.

 

It gets tiring talking about the poor ownership (literally and figuratively) and I daydream about the day we can come here and talk about nothing but ERA's, the farm and what an exciting game that was last night.