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Instant Replay, Bad Umps, etc.


poptart

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A's @ Indians.

Perez pitching to Rosario. Indians up by 1. Two outs in the 9th. No one on.

Rosario hits a ball a couple of feet above the yellow line. Called a double for some reason. Umpire's review the play for 3 god damn minutes. Double.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2013_05_08_oakmlb_clemlb_1&mode=video&content_id=26957341&tcid=vpp_copy_26957341

 

this is infuriating.

instant replay needs to be legitimate. umpires should be suspended if they ruin a game. repeat offenders should be banned from the MLB. [what's up Angel Hernandez]

MLB should step in, reverse the call on the OAK-CLE disputed HR, and play the game from that point forward. Can be done today.

 

-Buster Olney on twitter

For those asking about precedent on reversing umps' call: Yes, the Pine Tar game. Replayed from point of Brett HR forward.

 

-Buster

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Judgment calls are never overturned. I don't see how the George Brett incident is really a precedent for this.

 

Ofcourse you wouldn't-

 

Because your always the contrarian.

 

 

I'm just looking at the facts. The pine tar reversal came down to the league office determining which rules should be enforced. That has absolutely nothing to do with judgment calls made by the umpire, such as determining a home run either with or without the aid of instant replay.

 

The league and commissioner's offices have a precedent for leaving these types of calls up to the discretion of the umpires on the field.

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I don't see any common sense in reversing the call. If the commissioner's office had the final say on all judgment calls, it'd defeat the purpose of having umpires at all.

 

Logically speaking, I don't see why the availability of instant replay would make this call more deserving of being overturned than the countless others that were upheld even after proven to be wrong by examining video after the fact.

 

 

And the umpires are going to be regarded as blind mice no matter what. Overturning the call would do nothing to change that.

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I don't see any common sense in reversing the call. If the commissioner's office had the final say on all judgment calls, it'd defeat the purpose of having umpires at all.

 

Logically speaking, I don't see why the availability of instant replay would make this call more deserving of being overturned than the countless others that were upheld even after proven to be wrong by examining video after the fact.

 

 

And the umpires are going to be regarded as blind mice no matter what. Overturning the call would do nothing to change that.

 

What's the point of replay if MlBs dumbasses are just going to let the wrong call be made anyway. The point should be to get the call right. You say you don't see how this is any more worthy than any of the other calls that that were proven wrong, well for one, MLB has actually instituted a policy for replay In this instance compared to something like a base running mistake.

 

I don't see how hard it is to have an ump in the booth alog with the ones onThe field. While the next batter and the pitcher to dick around like they normally do, you could have the play reviewed and moving on instead of having to go in the clubhouse or something to that effect. Each ump has communication with the blue in the booth.

 

Leave strikes and balls the way they are and hold the umps to higher standards. I'd argue that strikes and balls hold less of f a deciding factor in games then a fair/foul call, homerun, or base running call.

 

It's absolutely fucking retarted to say something is a judgement call when there is a clear line seperating a home run and you have replay that very clearly shows what the call should be.. Mlbs problem is that they want to live in the past along with some of the fans. Technology has changed and you can no longer hide umpire mistakes behind the curtain like you could with no tv or replay.

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Torre and MLB looked like idiots on this one. It's a case of pure incompetence and everyone knows it.

 

This sort of ridiculous stuff will slowly come to an end. Balls and strikes will eventually be called 100% by technology. Fox-trax and MLB's system already does it accurately.

 

EVERY call will eventually be reviewable in a few seconds by a 5th guy in a booth and appealable to some other MLB guy in some central location. I can see future balls with built-in electronics, and future fences and bases and uniforms and gloves and foul lines/poles with sensors. Technology will rule and put an end to this nonsense. A home plate ump could be reduced to running the game (Play ball!,) throwing guys out of the game and making (reviewable) safe/out and fair/foul calls at or near the plate. The purists and the umps union will scream bloody murder, but technology will eventually roll right over them. Every awful call is just another nail in the coffin.

 

May take another 20-30 years, but it's coming. A good thing, too, purists notwithstanding. Why should a rookie get no break on balls and strikes when some 10 or 15-year veteran has a strike zone that's two or more inches larger simply because he's been around for many years and is known as a good control guy or some other such rubbish? You either threw a strike or you didn't.

 

Baseball is a hard-enough game to win without idiot umpires screwing it up.

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Are we calling the missed home run call a judgement call now?

 

Call.

 

 

 

I hate how MLB refers to everything as a judgement call. When video proves something, it no longer is a judgement call

 

 

Of course it's a judgment call. How is it not? Any ruling left to the discretion of the umpires on the field or the video booth is a matter of their own judgment. The availability of technology does nothing to change this. It just makes their decision much easier.

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I don't see any common sense in reversing the call. If the commissioner's office had the final say on all judgment calls, it'd defeat the purpose of having umpires at all.

 

Logically speaking, I don't see why the availability of instant replay would make this call more deserving of being overturned than the countless others that were upheld even after proven to be wrong by examining video after the fact.

 

 

And the umpires are going to be regarded as blind mice no matter what. Overturning the call would do nothing to change that.

 

What's the point of replay if MlBs dumbasses are just going to let the wrong call be made anyway. The point should be to get the call right. You say you don't see how this is any more worthy than any of the other calls that that were proven wrong, well for one, MLB has actually instituted a policy for replay In this instance compared to something like a base running mistake.

 

I don't see how hard it is to have an ump in the booth alog with the ones onThe field. While the next batter and the pitcher to dick around like they normally do, you could have the play reviewed and moving on instead of having to go in the clubhouse or something to that effect. Each ump has communication with the blue in the booth.

 

Leave strikes and balls the way they are and hold the umps to higher standards. I'd argue that strikes and balls hold less of f a deciding factor in games then a fair/foul call, homerun, or base running call.

 

It's absolutely f***ing retarted to say something is a judgement call when there is a clear line seperating a home run and you have replay that very clearly shows what the call should be.. Mlbs problem is that they want to live in the past along with some of the fans. Technology has changed and you can no longer hide umpire mistakes behind the curtain like you could with no tv or replay.

 

 

I openly welcome more instant replay. I think that the technology should be improved, which would prevent nearly all of these blown calls. Ultimately, however, these decisions should still be left to the discretion of the umpire and not the commissioner's office.

 

Video evidence of blown calls is hardly a new thing, either. We've had that capacity to conclusively recognize missed calls for the last couple of decades.

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I don't see any common sense in reversing the call. If the commissioner's office had the final say on all judgment calls, it'd defeat the purpose of having umpires at all.

Logically speaking, I don't see why the availability of instant replay would make this call more deserving of being overturned than the countless others that were upheld even after proven to be wrong by examining video after the fact.

And the umpires are going to be regarded as blind mice no matter what. Overturning the call would do nothing to change that.

 

 

What's the point of replay if MlBs dumbasses are just going to let the wrong call be made anyway. The point should be to get the call right. You say you don't see how this is any more worthy than any of the other calls that that were proven wrong, well for one, MLB has actually instituted a policy for replay In this instance compared to something like a base running mistake.

I don't see how hard it is to have an ump in the booth alog with the ones onThe field. While the next batter and the pitcher to dick around like they normally do, you could have the play reviewed and moving on instead of having to go in the clubhouse or something to that effect. Each ump has communication with the blue in the booth.

Leave strikes and balls the way they are and hold the umps to higher standards. I'd argue that strikes and balls hold less of f a deciding factor in games then a fair/foul call, homerun, or base running call.

It's absolutely f***ing retarted to say something is a judgement call when there is a clear line seperating a home run and you have replay that very clearly shows what the call should be.. Mlbs problem is that they want to live in the past along with some of the fans. Technology has changed and you can no longer hide umpire mistakes behind the curtain like you could with no tv or replay.

 

I openly welcome more instant replay. I think that the technology should be improved, which would prevent nearly all of these blown calls. Ultimately, however, these decisions should still be left to the discretion of the umpire and not the commissioner's office.

 

Video evidence of blown calls is hardly a new thing, either. We've had that capacity to conclusively recognize missed calls for the last couple of decades.

 

The technology is there, right now, for that call to have been right. What's the point of the technology if MlB is not going to discipline the crew or overturn the call when something like this happens. They basically said,

 

" we gave the crew every possibility to get the call correct, but they didn't. In response , we are not going to do anything to correct this mistake with regards to discipline to the umpire team nor will we be overturning the call. " "In fact, just assume replay means nothing and we are going to do it the way we have done it for decades"

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Please explain to me how the rare instance of a blown call defeats the purpose of having instant replay technology. Umpires are there to make judgment calls. Sometimes they make bad calls. The technology is there to simply aid them in their decision making and assist them in making an accurate call. In other words, it always serves a purpose even if the umpires make one bad call out of every ten thousand.

 

I just don't see your logic. Instant replay has contributed to a greater number of accurate calls, but one mis-reading of the video doesn't negate the "point" of having technology.

 

I actually partly agree with what MLB is saying there. They are basically on my page to some extent with upholding judgment calls. Instant replay is a tool for making accurate calls, but judgment decisions are still left to the umpires rather than the commissioner's office.

 

Logically speaking, the botched home run call does not warrant to be reversed any more than the thousands of calls over the years that have been proven to be erroneous by the aid of video footage.

 

There's really no good reason to reverse the call. I do agree, however, that MLB should be more open to suspending/fining umpires who make egregious mistakes.

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Please explain to me how the rare instance of a blown call defeats the purpose of having instant replay technology. Umpires are there to make judgment calls. Sometimes they make bad calls. The technology is there to simply aid them in their decision making and assist them in making an accurate call. In other words, it always serves a purpose even if the umpires make one bad call out of every ten thousand.

 

I just don't see your logic. Instant replay has contributed to a greater number of accurate calls, but one mis-reading of the video doesn't negate the "point" of having technology.

 

I actually partly agree with what MLB is saying there. They are basically on my page to some extent with upholding judgment calls. Instant replay is a tool for making accurate calls, but judgment decisions are still left to the umpires rather than the commissioner's office.

 

Logically speaking, the botched home run call does not warrant to be reversed any more than the thousands of calls over the years that have been proven to be erroneous by the aid of video footage.

 

There's really no good reason to reverse the call. I do agree, however, that MLB should be more open to suspending/fining umpires who make egregious mistakes.

 

That's just our difference in opinions I guess. It shouldn't be a judgement call in the first place and it shouldnt be a tool to assist there decision. it should be there to make sure the umpires call is correct and if not, make it right. The right call should be the right call, regardless of judgment and that needs to be implemented immediately in my eyes.

 

As far as your last sentence, I completely agree and I think that's what blows my mind about this situation. They suspend and fine umps for a pitching change rule violation but not for a replay assisted game changing call. I could understand no action on a non replayed base call for now but having replay and still clearly missing the call should be punishable.

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The whole point of having umpires is to have people who can make judgment calls so that the commissioner's office doesn't have to. That's never going to change and for good reason.

 

Seriously, if the umpires aren't in a position to make a judgment based upon the video evidence (as you suggest in your post), then why have them look at the video evidence at all? Wouldn't the delay of simply looking at the footage just be an empty charade? Why not just mandate Bud Selig to evaluate every single questionable call that umpires make over the course of the season? That's basically what the logic of your argument equates to here.

 

MLB wants to delegate this authority to umpires and it's perfectly reasonable for them to do so. Incidents like the one that happened the other day have been and will continue to be a total rarity with instant replay.

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The whole point of having umpires is to have people who can make judgment calls so that the commissioner's office doesn't have to. That's never going to change and for good reason.

 

Seriously, if the umpires aren't in a position to make a judgment based upon the video evidence (as you suggest in your post), then why have them look at the video evidence at all? Wouldn't the delay of simply looking at the footage just be an empty charade? Why not just mandate Bud Selig to evaluate every single questionable call that umpires make over the course of the season? That's basically what the logic of your argument equates to here.

 

MLB wants to delegate this authority to umpires and it's perfectly reasonable for them to do so. Incidents like the one that happened the other day have been and will continue to be a total rarity with instant replay.

 

 

I just want the right calls made regardless who makes them whether its the umpires, bud selig, or blind Johnny on the street corner,

 

My main point is that punishment must be given out under these circumstances.. I don't preclude rare incidents from being dealt with rather than swept under the rug by technicality like mlb has done .

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I wouldn't say that they swept it under the rug. They officially addressed the incident and plainly admitted that it was a blown call. They simply realized that it would be silly to overturn this particular call when there have been thousands of other blown calls that have impacted the outcomes of games and were upheld. I really don't see why this call is more deserving of being overturned when there have been countless others that could have gotten the same treatment after viewing videotape after the fact.

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I wouldn't say that they swept it under the rug. They officially addressed the incident and plainly admitted that it was a blown call. They simply realized that it would be silly to overturn this particular call when there have been thousands of other blown calls that have impacted the outcomes of games and were upheld. I really don't see why this call is more deserving of being overturned when there have been countless others that could have gotten the same treatment after viewing videotape after the fact.

 

 

This X1000

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Are we calling the missed home run call a judgement call now?

 

Call.

 

 

 

I hate how MLB refers to everything as a judgement call. When video proves something, it no longer is a judgement call

 

 

Of course it's a judgment call. How is it not? Any ruling left to the discretion of the umpires on the field or the video booth is a matter of their own judgment. The availability of technology does nothing to change this. It just makes their decision much easier.

 

 

More importantly, how do I know when to use judgment or judgement?

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