I never understood why people are so high on Dietrich.

 

I think he has good potential. Great power for a second baseman. He had an ISO of .191 which ranks 3rd for 2nd baseman. Produced well in the minor leagues. Actually had a good walk rate in Double A this season which was a major question mark about him. I don't think he plays well on defense, though. That's something he has to over come.

He has above average power for a second baseman but very little else. The walk rate in AA this season is likely an anomaly if you consider his career numbers. He didn't walk for shit in his stretch in MLB this past season, either.

 

I don't see much to get excited about.

He has above average power for a second baseman but very little else. The walk rate in AA this season is likely an anomaly if you consider his career numbers. He didn't walk for shit in his stretch in MLB this past season, either.

 

I don't see much to get excited about.

 

His walk rate in his minor league career was 7%. Take away his year this season, and it's at 6.2 % League average for a second baseman. last season was about 7.3%. He didn't do well this season as a rookie but he can hover around 7% as a player. He'll strike out a lot but his power is a big deal and makes up for that. He ranked third out of 49 second baseman with at least 230 PAs last season in ISO. That's better than above average.

 

There's also the fact that he produced very well in the minor leagues. He's had the time he needed.

He has above average power for a second baseman but very little else. The walk rate in AA this season is likely an anomaly if you consider his career numbers. He didn't walk for shit in his stretch in MLB this past season, either.

 

I don't see much to get excited about.

 

His walk rate in his minor league career was 7%. Take away his year this season, and it's at 6.2 % League average for a second baseman. last season was about 7.3%. He didn't do well this season as a rookie but he can hover around 7% as a player. He'll strike out a lot but his power is a big deal and makes up for that. He ranked third out of 49 second baseman with at least 230 PAs last season in ISO. That's better than above average.

 

There's also the fact that he produced very well in the minor leagues. He's had the time he needed.

And as I've mentioned before, Perry Hill loves him at second base. I didn't see anything to be upset about defensively, I don't know why people seem to think he's bad over there.

 

Dietrich has a ton of power, should be a 20+ homer guy over 600 plate appearances even at Marlins Park. The hope would be that he can get on base a bit more than he did in the major leagues, which I think will happen. Sometimes it doesn't happen immediately, let him adjust, give him a little time. I think the average and OBP can creep up. I don't see how a .780 OPS is a stretch for him, I think he can def slug .450 and post an OBP of .330. That might be optimistic, but that's because I liked what I saw.

I could see Navarro and Dietrich hitting at that level but I think it's a little high for Ozuna. It would be hard for him to hit at that level with no time in Double A.

 

I think Ozuna can absolutely post a .750 OPS next season. His problem seemed to be discipline as the season went on, so I don't see him having a very high OBP. HOWEVER, one thing that was absent from his bat in the majors was that big power he has, and that is going to come eventually... You don't hit 20+ homers every year for 3 years in the minors and then hit 5 in the majors. Power generally translates from the minors to the majors, it's the other areas you usually worry about. Just wait and it will come.

He has above average power for a second baseman but very little else. The walk rate in AA this season is likely an anomaly if you consider his career numbers. He didn't walk for shit in his stretch in MLB this past season, either.

 

I don't see much to get excited about.

 

His walk rate in his minor league career was 7%. Take away his year this season, and it's at 6.2 % League average for a second baseman. last season was about 7.3%. He didn't do well this season as a rookie but he can hover around 7% as a player. He'll strike out a lot but his power is a big deal and makes up for that. He ranked third out of 49 second baseman with at least 230 PAs last season in ISO. That's better than above average.

 

There's also the fact that he produced very well in the minor leagues. He's had the time he needed.

First of all, a 6.2% walk rate is pretty bad for a MLB second baseman; it's well below the median for qualified 2B in 2013. You also can't count him to even put that up in MLB when he faces higher quality pitching. His plate discipline is one of his weaknesses, not strong points.

 

As I've said already, he's got power for a second baseman but not much else. Not a very exciting player.

The hope would be that he can get on base a bit more than he did in the major leagues, which I think will happen. Sometimes it doesn't happen immediately, let him adjust, give him a little time. I think the average and OBP can creep up. I don't see how a .780 OPS is a stretch for him, I think he can def slug .450 and post an OBP of .330. That might be optimistic, but that's because I liked what I saw.

 

Based on what? You always say these things but you never have anything to support it. It's just "hope" and wishful thinking.

The hope would be that he can get on base a bit more than he did in the major leagues, which I think will happen. Sometimes it doesn't happen immediately, let him adjust, give him a little time. I think the average and OBP can creep up. I don't see how a .780 OPS is a stretch for him, I think he can def slug .450 and post an OBP of .330. That might be optimistic, but that's because I liked what I saw.

 

Based on what? You always say these things but you never have anything to support it. It's just "hope" and wishful thinking.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=dietri002der

 

Every single time you and I get into an argument I have stats to support my opinion. You simply choose to ignore whatever stats support my argument. Literally, everytime.

 

He has actually been a model of consistency since being drafted, and he has ALWAYS been a bat-first prospect. In 1,556 MiLB plate appearances: .277/.348./476/.824. And his best season was this year, not a distant memory. The encouraging part about his season was how he killed in in Jax, came up and did well, got into a slump, went back to Jax and killed it again. He ended up with almost a .900 OPS in Double-A this year and between the majors/minors hit 20 homers in less than 500 PA.

 

I don't know why this is news to you, he was supposed to be a good hitter.

You still haven't provide any statistical argument. You just linked to his profile and provided no explanation.

 

And you still haven't learned that minor league numbers don't directly correspond to what he's likely to do in MLB, especially after only a little more than 200 PAs? The extent of your justification here is that he's put up a .824 OPS in the minors, so he must be able to hit decently in the majors. That's dumb thinking. It's like you don't even know what peripheral data is or how to apply it.

You still haven't provide any statistical argument. You just linked to his profile and provided no explanation.

 

And you still haven't learned that minor league numbers don't directly correspond to what he's likely to do in MLB, especially after only a little more than 200 PAs? The extent of your justification here is that he's put up a .824 OPS in the minors, so he must be able to hit decently in the majors. That's dumb thinking. It's like you don't even know what peripheral data is or how to apply it.

 

You do understand that's usually a pretty easy conclusion to come to, right? I'm not saying he's going to post nearly a .900 OPS in the majors like he did in double-A, but he came up to the majors and hit well before he hit a slump. He has hit at every level of the game. He has displayed power at every level of baseball.

 

How about this, instead of me proving to you why he will hit, why don't you prove why he won't?

There is a great differential between minor league pitching and major league pitching. He had a .715 OPS in May (when he got called up), which isn't hitting "well." While he showed power in the minors, he showed no plate discipline. His minor league performance shows him to be a one-dimensional player, which is what I expect him to be in the majors.

 

And I have already statistically showed this by pointing out his poor walk rate.

He has above average power for a second baseman but very little else. The walk rate in AA this season is likely an anomaly if you consider his career numbers. He didn't walk for shit in his stretch in MLB this past season, either.

 

I don't see much to get excited about.

 

His walk rate in his minor league career was 7%. Take away his year this season, and it's at 6.2 % League average for a second baseman. last season was about 7.3%. He didn't do well this season as a rookie but he can hover around 7% as a player. He'll strike out a lot but his power is a big deal and makes up for that. He ranked third out of 49 second baseman with at least 230 PAs last season in ISO. That's better than above average.

 

There's also the fact that he produced very well in the minor leagues. He's had the time he needed.

First of all, a 6.2% walk rate is pretty bad for a MLB second baseman; it's well below the median for qualified 2B in 2013. You also can't count him to even put that up in MLB when he faces higher quality pitching. His plate discipline is one of his weaknesses, not strong points.

 

As I've said already, he's got power for a second baseman but not much else. Not a very exciting player.

The average walk rate for a second baseman in 2013 was 7.3. His MILB walk rate is just one percent lower. I see no reason why he can't put up a similar walk rate.

 

You're really just telling me the same thing over again but your argument is weak. He has a high K rate but the power is there. I don't see why he isn't a player to be excited over offensively.

The fact that Dietrich could possibly have the second most power on the current roster (close call with Morrison), tells you quite a bit about the Marlins' state right now.

Averages don't really tell you much of anything in terms of how a player stacks up against the rest of the league. That's what medians are for. Nobody who knows anything about statistics would tell you that a 7% walk rate is decent for a second baseman.

 

Also, I find it highly improbable that Dietrich is even capable of a 7% walk rate in MLB based upon his minor league numbers.

 

I don't see why the argument is weak. His walk rate is pretty bad and has been over almost all of his career.

Averages don't really tell you much of anything in terms of how a player stacks up against the rest of the league. That's what medians are for.

 

I don't see why the argument is weak. His walk rate is pretty bad and has been over almost all of his career.

 

I have to side with you about Dietrich.

Averages don't really tell you much of anything in terms of how a player stacks up against the rest of the league. That's what medians are for. Nobody who knows anything about statistics would tell you that a 7% walk rate is decent for a second baseman.

 

Also, I find it highly improbable that Dietrich is even capable of a 7% walk rate in MLB based upon his minor league numbers.

 

I don't see why the argument is weak. His walk rate is pretty bad and has been over almost all of his career.

 

Averages work just fine.

 

His walk rate is your only argument but you brush over his power. You can't just say he has power like it's nothing. That's a big deal for a second baseman.

Why do they work just fine? Averages don't give you a full distribution of the league's performance. It gives you a number that can be skewed in one direction. It's more important to judge a player's ability based upon where he ranks with respect to the rest of baseball. I never even look at league averages--those can be inflated by 1 or 2 players with super high walk rates. This is statistics 101 here.

 

I have acknowledged his power, but you and Wild Card are overvaluing it. It's really the only thing he brings to the table. That's the point I'm making. The power is decent, but he's a pretty unexciting player when you realize that his walk rate is bad, his strikeout rate is bad, and his defense (particularly range) is bad. He's basically the Mike Jacobs of second basemen.

Averages don't really tell you much of anything in terms of how a player stacks up against the rest of the league. That's what medians are for.

 

I don't see why the argument is weak. His walk rate is pretty bad and has been over almost all of his career.

 

I have to side with you about Dietrich.I'm starting to think that there is one evil genius behind this account, wildcard, and penguino.

Why do they work just fine? Averages don't give you a full distribution of the league's performance. It gives you a number that can be skewed in one direction. It's more important to judge a player's ability based upon where he ranks with respect to the rest of baseball. I never even look at league averages--those can be inflated by 1 or 2 players with super high walk rates. This is statistics 101 here.

 

I have acknowledged his power, but you and Wild Card are overvaluing it. It's really the only thing he brings to the table. That's the point I'm making. The power is decent, but he's a pretty unexciting player when you realize that his walk rate is bad, his strikeout rate is bad, and his defense (particularly range) is bad. He's basically the Mike Jacobs of second basemen.

 

I've acknowledged his poor K rate and defense. I agreed with you there. I'm taking about his bat, though. That's what has me high on Dietrich.

 

I think you're over reacting on his walk rate and you aren't really taking into account his power. Simply mentioning doesn't mean anything. You called it above average when his ISO ranked third among second baseman with 230 PAs. That's not just above average. Far above it.

 

There's also the fact that he's hit well in every level In the minor leagues and plays a position that really doesn't demand much hitting.

He's at least mildly interesting because middle infielder with power.

 

I'm not going to discard him because he had a poor batting average for 2+ months when he probably shouldn't have been up yet anyway. He's far from a sure thing but he's certainly worth watching. All we can say is at 23 he hadn't shown much plate discipline, this is not an uncommon thing. Uggla didn't show any signs of drawing walks at that age either. It may or may not improve but if the power sticks he only needs marginal BB% improvement. Defense might be another issue but let's let it play out a bit.

He's at least mildly interesting because middle infielder with power.

 

I'm not going to discard him because he had a poor batting average for 2+ months when he probably shouldn't have been up yet anyway. He's far from a sure thing but he's certainly worth watching. All we can say is at 23 he hadn't shown much plate discipline, this is not an uncommon thing. Uggla didn't show any signs of drawing walks at that age either. It may or may not improve but if the power sticks he only needs marginal BB% improvement. Defense might be another issue but let's let it play out a bit.

 

Apparently he isn't mildly interesting to most posters. At least from what I've seen. More people seem to think he isn't anything to get excited about.

Why do they work just fine? Averages don't give you a full distribution of the league's performance. It gives you a number that can be skewed in one direction. It's more important to judge a player's ability based upon where he ranks with respect to the rest of baseball. I never even look at league averages--those can be inflated by 1 or 2 players with super high walk rates. This is statistics 101 here.

 

I have acknowledged his power, but you and Wild Card are overvaluing it. It's really the only thing he brings to the table. That's the point I'm making. The power is decent, but he's a pretty unexciting player when you realize that his walk rate is bad, his strikeout rate is bad, and his defense (particularly range) is bad. He's basically the Mike Jacobs of second basemen.

 

I've acknowledged his poor K rate and defense. I agreed with you there. I'm taking about his bat, though. That's what has me high on Dietrich.

 

I think you're over reacting on his walk rate and you aren't really taking into account his power. Simply mentioning doesn't mean anything. You called it above average when his ISO ranked third among second baseman with 230 PAs. That's not just above average. Far above it.

 

There's also the fact that he's hit well in every level In the minor leagues and plays a position that really doesn't demand much hitting.Glad to see I'm not blind.

He's at least mildly interesting because middle infielder with power.

 

I'm not going to discard him because he had a poor batting average for 2+ months when he probably shouldn't have been up yet anyway. He's far from a sure thing but he's certainly worth watching. All we can say is at 23 he hadn't shown much plate discipline, this is not an uncommon thing. Uggla didn't show any signs of drawing walks at that age either. It may or may not improve but if the power sticks he only needs marginal BB% improvement. Defense might be another issue but let's let it play out a bit.

Again, this was really my point. I'm not making him out to be this super prospect... But he's absolutely someone that should be given an opportunity and our fan base should be pretty excited about him. If he fails... Oh well. But a lot of positives.

 

Btw,I understand he hasn't done it consistently, but his .384 OBP in double-A this year sure was encouraging to say the least. Progress maybe? Do prospects get better?

Why do they work just fine? Averages don't give you a full distribution of the league's performance. It gives you a number that can be skewed in one direction. It's more important to judge a player's ability based upon where he ranks with respect to the rest of baseball. I never even look at league averages--those can be inflated by 1 or 2 players with super high walk rates. This is statistics 101 here.

 

I have acknowledged his power, but you and Wild Card are overvaluing it. It's really the only thing he brings to the table. That's the point I'm making. The power is decent, but he's a pretty unexciting player when you realize that his walk rate is bad, his strikeout rate is bad, and his defense (particularly range) is bad. He's basically the Mike Jacobs of second basemen.

 

I've acknowledged his poor K rate and defense. I agreed with you there. I'm taking about his bat, though. That's what has me high on Dietrich.

 

I think you're over reacting on his walk rate and you aren't really taking into account his power. Simply mentioning doesn't mean anything. You called it above average when his ISO ranked third among second baseman with 230 PAs. That's not just above average. Far above it.

 

There's also the fact that he's hit well in every level In the minor leagues and plays a position that really doesn't demand much hitting.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. The bad walk rate and the bad strikeout rate basically means that he has no plate discipline. He's going to have troubling getting on base because of that and will likely see his power numbers drop when opposing pitchers realize that he will likely swing at anything.

 

I "mention" he has decent power, because he does. I don't know what more you expect me to say. He has above average power for his position but that's kind of the only thing he can do as a player (hence why he's the 2B version of Mike Jacobs), and that could drop too on account of his bad plate discipline.

 

His minor league numbers are respectable but far from stellar. You need to look beyond the HR totals and OPS and consider has complete lack of discipline. The peripherals indicate that he will have trouble surviving in the big leagues.

 

And again, his power is only good for a 2B because he shouldn't be a 2B.

Why do they work just fine? Averages don't give you a full distribution of the league's performance. It gives you a number that can be skewed in one direction. It's more important to judge a player's ability based upon where he ranks with respect to the rest of baseball. I never even look at league averages--those can be inflated by 1 or 2 players with super high walk rates. This is statistics 101 here.

 

I have acknowledged his power, but you and Wild Card are overvaluing it. It's really the only thing he brings to the table. That's the point I'm making. The power is decent, but he's a pretty unexciting player when you realize that his walk rate is bad, his strikeout rate is bad, and his defense (particularly range) is bad. He's basically the Mike Jacobs of second basemen.

 

I've acknowledged his poor K rate and defense. I agreed with you there. I'm taking about his bat, though. That's what has me high on Dietrich.

 

I think you're over reacting on his walk rate and you aren't really taking into account his power. Simply mentioning doesn't mean anything. You called it above average when his ISO ranked third among second baseman with 230 PAs. That's not just above average. Far above it.

 

There's also the fact that he's hit well in every level In the minor leagues and plays a position that really doesn't demand much hitting.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. The bad walk rate and the bad strikeout rate basically means that he has no plate discipline. He's going to have troubling getting on base because of that and will likely see his power numbers drop when opposing pitchers realize that he will likely swing at anything.

 

I "mention" he has decent power, because he does. I don't know what more you expect me to say. He has above average power for his position but that's kind of the only thing he can do as a player (hence why he's the 2B version of Mike Jacobs), and that could drop too on account of his bad plate discipline.

 

His minor league numbers are respectable but far from stellar. You need to look beyond the HR totals and OPS and consider has complete lack of discipline. The peripherals indicate that he will have trouble surviving in the big leagues.

 

And again, his power is only good for a 2B because he shouldn't be a 2B.

It's not difficult to understand what I said. Saying he only has decent power isn't accurate. It's much more than decent. You're not rating that part of his game highly enough. The part that makes me a player some feel we should keep an eye on.

 

Looking at the fact that he has a 6% walk rate and thinking that it can't improve enough to make him a good hitter is my problem here. I think you're overstating that weakness. I see no reason to see why he can't post a respectable BB% to make him a good hitter. He improved in Double A. You can look at it as an anomaly or him improving his plate discipline.

In June and July, Dietrich barely hit .200 before he was sent back to AA. 21 of his 46 hits were for extra bases, so you are right about his power. But, if you hit .214 with 11 walks and 56 whiffs in 215 ABs, major league pitchers are going to get you out most of the time. It's hard to defend a .275 OBP.

The difference between "decent" and "more than decent" power is trivial once you understand that's his only plus attribute and that it's likely to diminish on account of his terrible plate discipline when he faces more major league pitching.

 

As for the walk rate, there is nothing showing improvement outside of the stint in the minors after his demotion this season. His major and minor league track record as a whole shows horrible plate discipline--that easily trumps what he did in a somewhat brief time in AA in 2013. The numbers are rather conclusive on this and there's nothing in the peripheral data indicating that he's likely to improve. If you think that the BB% is going to improve in the majors, you will have to provide more evidence.