then don't trade him. We're talking about a reliever who's a half season removed from being a really good closer for several years running. Work with him to try to recoup his value. He's still young, why toss him away for next to nothing?

 

Can't say I disagree but I'm just trying to show you that you think money is more important to the fish than it is.  They were willing to eat the salary for a fair return.

 

 

Can't say I disagree but I'm just trying to show you that you think money is more important to the fish than it is.  They were willing to eat the salary for a fair return.

 

i guess there's a first time for everything. I'd better go out and buy a lottery ticket today

 

 

i guess there's a first time for everything. I'd better go out and buy a lottery ticket today

 

They also spent money in the off-season, more money in guarantees(total contract value) than any other MLB team.  

 

They also DFA'd Salty and ate his deal.

 

 

But @GablesMarlin and all the other people that think money = wins, how's money working out for Philly?  9th highest payroll, worst record in MLB.

 

 

Was DJ involved in the trade talks in any way? negotiating, etc..

 

 

Was DJ involved in the trade talks in any way? negotiating, etc..

 

He was aware of them, that's it.  He stayed out of the negotiations. 

 

 

The problem I find with this front office is that they love to trade players at their lowest values. Only players I can remember selling high on in recent memory are the Anibal/Infante trade and maybe the Dee Gordon trade (although that's still to be seen in the long run). I hate trading Cishek at this low of value, especially since he was an All Star closer the last few years and was regaining his old magic.

 

It's frustrating to see the issues with the major league squad and know there's nothing coming from the minors any time soon. Trades like this don't help replenish our system and give hope in the coming years. It just gets a salary off the books and creates another need (a relief pitcher who can pick up the 7th/8th inning outside of Capps).

 

I get it. Paying nearly eight digits for a non closer isn't economically viable. But I still see Cishek as a closer and a damn good one. I find it hard to believe that a good GM wouldn't be able to sell a contending team with bullpen problems on giving up a legitimately decent top in the system prospect for somebody who can come in and close a playoff game if needed. There's history to suggest the Marlins like to sell low so they don't have to pay for a decent salary over the last few months of a season.

 

 

I find it hard to believe that a good GM wouldn't be able to sell a contending team with bullpen problems on giving up a legitimately decent top in the system prospect for somebody who can come in and close a playoff game if needed. 

 

No team came close to offering a top in the system prospect for Cishek and that's with his resurgence of late.

 

 

He was aware of them, that's it.  He stayed out of the negotiations. 

 

While this isn't the discussion, I honestly don't know why we'd want to keep him next season outside of not wanting to pay for another salary. He's not a good manager, was an OK general manager, but the moves this offseason have left us with a troubled major league squad and a barren minor league system. He's a major player in why this team should be worried about whether they can truly contend in the next four years. What we have in the majors right now is pretty close to the best team we can possibly field in the next few years. If the best that can do is almost 20 games under .500, there is almost no hope for a playoff team in the future. If there was ever a reasonable time to clear house and bring in an entirely new regime, from general manager to manager to just about everything, it would be now. There's a real, long term problem with this team that can't be fixed with just a few trades.

 

 

No team came close to offering a top in the system prospect for Cishek and that's with his resurgence of late.

 

Then why trade him? You put Cishek out on the trade market, see you can't get anyone under the age of 25 or with any legit pedigree and say to yourself "well, Loria doesn't want to pay his contract so lets take whatever crap we're being offered."

 

You don't make trades just for the sake of making trades. If nobody is offering you anything valuable for a player who has legitimate value in the majors (which Cishek clearly has based on his previous numbers and his resurgence), then why do the trade? The obvious answer is money, money that isn't going to be put back into the team (and when the money is put into the team, it's shown to be used on guys like Garrett Jones, Michael Morse, Mat Latos, etc... just poor allocation of resources at times).

 

 

This is so freaking frustrating! I get that he was expensive to hang on to.. but UGH

 

 

Seems like the Padres are making Shields available and might even eat some salary. I'll be okay with this Cishek salary dump if they get in on Shields, and why not. They desperately need a number 2 to pair with Jose, Shields is signed long term, has performed well this yr and can be gotten for under 20M a yr. The top of the line starters available this winter will all get well over 20M a year and you know the Marlins won't be fishing in those waters. If the Marlins were interested in Shields last off season, no reason to feel any different now. OK with Ozuna being the main guy going back.  And yes, I value Shields considerably over Latos. 

 

 

Seems like the Padres are making Shields available and might even eat some salary. I'll be okay with this Cishek salary dump if they get in on Shields, and why not. They desperately need a number 2 to pair with Jose, Shields is signed long term, has performed well this yr and can be gotten for under 20M a yr. The top of the line starters available this winter will all get well over 20M a year and you know the Marlins won't be fishing in those waters. If the Marlins were interested in Shields last off season, no reason to feel any different now. OK with Ozuna being the main guy going back.  And yes, I value Shields considerably over Latos. 

 

It depends what San Diego wants for him but yes agreed.

 

 

We don't have the prospects to get Shields. We really don't have the prospects to get anyone outside of the Pete Kozma's of the world.

 

 

We don't have the prospects to get Shields. We really don't have the prospects to get anyone outside of the Pete Kozma's of the world.

 

You're wrong

 

 

But [uSER=13640]@GablesMarlin[/uSER] and all the other people that think money = wins, how's money working out for Philly?  9th highest payroll, worst record in MLB.

 

That's unfair. The core of that team won a World Series, and has slowly deteriorated.

 

We've had about 3 cores since our last World Series win, and they've all failed because we've either refused to spend to supplement it, or spent incorrectly to supplement it.

 

 

That's unfair. The core of that team won a World Series, and has slowly deteriorated.

 

We've had about 3 cores since our last World Series win, and they've all failed because we've either refused to spend to supplement it, or spent incorrectly to supplement it.

 

Phillies are 1 example.  I could've chosen other teams that are spending a lot each year and not winning the WS

 

 

I hate to break it to some of you but there's no top prospect coming back for Latos or Haren either and it has nothing to do with us paying their contracts.

 

 

Phillies are 1 example.  I could've chosen other teams that are spending a lot each year and not winning the WS

 

How many teams spend a lot every year and fail to reach the playoffs consistently?

 

 

Teams don't give up top prospects easily and we could get a guy like Shields because of that.  You don't need a top prospect necessarily anymore in deals.

 

 

How many teams spend a lot every year and fail to reach the playoffs consistently?

 

Would making the 1-game WC playoff would be worth it?  I mean if that's your opinion, that's cool but I think that making that 1-game playoff is just as bad as missing the playoffs.

 

 

Deal(s) imminent? Break the story on Twitter dammit!!

 

No, I'm just saying when they happen.

 

 

Could Nicolino or Urena get Shields? I know nothing and am just throwing it out there.

 

Man it'd be hilarious if shields actually ended up here after turning down our money to pitch over there, and he'd be pitching here on less money than if he had accepted us first. lol 

 

 

Lets get Cashner and Shields.

 

give up Ozuna.

 

 

Could Nicolino or Urena get Shields? I know nothing and am just throwing it out there.

 

One would be part of the package I'm sure