February 10, 200422 yr From Sunday's PB Post, "...In an early meeting Saturday, season-ticket holders pressed team President David Samson about the status of a new stadium. Samson said the Marlins will stick to their self-imposed March 15 deadline for acquiring a financial plan concerning construction of a new stadium from Miami-Dade County officials and the city of Miami. But he declined to speculate where a new ballpark would be built and did not make any promises that a deal would get done. "I happen to love playing here at Pro Player," he said. "And I love the fact that we have great memories -- we've won two World Series titles here.... The chances of a new stadium -- if I were you, I would expect the Marlins to be (in South Florida) for a long time to come." Owner Jeffrey Loria said a retractable-roof ballpark is a necessity. "It's enough already with the bad weather and the discomfort," he said. "The fans here deserve to be treated like every other major-league city." " I meant to comment on this yesterday and so in the meantime I've had a chance to read it again. This is just conjecture, no facts support my case, in fact the NFL stand on their franchises having football-only facilities does not bode well for my scenario, so take this for what's it's worth. "I happen to love playing here at ProPlayer" Samson says. And then there's Loria's comment about the fans reaffirming the need for a roof. What that says to me is the county is about to buy PPS and buy-out Wayne's land lease at PPS, and then dome the stadium. This could be the PR coup and economic deal of a lifetime for Wayne who's up to his eyeballs in problems with his football team. He pockets a ton of dough AND he get's to be the hero in saving the Marlins! ("...the team he loves and brought into this world, blah blah blah... he's so happy to have played a part in keeping them here...blah blah blah...he selflessly made the ultimate sacrifice to keep the Marlins in South Florida...blah blah blah"). I was out at PPS today changing my season ticket plan. The parking is there. The highway access is there. The only thing missing is THE ROOF. For those of you who don't know, the county owns the land under PPS. Eventually the whole complex will revert back to the county through some sort of complicated transaction unless someone can figure out how to levitate the stadium off its moorings and move it somewhere else ((j/k). The stadium is already almost 20 years old so at some point the place will need a major facelift. What better time than now for Wayne to structure a deal that a) fixes his costs for football operations, b) gets him off the hook on the $85 million in bonds he is guaranteeing, c) provides him with options from an estate planning standpoint which at his age is something he has to consider and d) as mentioned above, he gets to play "the hero". Here's what I think could happen. Again as way of a disclaimer, this is just me connecting the dots: The county buys out PPS and all the attendant leases for $150 million (or roughly what the Marlins have promised in rent payments over the next 30 years - a bondable funding source). Huizenga is guaranteed his dates and all the parking revenue for Dolphins games for a minimum rent roughly the same as the Marlins (enough to bond out the roof). The Marlins get a big increase in parking and concession revenues and 100% of the box and club seat revenue that they are missing now and so desperately need. While they don't get as much as they could in a perfect world it will be enough to afford a jump to afford a $75-85 million annual payroll and still make a small profit. And when they make it to the playoffs and need those 65,000 seats they'll be there instead of being stuck in a 38,000 seat stadium with no place to put the bandwagon jumpers and their all important dollars. The county takes the naming rights and sells the name of the stadium to finance improvements, an operating slush fund, etc. The $2 million the state now gives WH for bringing the Marlins into existence will now flow to the county through a facilty-management entity. I could go on and on about the intricacies of the deal but it's all boring stuff. Maybe I'm reading more into this than I legtimately should but being out there again today, for the second time in three days, and my fixation with a highway ramping system already in place (at least $50 million to build wherever a new stadium for the Fish is constructed), the parking etc., the ease of access for the entire tri-county area, compelled me to write this. It is clearly the cheaper alternative to building a new baseball-only stadium and it takes the City of Miami out of the equation, which is in their best interest as well as the Marlins. So maybe Samson was just musing when the made his comment. But I think it was a clue, a hint, an insight into what is really happening behind the scenes. Only time will tell.
February 10, 200422 yr Good post. I was surprised to see Samson's thoughts on PPS, but I've always felt the same. The only bummer (excluding the roof) on PPS is Wayne H. but. . .
February 10, 200422 yr Nice synopsis there. I happen to like PPS also. Thing is, has Wayne been trying to sell PPS? I am not sure if I can remember. But hey, if he is, then go for it.
February 10, 200422 yr Excellent post. I hope you are onto something here. Whatever keeps the Fish in this town!
February 10, 200422 yr Good post, but this has been kicked around before (countless times). I have said in the past that H-bomb has more to lose by losing the Marlins as tenants. He knows it and has done a lot of lobbying to prevent any new stadium from being built. Besides, the Marlins as a healthy franchise generating money independently would only spell doom for his Dolphins' claim at entertainment dollars in S. Fl. One way to cirmcumvent all this is to sell JRS (it will NEVER be PPS in my mind) to the county/city and this would free H-bomb of this burden. Problem is, just how do you build a roof on top of JRS without interfering with the Dolphins or Marlins' seasons? I guess you build it during the NFL playoffs - because the Dolphins more than likely wont be using it...
February 10, 200422 yr Nice post. Very interesting scenarios. I wouldnt mind that happening at all but I wish they could improve the site lines down the foul lines a little better if that were to happen.
February 10, 200422 yr Staying at JRS would be better than many other choices. However, as someone previous said, there's the problem of finding the best time to build any roof over it. Then, they'll have to do a study of the building to see whether it can hold that roof in the first place. Meanwhile, the logistics of switching from a football field to a baseball field would remain. Perhaps some company would come up with a new turf that would be much more suited for a multi-purpose facility.
February 10, 200422 yr Author Good post, but this has been kicked around before (countless times). I have said in the past that H-bomb has more to lose by losing the Marlins as tenants. He knows it and has done a lot of lobbying to prevent any new stadium from being built. Besides, the Marlins as a healthy franchise generating money independently would only spell doom for his Dolphins' claim at entertainment dollars in S. Fl. One way to cirmcumvent all this is to sell JRS (it will NEVER be PPS in my mind) to the county/city and this would free H-bomb of this burden. Problem is, just how do you build a roof on top of JRS without interfering with the Dolphins or Marlins' seasons? I guess you build it during the NFL playoffs - because the Dolphins more than likely wont be using it... lol - I know it's been kicked around before - I've been like a broken record when it comes to PPS and the Fish but two things are different now: 1. Wayne now knows he's going to lose the Fish as a tenant (and a revenue stream) one way or the other. That party is over whether the Fish move to Miami and leave South Florida. It's better to do a deal now for an asset (PPS) that has 100 events a year (minimum) than one which has 20. He'll never make the money he makes on the Marlins from all the soccer and circuses and monster truck shows he would try to fill the stadium with absent the Marlins. 2. For the first time ever there is a reasonably hard date - March 15th. Losing the $73 million back to Miami Beach would be the end of the dream of a news stadium for years to come, if not forever. You combine this with some of the positives for Huizenga's holdings and I think a deal could get done to dome (my shorthand for a retractable roof) PPS. It absolutely is nothing more than wild-eyed speculation on my part but it's inconceivale to me that the parties aren't discussing it. I agree with you 100% on the sports/entertainment dollar thing. I don't know that anyone agrees with my theory that one thing WH has to worry about in the construction of new stadium is that sooner or later (5yrs/15yrs??) another group of entrepreneurs (read meglomaniacs) are going to start another professinal football league to compete with the NFL and South Florida will get a franchise and they won't be playing at PPS or the Orange Bowl. The further dilution of the entertainment dollar is a reality the Dolphins will have to face if they don't act now to keep the Marlins "on the reservation".
February 10, 200422 yr From Sunday's PB Post, "...In an early meeting Saturday, season-ticket holders pressed team President David Samson about the status of a new stadium. Samson said the Marlins will stick to their self-imposed March 15 deadline for acquiring a financial plan concerning construction of a new stadium from Miami-Dade County officials and the city of Miami. But he declined to speculate where a new ballpark would be built and did not make any promises that a deal would get done. "I happen to love playing here at Pro Player," he said. "And I love the fact that we have great memories -- we've won two World Series titles here.... The chances of a new stadium -- if I were you, I would expect the Marlins to be (in South Florida) for a long time to come." Owner Jeffrey Loria said a retractable-roof ballpark is a necessity. "It's enough already with the bad weather and the discomfort," he said. "The fans here deserve to be treated like every other major-league city." " david samson has said in the past that one of the reasons he hadn't publicly pushed for a new stadium was because he was wary of "disparaging the venue," since it is the venue (PPS) that makes the team money for now. he seemed to emphasize that point in the article i had read, so my personal opinion is that this is his way of publicly pushing for a new stadium while at the same time trying to tell the public "PPS is good, too." in essence, you can't sell tickets if you tell the public a new stadium is needed because the current one is no good, so i think he's just trying to soften the blow to the current venue while still campaigning for a new stadium. he can't just come out and say PPS is no good.
February 10, 200422 yr Marlins2003, I have spent quite a bit of time considering the same option....and it is very attractive for all of the reasons you mentioned. But listening to Sampson on Saturday left me believing that the only option they are pursuing at the moment is a new ballpark. He spoke of getting the fans right down near the field so they could feel the excitement. He spoke of having good site lines. He spoke of having the kind of atmosphere that only a new baseball facility would provide. He firmly stated that March 15 is a non-negotiable deadline (because county dollars are tied to that date). He spoke of not considering any other options because if you plan to fail...you will. While Sampson spoke of having a new ballpark anywhere from Stuart to Key Largo, I believe that was really directed at putting the park where the entire fan base would have access. Now if for some reason the new stadium does not work out.....then I could see the FO pursuing your option before they make the final determination to find another city.
February 10, 200422 yr Author Marlins2003, I have spent quite a bit of time considering the same option....and it is very attractive for all of the reasons you mentioned. But listening to Sampson on Saturday left me believing that the only option they are pursuing at the moment is a new ballpark. He spoke of getting the fans right down near the field so they could feel the excitement. He spoke of having good site lines. He spoke of having the kind of atmosphere that only a new baseball facility would provide. He firmly stated that March 15 is a non-negotiable deadline (because county dollars are tied to that date). He spoke of not considering any other options because if you plan to fail...you will. While Sampson spoke of having a new ballpark anywhere from Stuart to Key Largo, I believe that was really directed at putting the park where the entire fan base would have access. Now if for some reason the new stadium does not work out.....then I could see the FO pursuing your option before they make the final determination to find another city. Like I said, it's idle speculation my part. Just passing the time 'til spring training starts.
February 10, 200422 yr Good post, but this has been kicked around before (countless times). I have said in the past that H-bomb has more to lose by losing the Marlins as tenants. He knows it and has done a lot of lobbying to prevent any new stadium from being built. Besides, the Marlins as a healthy franchise generating money independently would only spell doom for his Dolphins' claim at entertainment dollars in S. Fl. One way to cirmcumvent all this is to sell JRS (it will NEVER be PPS in my mind) to the county/city and this would free H-bomb of this burden. Problem is, just how do you build a roof on top of JRS without interfering with the Dolphins or Marlins' seasons? I guess you build it during the NFL playoffs - because the Dolphins more than likely wont be using it... lol - I know it's been kicked around before - I've been like a broken record when it comes to PPS and the Fish but two things are different now: 1. Wayne now knows he's going to lose the Fish as a tenant (and a revenue stream) one way or the other. That party is over whether the Fish move to Miami and leave South Florida. It's better to do a deal now for an asset (PPS) that has 100 events a year (minimum) than one which has 20. He'll never make the money he makes on the Marlins from all the soccer and circuses and monster truck shows he would try to fill the stadium with absent the Marlins. 2. For the first time ever there is a reasonably hard date - March 15th. Losing the $73 million back to Miami Beach would be the end of the dream of a news stadium for years to come, if not forever. You combine this with some of the positives for Huizenga's holdings and I think a deal could get done to dome (my shorthand for a retractable roof) PPS. It absolutely is nothing more than wild-eyed speculation on my part but it's inconceivale to me that the parties aren't discussing it. I agree with you 100% on the sports/entertainment dollar thing. I don't know that anyone agrees with my theory that one thing WH has to worry about in the construction of new stadium is that sooner or later (5yrs/15yrs??) another group of entrepreneurs (read meglomaniacs) are going to start another professinal football league to compete with the NFL and South Florida will get a franchise and they won't be playing at PPS or the Orange Bowl. The further dilution of the entertainment dollar is a reality the Dolphins will have to face if they don't act now to keep the Marlins "on the reservation". OK, I like the post, I like the thought, but I have to put it at a little bit more of a long-shot than us getting Maddux. The only way I see it happening is if we pay for the roof/renovations to the Pro, and Wayne is able to keep a significant chunk of the luxury box revenue. It's going to be more of a "you pay for it all, and I'll give you a better lease," and that's not something I see the Marlins wanting a part of. I like the Pro, and I think the location is just about as central as you can get, but I don't see any real way we could stay. Samson stressed how much he liked baseball only facilities because of the "intimacy" of the set-up...
February 10, 200422 yr I have thought of a similar scenario before with some variation. Remember, according to Wayne the luxury box and club seating revenue (for the marlins and Dolphins) is pledged to the bond holders on approximately $100 million of debt on the stadium. If the County paid off the debt Wayne and the Marlins could get the revenue from the club seating and sky boxes. In addition, wayne could give the marlins the parking revenue as a quid pro quo for gaining the additional Dolphin revenue. Wayne continues to own the stadium and the marlins gain some of the revenue they desire. Is this ideal? Hell no!! But is it realistic in this economic atmosphere? You bet! It truly is a compromise. It Limits the public funding and Loria saves the $127 he would need to commit to the original stadium plan announced during the World series It probably is too logical to happen.
February 10, 200422 yr In the same vein, I wonder if an option to build a new stadium next to JRS has been discussed - much like the set up for the OB scenario.
February 10, 200422 yr Author In the same vein, I wonder if an option to build a new stadium next to JRS has been discussed - much like the set up for the OB scenario. I posted a lengthy comment on building on the easternmost satellite lot at PPS (between the Florida Turnpike and the exit ramp) so time ago including site maps etc. But why reinvent the wheel? I've really changed my opinion completely on building a second stadium at the site. When you start factoring in parking garages that would have to built to replace the existing parking on the site that would be needed to offset what has been lost with a second stadium footprint, costs go through the roof (no pun intended).
February 10, 200422 yr PPS sucks as a baseball stadium. Plain out sucks!! However if this is the only option that is available, then I guess we are going to have to live with it if we want to see Marlins baseball continue in South Florida.
February 10, 200422 yr Author PPS sucks as a baseball stadium. Plain out sucks!! However if this is the only option that is available, then I guess we are going to have to live with it if we want to see Marlins baseball continue in South Florida. The only parts of the stadium that bothers me from baseball standpoint are the terrace boxes beyond first and third bases to the foul poles. The seats there face the outfield and its the reason I switched my season tickets from the 141 to the first row of the upper deck (theres still lots of seats in the first five rows available there, 454,455,456 on the third base side and 444,445,446 on the first base side. If anyone is considering the weekend 41 game plans they ought to check them out. The view of the game is great! I chose the 454 because I wanted to see into the Marlins dugout during the game and better see the bullpen). This is all such speculation it's hardly worth the time or energy but I assume that if the Fish do land there permenantly something will be done to modify some of the problematic seating.
February 10, 200422 yr Author I like PPS but it should be used for dolphin games. Marlins can't be there. Then where should they be?
February 10, 200422 yr Author albuquerque You get'em for one Jburque but you have to give them back (j/k)
February 10, 200422 yr I like PPS but it should be used for dolphin games. Marlins can't be there. Then where should they be? IN a new stadium
February 10, 200422 yr I like PPS but it should be used for dolphin games. Marlins can't be there. Then where should they be? IN a new stadium And if they cant get a new stadium?
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